"This amplifier is maddeningly revealing, and the good news is that with effort we can each find incredible sounds. OUR incredible sounds. Or you can take the amp the way Steve delivers it. . . and have incredible sounds!"

Lon,

When you mute your PWD, do you have any noise/hum coming from your speakers?

Does anyone have any additional thoughts on the JJ 6CA7s?  It sounded like they may have been cheap Black Treasure killers.

I sometimes wonder if these black treasures stunt the fullest emotional expression of these amps--other high end tubes have left me numb.  Things sounds very good as is, but I wonder if more pull might come from other outputs.

Gopher, I think the JJs are more than okay, quite nice.  But Shuguang-killers? Not so far. On a $4$ basis, maybe so, but then things get awfully subjective, as if they weren't already!

Not quite sure what you mean by "stunting the fullest emptional expression" of these amps, but that certainly hasn't been my experience. If it weren't for Steve offering the GTs as an option, I might never have considered them. As it is, I am glad I did. One thing I have learned, and as you and others have observed, is that it's not just the one tube that matters, it is the synergy of all of them together. I have the 0B3 VR running right now in my Torii, and it is sounding very, very nice. Bass seems rich, but not quite as fat as the 0A3 was sounding.  I have a couple of NOS Raytheon 0C2 for the other regulators, but expect some 0B2 to arrive soon. I have also tried a number of rectifiers, and have yet to settle on the one I like best. I have some 1950s RCAs of various typers that just arrived, and will start listening to just those soon. Again, it goes to that synergy issue. Every single change produces more than just the addition/subtraction of the one tube type; it also produces changes in the other tubes and the amp overall.

Don't know if you noticed it, but on the comments on the Tone Audio blog post about the Torii, one poster asked Jeff about his thoughts of the Torii as compared to the RWA Signature 30.2. Jeff observed the obvious (very different amps), and then commented on the fact that RWA is what it is, and short of a flavored pre-amp in front of it, there is no rolling the sound. In contrast, the Torii is a tube rollers dream. I would add "Or nightmare. Or maybe manic obsessive rabbit hole."

So, datman, you gonna unload those Treasures?

Hey Datman, Thanks for the input. Sounds compelling to me. I wonder if you could elaborate on what the JJs sound like compared to the Treasures. I like a lot of information too, but sometimes it comes at a cost of excessive brightness, hard edges, hyper realism etc. I am guessing this is not your experience, but since we all have different tastes, rooms etc...just wondering if you might describe the context of your preferences for these tubes.....the other tubes you are using with the JJs and what you love about the sound they give in your Torii.


PR, just wondering the same from you. I know you might not be there yet with burn in and adapting your new system, but if you feel like it, could you describe what you hear/like/dislike from the JJs and the Treasures, and what other tubes you are using.

Thanks guys!

Compare and contrast. Always fun, so here goes. The primary difference between the JJ's and the Treasure's lies in the extremes. When I first installed the JJ's my immediate reaction was "where did all this bass come from?" My system had never been bass deficient before, but all of the sudden I bass extension that simply was not there previously.

Initially the highs were a little rough. Because I have tinnitus I am very sensaitive to this. Once the JJ's were broken in, the highs smoothed out and now they go on forever with no edge or grit. The treasures also porduced excellent highs as far as they went, but not what I am geting from the JJ's. The one area that both tubes were alike is in soundstage presentation. The JJ's produce a fully formed image between my speakers complete with excellent 3d characterisitcs, as did the Treasures.

The one other area the JJ's exceed the Treasures is in micro detail. As I said in my earlier post, with the Treasures, I never really noticed any limitations in my digital playback. With the JJ's I notice there is not the kind of sonic differences I would expect when playing 24/96 downloads. What I attribute this to is the greatly increased resolution of tyhe JJ's. They have actually allowed me to hear the limitations of my Touch/DAC-1 digital front end.

So being the good neurotic audiophile that I am, I have ordered a Sonore Signature I2S output digital server and a DAC-2 with I2S support. From what I have been able to ascertain, this combo should allow me to hear EVERYTHING I couldn't with the Touch.  

I am using the following tubes:

JJ 6CA7 outputs
Svetlana NOS Blackplate 5U4G
0C2 and 0A3 regulators ( I didn't have much luck playing with these)
National 7DJ8 input tubes

My speakers are Musical Affairs Grand Crscendo KM30 SAG with PHY-HP coaxial drivers.

Preamp is a Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE.

Thanks guys! I appreciate that.

Very interesting to me too that for one the JJ highs are more extended and the other, they may be a bit rolled off! Indicates the synergy thing I think but then.....headphones versus speakers in a room.....Mannnn...too many variables!

I have definitely noticed a bump in all the various areas with certain tube combinations. The more subtle changes are expected, but the big bumps are always a surprise especially when it is bass extension. I guess this is due in part to the Torii can go down low if all else can. But the thing is that some combinations of tubes really impact one another more than others!

Wow, both of you sound like you are having a lot of fun!