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Which input tube for a splash of seduction? (Read 35044 times)
kana813
Ex Member



Re: Which input tube for a splash of seduction?
Reply #90 - 07/22/11 at 06:57:33
 
Gopher,

I'm surprised that your speaker cables make that big a difference.

When I look at speaker cables, I can't figure out why they cost as much or more than my amp.

I'm currently using shotgun runs of these:

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?cablspkr&1314681047

which are similar to the ZEN STYX.

***
Steve called me today about my hum issues (solved).

He said rolling the input tubes will make the most difference.





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Pale Rider
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Posts: 1272
Re: Which input tube for a splash of seduction?
Reply #91 - 07/22/11 at 14:58:19
 
Those are interesting cables over on Audiogon kana. If I didn't already have my ZenStyx on order, I would give those a try. They're in the right price range. I am willing to pay for good stuff, and the Decware cords, cables, & ICs are in that price spot that makes sense to me. Some of the prices for cables these days are just mind-boggling.
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Decware: Ultra | Torii MKIII [2] | SE84ZS | Taboo MkIII Sources: Synology 1812+ | Baetis Revolution | PWD DAC MKII | Lumin Network Player | Mytek 192 | Oppo 105 DSP: DEQX Mate | Emotiva Outputs: ERR [6] + Servo Subs | LCD-2 & other cans
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Gopher
Senior Member
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Posts: 96
Re: Which input tube for a splash of seduction?
Reply #92 - 07/24/11 at 02:34:42
 
I pulled my Torii and tried it at a buddy's house that has a fully treated room, and Daedlus Ullysses speakers and it held its own against a Shindo Auregies-L/TubeGuru F2a push pull mono setup.  

Ultimately the Shindo/TG had a little more body and better low end impact and a much bigger stage then the Torii.  This was strange to me as the Torii has the best harmonic development and bass I've ever heard with my speakers.  I did wonder if his crossover was part of the issue vs. my cross-less speakers.

I also was surprised to find, at least in his rig, we both preferred NOT having the Shindo in the chain...  Cleaner, more liquid sound direct from his tricked out Tranquility SE DAC.

I think this amp may benefit from a pre, but the urgency of my quest for one is significantly lessened--the Torii handled itself WELL.

Ohh, and we both felt the same way about the OA3s.  They were instant losers as soon as plugged in.  I will do my due diligence and try to burn them in some, but I dont' think they're for me.

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will
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Re: Which input tube for a splash of seduction?
Reply #93 - 07/24/11 at 02:54:37
 
Interesting observations Gopher. Not suggesting this is the case, but I wonder if with the Torii, the sound stage, body and low end in your friend's rig might have been different had the room/speaker placement been tuned to the Torii rather than the Shindo/TG.

And what OA3 do you have? Were the problems shillness and harshness again? I get that OA3s may not be for you, as most of the time they are not for me either. But your thing may be as much a lack of synergy as anything else with the nationals and Shuguangs. In my general experience, with the RCA coke bottle OA3s I have, for me, perhaps the most notable change in my system is more body and bass.
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« Last Edit: 07/24/11 at 02:55:38 by will »  

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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Gopher
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Posts: 96
Re: Which input tube for a splash of seduction?
Reply #94 - 07/24/11 at 04:21:01
 
Will,

These are the OA3:  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280705099877&ssPageName=ADME:...

Perhaps they are just a garbage make and/or need burn in.  I was actually excited to throw them in as we were wanting for a touch more body and bass in my buddy's rig, but that is not what we got when we swapped 'em.

I'm not sure his speakers have changed their positioning in the last 4 amps my buddy has owned, but I think he's stayed pretty consistent with Sablon audio cables.  Today we did introduce some of my Wywires into the mix and found ourselves preferring mixes of both cables to only one or the other which is a major praise for the Sablon as my Wywires are exquisite

In addition his room treatments are pretty comprehensive, though done without measurements.  He's got a pretty  rectangular room and has GIK all around (this is the friend I shared the big used score with).   All reflection points are treated and he's experimenting with sprinkling in some diffusiors.
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will
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Re: Which input tube for a splash of seduction?
Reply #95 - 07/24/11 at 06:12:04
 
Yes, definitely a very different looking tube. I wonder if burn in would help as much as it sounds like they need. Mine look more like this http://www.blujay.com/item/RCA-0A3-VR-75-Vacuum-Tube-Voltage-Regulator-8130100-1...

Sounds like some fun exploring!
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Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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Gopher
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Posts: 96
Re: Which input tube for a splash of seduction?
Reply #96 - 07/24/11 at 20:36:09
 
If you want to experiment, I'll toss you a couple on me.  Chances are I won't be using any of the six anyway at this rate.
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Lon
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"Love without
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Posts: 7494
Re: Which input tube for a splash of seduction?
Reply #97 - 07/24/11 at 21:48:32
 
You two have inspired me to try some rolling on that tube type. I ordered a pair of GE OA3s, and bid on a batch that have RCA OA3s, GE OB3s and RCA OC3 pairs. May not win that, I'm not going to pay a lot.

