Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Decware Audio Forums
10/02/14 at 09:46:48


Pages: 1 2 3 4 
Send Topic Print
TORII SQ (Read 7845 times)
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 7583
Re: TORII SQ
Reply #45 - 08/28/11 at 16:41:54
 
I'm not convinced these are rare Stone. I just think there are few audio applications out there for online tube specialists to warrant stocking a lot, cryo'ing them, etc. Everytime I look on ebay they're out there NOS and not expensive. I got five pairs of three of the tube types for a total of forty dollars, and three of the five pairs were RCA, two were GE.

I also think that Steve ships the amps with a variety of different brands or at least others here have reported theirs came with different brands than mine did. Mine came with RCA OA3 tubes and Raytheon OC2 tubes.

I would recommend looking into OB3, OC3 and OD3 tubes. I've used the first two types and they do offer different sounds with the amp . . . I ended up pretty much preferring the OA3 type, but we're all differfent, our speakers are different, etc.
Back to top
 
 

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 7583
Re: TORII SQ
Reply #46 - 08/28/11 at 17:06:12
 
All good points will, and there is also as I see it two different factors in play (not to mention the rooms we all use which are huge factors).

One is speakers. Although I haven't put my HR-1s back in the system recently, I know that I would probably end up with a preference for a different tube in one of the positions. As you note each of the tube positions is an influence on the others, and so each combination can yield different sound. Which can be a great thing, or a maddening thing. I also think the same tube complements will yield differing sound with differing speakers.

In the past this sort of thing led me to go mad swapping tubes and lose a perspective on the music listening experience. I'm trying not to move into that syndrome again! Smiley

The second factor is I think intent. My intent is to find a tube complement that allows me to reach into my shelves (in either of three rooms I have shelves!) of cds and pull a disc out, pop it in, and have a great listening experience. I have lots of great sounding discs, but far more just plain old mediocre (to be honest) sounding recordings, and if I have a tube complement which makes the great ones sound fantastic, the others just don't sound as well as they could. It's hard to describe what the best complement for my purposes sounds like, but I can't go too far into the analytical and detailed side, and "warm" is probably my safest choice for the sonic output of the majority of the discs I spin. And that is even more the case with the HR-1 speakers, which are more conventionally revealing than the ERRs.

So in a large sense I feel that all we can really say is "I really like the coke bottle style OB3 in my system and with my musical choices, and you may or may not." Which is frustrating in a way; I think it would be comforting to have more comformity and "absolute" results to share.
Back to top
 
 

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
  IP Logged
Pale Rider
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1272
Re: TORII SQ
Reply #47 - 08/28/11 at 17:27:52
 
Stone, I have had good luck finding my various NOS voltage regulators, including both bottle and straight versions on fleabay.
Back to top
 
 

Decware: Ultra | Torii MKIII [2] | SE84ZS | Taboo MkIII Sources: Synology 1812+ | Baetis Revolution | PWD DAC MKII | Lumin Network Player | Mytek 192 | Oppo 105 DSP: DEQX Mate | Emotiva Outputs: ERR [6] + Servo Subs | LCD-2 & other cans
  IP Logged
Pale Rider
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1272
Re: TORII SQ
Reply #48 - 08/28/11 at 17:46:01
 
Lon said:
Quote:
So in a large sense I feel that all we can really say is "I really like the coke bottle style OB3 in my system and with my musical choices, and you may or may not." Which is frustrating in a way; I think it would be comforting to have more comformity and "absolute" results to share.


Spot on. The "chemist" in me (the one who brewed beer all-grain, ranched his own yeast, used microprocessors to control brewing and lagering temps, and multiple refractometers, etc., and does his espresso similarly), desires some objectivity, so that as we share our experiences across thousands of miles, we actually know what each other is experiencing. But with all the things we cannot factor out (e.g., room shape, size, treatment, let alone the unknowable listener's bias), it may not be possible. On top of that, I am not at all convinced we can even get to consistency among a lot of these tubes. While I am pretty set in my taste for 1960s RCA black plate rectifiers (and I have stockpiled enough to last two more generations), I am not unhappy with the NOS Raytheons, Mullards, and Svetlanas I have. I continue to enjoy the Shuguangs in my Toriis, but I have stocked JJs (6CA7) for the future. (In some respects, I am almost convinced the Hazen circuit is more responsible for the SQ than the tube identity.)

It's almost like people comparing their wine preferences with no point of commonality.
Back to top
 
 

Decware: Ultra | Torii MKIII [2] | SE84ZS | Taboo MkIII Sources: Synology 1812+ | Baetis Revolution | PWD DAC MKII | Lumin Network Player | Mytek 192 | Oppo 105 DSP: DEQX Mate | Emotiva Outputs: ERR [6] + Servo Subs | LCD-2 & other cans
  IP Logged
will
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1210
Re: TORII SQ
Reply #49 - 08/29/11 at 02:09:25
 
Yep, lots of variables, and no way to get "absolute" comparisons or interpretations about something like sound considering various interpretations of semantics and tastes. And system and room is huge, but with the context of a system/room, adjectives appropriate to the particular values of what we are talking about, and comparisons, our common language can be useful at getting useful impressions across. This makes me think. It always seems to help me when folks list their system, and in the context of this forum, though still subjective, it could be cool to have a little room info or impressions in our forum system signatures. Hmmm.

