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Which input tube for a splash of seduction? (Read 35235 times)
datman
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Re: Which input tube for a splash of seduction?
Reply #135 - 08/12/11 at 02:09:09
 
They were from Grant Fidelity and they were graded A+.
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will
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Re: Which input tube for a splash of seduction?
Reply #136 - 08/12/11 at 02:17:22
 
Got it, thanks.
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will
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Re: Which input tube for a splash of seduction?
Reply #137 - 08/16/11 at 21:02:10
 
I couldn't help myself. I bought some JJ6CA7s. I hate to comment much with them so new, but I have a couple somewhat interesting observations.

I played the tubes several hours last night, ran them all night without music, and played them with music about 6 hours today. I'd say not close to burned in, but I think they are just beginning to open up.

First impressions....dark, veiled and taught, but showing good potential, especially in the mid-mid and bass body and definition. But then I had been using cryo'd Ruby 34-Bs (very open and detailed) tempered by nicely warm Mullard 6922 pulls (darkish but nicely detailed), coke bottle OA3s (my warmest, big sounding VR), OC2, and 50s RAC 5U4G (darker/tighter/more liquid than 40s). So my whole set other than the EL34s was warmish/liquid oriented, making the EL34-B great. But with the new JJs....too dark.

So I changed to the brighter, opener, and more exuberant, but well balanced National 7DJ8s, 40s RAC 5U4G (opener), and sylvania coke bottle OB2s (sig like the RCA OA3 Coke bottles, but less push...gentler). Now I hear potential for these JJs, especially as they are beginning to come alive. They beautifully temper the bawdy nature of the Nationals that can show up with brighter tube sets. This is a nice sounding combination. Synergy is everything. I look forward to these 6CA7s after another 70 hours!

So Greg and Dat, do you have impressions as to the burn in time of these tubes?

I will do some direct comparisons with some other EL34s once they are there.

Wink




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« Last Edit: 08/16/11 at 21:07:50 by will »  

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Pale Rider
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Re: Which input tube for a splash of seduction?
Reply #138 - 08/16/11 at 21:15:45
 
Will, I don't really have a comment on burn-in time, as I did not sit with the JJs for very long, and in point of fact, nowhere near enough to get them out of the V-cap break-in. On my inputs, I have Ediswans in the Toriis, though I have the Nationals (8 of them) across the Ultra.

I might be inclined to put the JJs back in on one of the Toriis, and use them for side-by-side comparisons, taking advantage of the Ultra's ability to let me switch between two amps. As soon as I get through this break-in time, that is. Wink
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will
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Re: Which input tube for a splash of seduction?
Reply #139 - 08/16/11 at 21:22:09
 
Yes, I don't envy the breakin time. I really have come to dislike it actually. But then, once over, if the choices were good, it is all worth it!!!

Your setup would be so amazing for tube comparison once burned in. I hope you will do a bit of it for us. Those Nationals all across the Ultra will certainly flavor your system in their particular way.

Have fun!

Will
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Pale Rider
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Re: Which input tube for a splash of seduction?
Reply #140 - 08/16/11 at 21:29:00
 
The Nationals all across the Ultra board do present a challenge in one sense, though no matter what tube I choose, at least it will be consistent in the preamp stage. I am tempted to put the stock tubes in for these comparisons we are contemplating. So, perhaps one weekend, I will install what would have been the stock tubes [remember, I bought the Ultra without tubes], and burn them in over a full weekend cycle of 5/5.

As for the break-in time, well, yes, a bit of a PITA, but in reality, hardly a bad bet. The likelihood that the V-caps would ultimately sound bad was pretty slender it seems to me, and the only real question was whether it could be worth $500. Who knows? That is up to each individual buyer, and while I suspect the investment can only help my resale value, I frankly plan to bequeath this equipment, not re-sell it in the future. [I have, I believe, stocked enough NOS tubes to last 3-4 decades.]

And at least on my first Torii, which now probably has over 750 hours of music on it, the amp sounds great. Without a non-V-cap Torii to hear side-by-side, it's difficult to know what the difference would be. But what I hear now sounds pretty flippin' awesome.
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« Last Edit: 08/16/11 at 21:46:05 by Pale Rider »  

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will
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Re: Which input tube for a splash of seduction?
Reply #141 - 08/16/11 at 22:02:06
 
The Nationals seem well balanced across the spectrum to me, though comparatively I find them weighted toward openness and exuberance. This is in part the 7DJ8 thing. Within this, they are revealing, so might set a good foundation for hearing subtle differences in other tubes! On the other hand, they could make a darkish/veiled tube seem otherwise and a more neutral tube seem brightish, so I see your consideration.

Of all the tubes I have tried, of the ones I like, most of what I can say is they are different. I would be hard pressed to name one input that is the most neutral. Especially since my experience is all based in one system/room, and as you have said, synergy with other tubes is a HUGE thing. The 6N1Ps I have tried I would classify more like Lon suggested....with the right synergy, good for presentation for a wide variety of recording qualities perhaps in part due to some "occlusion." For that, I personally can't use them, though I should go ahead and try some decent cryo'd ones through burnin.

Cool
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will
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Re: Which input tube for a splash of seduction?
Reply #142 - 08/17/11 at 00:17:52
 
Greg, I think you must have added to your post as I was responding. Smiley

Sounds like your Toriis are becoming amazing and what makes them what you love is what there are, including the VCaps! Sounds great!

I have not taken the time to try to understand the functions of the Ultra, but that you could easily run different tubes in different Toriis and at will choose which to use for two channel will be awesome. And for comparison, wow, you could easily volume match very different tube sets. What a tool.

