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TORII SQ (Read 8164 times)
kana813
Ex Member



Re: TORII SQ
Reply #15 - 07/18/11 at 17:52:39
 
Two questions for TORII users:

When you have the amp's gain turned up and no signal going into the inputs, do have any noise/hum coming from your speakers?

Do your power transformer(the ones in the middle of the amp) run hot?
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will
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Re: TORII SQ
Reply #16 - 07/18/11 at 18:23:42
 
Lon, Great post on your power journey and impressions! Thanks.

I agree totally that good power is critical since everything downstream is clarified and articulated by it. I agree that the progressive importance is big too, the power determining whether something shows its real sound or not. But man.........I may have started with OK power, but if had to choose one or the other, I still would probably choose a great selection of tubes. I would hate to be put in a one-or-the-other position though. Seems like everything useful is precious in the mix toward the whole.

My AC treatment is a blend too, and though I have no comparators, I hear the right stuff from it. Improved definition, detail and micro detail and all the results from this....ambience, body, texture, clarified weight, spaciousness, blackness, articulate sound stage etc.

I chose mine little by little for price/performance and then based on playing around. The Brickwall for Audio suppressor/filter, I got because it was supposed to not have a sound while offering good filtering and suppression that does nothing to the power flow. I agreed at the time...cleaner without dynamic sacrifice or a notable signature itself. Then a few Alan Maher Infinity (boxes of rocks) got me onto his stuff and after hearing them I got more, liking the further clarity, definition, spaciousness and dynamics they brought. They are crystal loaded boxes that I think act as semiconductors drawing off power noise. At this point I have a pile of them using mostly quartz (Infinity-neutral but some amethyst (Signature-pretty neutral but with upper mid emphasis). They are now on the house mains in, teh audio circuit breaker, on outlets with noisy appliances, on my hospital grade Audio receptacle, and attached to the ends of power cables. I also got a simple EMI filter circuit/wall wart he made that is supposed to cancel line and room EMI, and sound-wise does some impressive work for 85 dollars or so. I have only used his inexpensive filters, but I really like the stuff. Also perhaps in the power area, in that putting out a fundamental of 7.83 Hz would effect everything in proximity, I use a Kemp Schumann Resonator that I find good toward bringing out yet more micro clarification, solidity, openness and natural timber to the sound.

My power cables are one of Alan Maher's last generation models, and DIY from VHAudio and Cryoparts.

I really like the spaciousness and Not-Sound of this power setup. And I really like the signature variation of various power cables for tuning the system. But I must say that I was fascinated by yours and Rale Ryders amazement over the PS Power Plant Premiers and had Music Direct still had some B-stocks, I would have had to try one. I love that Music Direct still stands behind their choices enough to offer trials for free. But had you guys not gotten so worked up over the Power Plant, I would not have thought....Hmmm, I wonder what I can do to get my power better, so I am good. But I would love to hear one dammit.

Thanks for bringing up the critical foundation power provides for these super simple amps, and what it does with tubes.
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Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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Lon
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Re: TORII SQ
Reply #17 - 07/18/11 at 18:24:22
 
Yes, there's a hum when audible from about 10 inches and closer to the speaker. Not audible beyond that.

Yes, I'd say those transformers run hot. Wouldn't want to touch one for more than a few seconds.
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DVD-A1UDCI, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Stradivarius, Ultra Linear+Evo ICs, Iso-Pods,Mapleshade:Double Heiix Plus,Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Lon
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"Love without
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worthless!"
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Re: TORII SQ
Reply #18 - 07/18/11 at 18:34:22
 
Yeah will, there's more than one way to skin a cat, and also if your power coming in is fairly clean there is less needed to improve it.

My power coming in sucks, and regeneration is really effective in my case.

I'd say the biggest changes are an apparent mellower, richer sound and much more discernible dynamic contrasts. And these are very important aspects for me, so they're really appreciated. And they are aspects I've had a harder time achieving with tube-rolling and in a hit or miss manner when I have.

Sure, I love having my RCA 5U4Gs and my cryo'd 6N1P tubes, but I also must say tht I'd probably choose the stock tubes and clean power if shoved into the corner and forced to choose. But I'd rather have both.

I didn't want to spend the money on the Premier, but I'm glad I did! I'm really happy with the improvement. Sounds as if you have your power situation in control.
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DVD-A1UDCI, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Stradivarius, Ultra Linear+Evo ICs, Iso-Pods,Mapleshade:Double Heiix Plus,Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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kana813
Ex Member



Re: TORII SQ
Reply #19 - 07/18/11 at 18:36:55
 
Lon,

Thanks for the fast response.

I've owned lots of tube amps, and I don't remember the power transformers running this hot.


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Lon
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Re: TORII SQ
Reply #20 - 07/18/11 at 18:42:30
 
I have an EICO HF81 from '59 that I haven't run for years but it used to run hot like this, for years and years. The Torri has been running a while now, I don't think it presents a problem, or will be a problem in the long term.
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DVD-A1UDCI, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Stradivarius, Ultra Linear+Evo ICs, Iso-Pods,Mapleshade:Double Heiix Plus,Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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will
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Re: TORII SQ
Reply #21 - 07/18/11 at 18:43:37
 
Kana, I just tried and I DO get a relatively nasty hum with no inputs plugged in and the volume up. But there is very, very little hum with the interconnects plugged in, so presumably, whatever is up with my ground is resolved with the inputs plugged in. No grounds are lifted. Odd, but since the system is very quiet as I use it, I have not explored the ground issues. I do not have an isolated circuit for my audio and have not checked the receptacle/wire connections or circuit breaker connections for years. I will now.