Anyway, if we say "I like this" and that is all we have, it does not mean a whole lot. But with baseline context, attempts at good audio descriptors, and with comparisons of knowns, it may not be perfect, but it can be richer and easier to interpret toward personal ends.

For example, Lon has a lot of posts here that give a sense of his objectives, expectations, tastes and system. From this background calling the RCA OA3-ST "tart and dry" compared to the RCA OA3 straight means something, and to me was actually sort of revelatory. Especially since my idea of an RCA OA3 had until recently been only a 50s coke bottle shape, with no knowledge that the straight sided NOS RCA OA3 even existed. So when Lon talked about a RCA OA3, and since mine and his both came with the Torii, I assumed we were talking about roughly the same tube.

But back to the explanation thing. If we are familiar with Lon's preferences and system, his saying only "I like it better" is notably less information than the above, but still gives information do to extensive context. But without his system list and a background knowledge of what he likes, wants, and what he gets from his system, "I like it" means well, not much.

The thing in this thread I find particularly interesting is the direct comparison of these specific tube shapes NOS RCA to RCA, and it would tell even more if we knew vintage, and perhaps a few more descriptors, but to me, this comparison is quite useful and I would like to find some straight side RAC OA3s.

Smiley
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 08/29/11 at 02:53:22 by will »  

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
  IP Logged
will
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1210
Re: TORII SQ
Reply #50 - 08/29/11 at 02:19:57
 
Pale, I think the Hazen Grid mod is part of the context and it may be that it is more important than tube choices, but each of the six sets of power tubes I have (sick I know) has a distinctly different signature in terms of audio head perspectives! And as hard as I try, my ignorance of the not-so-new acronym language prevails. What is SQ?

Wink
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 08/29/11 at 02:21:02 by will »  

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 7583
Re: TORII SQ
Reply #51 - 08/29/11 at 03:19:58
 
"SQ" I think we've been using on this thread to mean "sound quality."

I have a hard time figuring out what the Grid Mod does to the sound as I don't have a control for comparison. I have two Torris with the mod, and two other EL34 amps (Integrated and SE34 Monoblocks) without them. They sound different, but then two are Push Pull and two are Single Ended as well, so many variables.

Still seems to me that the mod is an amazing improvement that makes a big difference. But like will, I hear clear differences in the "signature" of power tubes in the Torii.  I've been very familiar with Winged Cs, and when I've had "Svetlana" tubes in it clearly has a different sound, and when I have had cryo'd Tungsol reissue tubes in they also sound differently. (I use the Tungsol reissues in my Torii Mk II predominantly; I prefer the Winged Cs in my Mk III.)

I have the impression that tube changes have an even bigger effect in the Integrated. When I change any tubes there, input, output, rectifier, there is a strong influence on the total sound output. I use cryo'd Mullard reissue output tubes there, I really like those; at some point I may try a quartet in the Mk III. Not sure if that is because there is no Grid Mod, or the fact that it's an even simpler circuit, or just my imagination. Anyway, I'm really enjoying the Integrated currently in my second system, where I don't need the power of the Torii amp. There's something about the SET "sound". . . not as precise as the Torii, but with just a touch of romance.
Back to top
 
 

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
  IP Logged
will
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1210
Re: TORII SQ
Reply #52 - 08/29/11 at 03:37:17
 
Ah sound quality! I know what you mean about the SE thing. I miss my SE34I2+. It had the mod. From your integrated without the mod description..."not as precise and the Torii, but with a touch of romance."....if memory serves me, I suspect that the Hazen Grid mod in your integrated would provide more Torii-like precision while retaining that sweet open touch of romance the integrated has. I recall it sounding eerily open, clarified and liquid without sounding hard in the least.
Back to top
 
 

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 7583
Re: TORII SQ
Reply #53 - 08/29/11 at 03:42:50
 
Hmmm. . . probably serves me better then without the Mod; I actually think it works very well with most recordings this way. Especially those my girlfriend loves to listen to, I've learned to like the music, but not the more mainstream pop production and recorded sound. Still, the Integrated manages to bring out a lot from Marc Anthony and Andres Bocelli cds.
Back to top
 
 

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
  IP Logged
stone_of_tone
Seasoned Member
****


Listen Often/Listen
Deep

Posts: 831
Re: TORII SQ
Reply #54 - 08/30/11 at 05:41:00
 
Thanks Lon & PR. Your right, I just need to search for them and find/they are out there.  

Stone of Tone
Back to top
 
 

Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro
Audio Magic Mystic Reference I2S
Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
Kimber Select 3033
Polk Audio LS-90
Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
360 degree Rm Treats
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 
Send Topic Print