I just remembered some Voshkod 6N23P gold pins I had gotten from Koray Kural in Turkey and remembered they were supposed to be pretty neutral and non-colored. In his comparisons he found the Voshkods "more balanced, natural and smoother on the top end" than Reflector 6N23Ps. He also put the Voshkods in with 60s Siemens, and Amperex/Philips ECC88/E898CCs for neutral balanced sound with little color. I would agree. But I do find the 6N23Ps tend also more toward a nice big, tight/open tuby sound...more ambient information over texture than the others, contributing to their neutrality and sort of particular to them in my experience. The reason I mention this is that the Russion tubes are cheap. They are sounding pretty great with the 6CA7s. They probably are sort of neutral.
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« Last Edit: 08/17/11 at 00:24:21 by will »  

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Pale Rider
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Re: Which input tube for a splash of seduction?
Reply #143 - 08/17/11 at 01:25:11
 
Yep, you caught me, I was adding to my previous post. Thanks for the reference to the Voskhods. They are indeed very reasonably priced. And something relatively neutral in character is probably a good thing to have available. I noticed as I looked around the web that a number of different manufacture dates are attributed to these tubes. Still, the reviews generally seem positive, and the prices are reasonable. Looks like a dozen to go, please.
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will
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Re: Which input tube for a splash of seduction?
Reply #144 - 08/17/11 at 02:10:04
 
Greg, I am pretty sure I recall from Ron @ cryoset that the earlier ones like 70s-80ish, or was it pre 90s are better. Worth checking out I think. I don't know the year of mine but you could find out if interested. Koray is fun to email with if you want to check out his stock. He has a lot of tubes not listed at http://www.nostubestore.com/ Mine are Voshkod gold pins labeled Zaerix.

Couldn't you run different tubes in the various pre stages of the Ultra too. The interchangeability with the Torii input is cool! This could allow you to play with even more inputs than me having two applications!!! I love the tube quests though!
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Pale Rider
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Re: Which input tube for a splash of seduction?
Reply #145 - 08/17/11 at 14:36:56
 
Will, thanks again for your reference to the NOS Tube Store. In my search for some of the Voskhods, I came across a fellow named Tom Scata who at one time had offered up 110 pairs of cryo-treated tubes. I contacted him, and he replied promptly, even though he no longer had any in stock. His reply came just as I was about to pull the trigger on a doze on eBay; here is what he said:
Quote:
I haven't been able to find a another stash of good NOS 6N23P Voskhod "rocket logo" tubes in quite awhile now. I'll keep your email addrtess and contact you should I find some.  Be careful there's a lot of rip-offs selling bad pulls, Reflector 6N23P (which sound terrible) or the 6N23P-EB and 6N23P-EV tubes and claiming they are  NOS 6N23P Voskhod "rocket logo" tubes!

Anyway, I decided not to do the eBay deal, and who knows, maybe I missed a good deal. Instead, I reached out to NOSTS, and they have the Zaerix you mentioned, about double of the basic Voskhod, but sounds worth the try.
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« Last Edit: 08/17/11 at 15:47:17 by Pale Rider »  

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will
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Re: Which input tube for a splash of seduction?
Reply #146 - 08/17/11 at 16:52:11
 
I believe the regular ones from NosTS are the same tubes but without gold pins and premium selection. I went for the premium selection but it may not matter. I would hate to have you buy a bunch of these without trying a set. This is only the second time I have played them for any length of time. They just came up as a supposedly neutral tube and they are sounding good with this tube set. But at this point, I have such a selection of decent tubes that I can get good sound out of about any of them with the right combination.

With about $15/30 shipping, if you are shopping it might be interesting to see what 6922/6DJ8 pulls Koray has....a good inexpensive way to try a not very used tube. He also has a lot of stuff not listed....EL34s, and lots of VRs of many types and who knows what else.

Alternately, I could send this pair over for you to check out.
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Pale Rider
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Re: Which input tube for a splash of seduction?
Reply #147 - 08/17/11 at 17:21:44
 
Will, I appreciate your generous offer. I ordered 8 of the primo selection. I might in fact add some of the non-premium ones, just to have.

Like you, I have a sufficiently large tube selection, that I am likely to be able to make a tolerable combination out of something. Considering that 5 months ago, I owned none, this is a bit different landscape for me. In fact, I am starting to construct a little Bento database to sort the tubes and characterize them, so when I am dead and gone, my kids have something to go by. Wink
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will
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Re: Which input tube for a splash of seduction?
Reply #148 - 08/17/11 at 18:03:26
 
Nice idea the Bento data base!

I it is also good you checked with your supplier and he exposed the bad sounding 6N23Ps and fakes out there.

As I was wondering about why I had not used this tube in a while, I think it is in part because that power tubes I tend to use are on the open side of neutral. In their new state, the JJ 6CA7 seem pretty big bodied and warm. So the big, taught, open "tuby" sound and neutrality of the NOS Voshkod 6N23P's that could leave me wanting a more quirky character at times, sounds quite good.

I look forward to your impressions. FYI these tubes for some reason do take quite a while to burn in.

If you would like to delay your order I would be glad to send these over! Really.....
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« Last Edit: 08/17/11 at 18:05:48 by will »  

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Pale Rider
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Re: Which input tube for a splash of seduction?
Reply #149 - 08/17/11 at 18:54:41
 
Quote:
If you would like to delay your order I would be glad to send these over! Really.....


You're a gentleman, but no need. Koray has already processed my order. Given the number of 6922 "slots" in my amps, these present all sort of synergy opportunities.
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« Last Edit: 08/17/11 at 18:55:52 by Pale Rider »  

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