Oh yeah, those center transformers are hotter.
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« Last Edit: 07/18/11 at 18:44:32 by will »  

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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kana813
Ex Member



Re: TORII SQ
Reply #22 - 07/18/11 at 19:16:50
 
Will & Lon,

It's disappointing to read that you're both getting some hum.

From the TORII's website description:

"It's at home with most hi-fi speakers and equally poised with high efficiency speakers due in part to it's complete lack of noise or hum."



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Lon
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"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 7720
Re: TORII SQ
Reply #23 - 07/18/11 at 19:20:44
 
Well, it's never been a problem for me at all. I can't hear it from more than ten inches away.

Maybe it's our substitute tubes. Smiley

I'm not in the least disappointed myself.
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DVD-A1UDCI, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Stradivarius, Ultra Linear+Evo ICs, Iso-Pods,Mapleshade:Double Heiix Plus,Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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kana813
Ex Member



Re: TORII SQ
Reply #24 - 07/18/11 at 19:38:44
 
Lon,

I have stock tubes and I'm getting hum even with the ground pin floated.

Based on the claim of a "complete lack of noise or hum," I'm disappointed.
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Lon
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Posts: 7720
Re: TORII SQ
Reply #25 - 07/18/11 at 19:59:50
 
I can understand that.

I didn't remember reading that when I got mine. It could still be one of the tubes.

I just am so happy with the sound that I don't care if there's that smidgeon of hum.
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DVD-A1UDCI, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Stradivarius, Ultra Linear+Evo ICs, Iso-Pods,Mapleshade:Double Heiix Plus,Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Pale Rider
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Re: TORII SQ
Reply #26 - 07/18/11 at 20:29:21
 
kana is right about the claim. Here it is from the web page:

Quote:
It's at home with most hi-fi speakers and equally poised with high efficiency speakers due in part to it's complete lack of noise or hum.  


Now, I haven't heard any hum out of mine, but y'all already know I am not actually listening to mine other than to make sure it is cycling on and off and playing music in a drawer. I believe it is asserted for more than just the Torii as well. On the Taboo page, there is a reference to "ultra low noise and hum," which has proved to be true for me.
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Decware: Ultra | Torii MKIII [2] | SE84ZS | Taboo MkIII Sources: Synology 1812+ | Baetis Revolution | PWD DAC MKII | Lumin Network Player | Mytek 192 | Oppo 105 DSP: DEQX Mate | Emotiva Outputs: ERR [6] + Servo Subs | LCD-2 & other cans
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Lon
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"Love without
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worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 7720
Re: TORII SQ
Reply #27 - 07/18/11 at 20:35:48
 
I certainly wasn't doubting the claim. When I bought mine it had an entirely different page on the website. I am NOT a fan of the current page, I've seen it turn away people interested actually. It just comes on too strong with big claims and seems rather. . pedestrian.
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« Last Edit: 07/18/11 at 20:41:34 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DVD-A1UDCI, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Stradivarius, Ultra Linear+Evo ICs, Iso-Pods,Mapleshade:Double Heiix Plus,Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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will
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Re: TORII SQ
Reply #28 - 07/18/11 at 21:32:54
 
Kana, I totally get your discouragement. The questions become, where is the hum coming from; can one definitively conclude that because other amps have been hum free, that the Torii is the culprit; and what are the solutions. It could well be the amp, but I suppose it is possible that the amp's super simple design could use your power in ways that reveal problems that were not previously brought out??? Admittedly, I am no expert on Ground issues, but I seem to recall someone with a difficult hum finally switching the circuit to the other buss of the Circuit Panel and it was solved. Obscure, but it makes me wonder, it may be that these amps in their simplicity need particularly good ground/circuits to be "dead quiet." Or maybe not. I guess the best way to get down to the details would be to call Steve and see if you can troubleshoot it together.

I just did more tests. Both interconnect sets hooked up, volume full up, the Torii input switch set to the interconnects of the DAC I have the Mac Mini set for output to.....and this is almost "dead quiet" with a very, very light hum only discernible with my ear right at the driver. Then I set the input switch to the other DAC NOT set for Mini output, and there is a hum that I can hear up to 18" from the drivers. Set the Mini to that DAC, and it is for all intents and purpose Hum free again.

I can only assume that I am gathering a better ground as I go. The
Torii alone with no interconnects and hum. Then by connecting it to other components...problem nearly solved. And finally, presumably by adding the ground from the USB cable to the Mini????? solved. Since my whole system is on the same outlet, all this makes it look to me like I need to look at getting a better/more ground connection to the Torii without the connection to the other components.

But even though it is a problem, it is a nonissue in practical use since there is no discernible hum in use. But I am no expert, and I would be interested if someone can explain this to me.
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« Last Edit: 07/18/11 at 21:36:46 by will »  

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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Pale Rider
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Re: TORII SQ
Reply #29 - 07/18/11 at 22:19:06
 
Lon, I think you are correct about the current page. There is almost "too much" there, and there is no question that it becomes its own flame-bait on other sites when people who might never even have heard a Decware amp or speaker decide to start taking pot shots. Under promise, over deliver.
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Decware: Ultra | Torii MKIII [2] | SE84ZS | Taboo MkIII Sources: Synology 1812+ | Baetis Revolution | PWD DAC MKII | Lumin Network Player | Mytek 192 | Oppo 105 DSP: DEQX Mate | Emotiva Outputs: ERR [6] + Servo Subs | LCD-2 & other cans
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