Gopher, those you have look oddly like those I have stock from Steve.
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« Last Edit: 07/24/11 at 21:49:09 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Lon
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"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 7494
Re: Which input tube for a splash of seduction?
Reply #98 - 07/25/11 at 01:32:16
 
Ah ha, won the tubes on ebay, 7 tubes for 18 dollars total. Got lucky.
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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will
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Posts: 1204
Re: Which input tube for a splash of seduction?
Reply #99 - 07/25/11 at 01:34:35
 
Careful Lon! Wink

I will be interested if you find something you like! Please keep us informed!


Gopher, If you are up for sending a couple, it might be interesting to see how I respond to the same tube in a different setting/system, though you proved the new ones incompatible in yours and your buddy's. This is all so subjective and made weirder by semantics....it could be an interesting experiment though.

How are you feeling about the National 7DJ8s and RCA 5U4G-STs these days? I got some Mullard 6922 pulls from partsconexion and am liking them with some power tubes quite a bit.
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Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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Lon
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"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 7494
Re: Which input tube for a splash of seduction?
Reply #100 - 07/25/11 at 01:39:33
 
I know will, I'm being very wary. This time if I go crazy tube-rolling I might have to finally go on psych meds! Cheesy

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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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will
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Re: Which input tube for a splash of seduction?
Reply #101 - 07/25/11 at 01:44:55
 
Ah, I bet you can take it! Cool It will be interesting!
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« Last Edit: 07/25/11 at 01:45:33 by will »  

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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datman
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Re: Which input tube for a splash of seduction?
Reply #102 - 07/25/11 at 02:44:35
 
Just to further confuse the situation, I have some tube rolling news. I had recently purchased a matched quad of JJ 6CA7's as a backup for my Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z's. On a whim last night I substituted the JJ's for the Shuguang's. The difference was NOT subtile. The brand new JJ's have MUCH deeper,  more expressive bass. The highs are still a little rough but they are THERE. Not reticent or subdued but THERE. Now I am upset that I can't fold time and just jump through the breakin process.

Just to be clear, the JJ 6CA7's are NOT EL34's in a different bottle. They are a different tube. However, they are electrically identical to the EL34 and are a direct replacement. The pinouts are the same for both so the Hazen Grid mod applies. As for quality, on visual inspection the JJ tubes appear to be well made. After 15 hours iof use, nothing has self destructed.
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Troii III; Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE; Sonore Signature Series Music Server; Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2; ExactPower EP15A; Musical Affairs Grand Crescendo SAG Speakers
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kana813
Ex Member



Re: Which input tube for a splash of seduction?
Reply #103 - 07/25/11 at 04:19:02
 
Very interesting.

My TORII came with JJ EL 34s that have a singe halo getter. Yes, The JJ 6CA7s are different tubes, they have dual getters like the classic Mullards.

The highs on the JJ EL 34s smoothed out after 30 hours and the bass has continued to improve.

datman, what regulator tubes are you using?

PS- I've included my current tube set in my signature. Maybe we can all
include this info.

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« Last Edit: 07/25/11 at 06:44:34 by kana813 »  
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datman
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Posts: 22
Re: Which input tube for a splash of seduction?
Reply #104 - 07/25/11 at 04:47:25
 
I am using SED 5U4G blakplate regulators. I still have the original RCA 0A3's in place. I subsequently did some experimenting with the 0C2's.

I tried the 0A2 and found it made my system sound very dull. Not restriced in the highs but just dull. The 0B2's are much better than the 0A2's. While the 0A2's sounded dull and lifeless, the 0B2's had a more extended presentation.

It took a couple of days to find out the 0B2's flattened the sound. The soundstage simply disappeared. In replacing the 0C2's I found one of them to be defective. I purchased a new set and installed them. The sound now be best described as juicy.

Juicy as is in wet and lucid not syrupy or sugar coated. There is now an "aliveness" to the sound that has not been there like this before. If you happen to download the 24/96 recording of Ella and Louis from HDTracks and play "You Can't Take That Away From Me", you will know what I mean. It is more than just "you are there". There is now a real sense of palpability, that just reach out and touch sensation.

I am certain something will change and everything will have to be adjusted. I am really enjoying what I have right now.
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« Last Edit: 07/26/11 at 01:27:38 by datman »  

Troii III; Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE; Sonore Signature Series Music Server; Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2; ExactPower EP15A; Musical Affairs Grand Crescendo SAG Speakers
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