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ERR and HR-1 (sortof?)/IT Radial comparisons (Read 30436 times)
Lon
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Re: ERR and HR-1 (sortof?)/IT Radial comparisons
Reply #75 - 07/30/11 at 13:28:04
 
Well, I guess even though I'm not doing vinyl any longer I'm happy maybe even anchored in the ritual, the handling of the physical object. At least I'm used to for so many decades having the notion that the object leads to the sound. A file on a PC or laptop doesn't seem the same to me. I gave up on vinyl because so much of the music I wanted to explore was right there on cd and NOT on lp (lp selection in this town is pretty poor in my opinion, always had been). Cd allows me to explore almost any genre and I can transfer vinyl to cdr as well. So I've amassed a huge collection and want the very best set-up I can afford to play them back. Actually I really can't afford the PS Audio set up, sensibly I wouldn't have spent the money, but I just had the bug to complete this audio odyssey. And here I am, listening to Miles Davis and it's sounding really really good. I feel I have a system to marvel over and I'm back to exploring music again.

I can see the other side, a PC based system being so convenient and practical and not cumbersome. But. . . well I look back on my work llfe and I was happiest when I wasn't tied to a computer, and I spend probably too much time with a laptop at home as well. Music listening has always had an appeal to me because it was outside that world of computers, it was a world of its own, with it's own ritual and a different "vibe." I don't feel inclined to change that, I like my excursion into this different world, I want to be outside the PC world with music and so here I am, happy.

Good Lord I sure hope you get your ZDAC-1 back SOON!

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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Pale Rider
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Re: ERR and HR-1 (sortof?)/IT Radial comparisons
Reply #76 - 09/24/11 at 18:09:07
 
Lon wrote:
Quote:
Music listening has always had an appeal to me because it was outside that world of computers, it was a world of its own, with it's own ritual and a different "vibe." I don't feel inclined to change that, I like my excursion into this different world, I want to be outside the PC world with music and so here I am, happy.


This so resonates with me. Interestingly, even though I am able to access my NAS library through the Oppo or the PW DAC/Bridge, I am preferring the latter. I think there are two reasons for this:

1. Quality on the PW DAC is stunning, and it is audibly better than the Oppo's very good audio section.

2. Interacting with the PW DAC is more intimate than the Oppo. The Oppo puts this big display up on the screen (which I don't have to watch obviously, while listening, but I do have to use while selecting music, and it even tells me what kind of signal I have, etc.), and that big display changes something. A first, with the PW DAC, I felt confined by the tiny on-unit screen, but I have settled into interaction with either my iPhone or iPad (under iOS 5, I still have some glitchiness on the iPad), and that has restored the sense of intimacy.
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Decware: Ultra | Torii MKIII [2] | SE84ZS | Taboo MkIII Sources: Synology 1812+ | Baetis Revolution | PWD DAC MKII | Lumin Network Player | Mytek 192 | Oppo 105 DSP: DEQX Mate | Emotiva Outputs: ERR [6] + Servo Subs | LCD-2 & other cans
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Lon
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Re: ERR and HR-1 (sortof?)/IT Radial comparisons
Reply #77 - 09/24/11 at 21:59:47
 
Greg, I am so so happy you're really enjoying the PerfectWave DAC. I am really happy with its sound and its functions. And I confess I really like having the remote control of source and volume again (though I tend to get up and tailor the volume a lot varying the output from the DAC and the input volume of the Torii to get the differences of weight, dynamics, openness or richness similar to that will gets using his ZStage).

Now all I have to do is pay it off. Smiley
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Pale Rider
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Re: ERR and HR-1 (sortof?)/IT Radial comparisons
Reply #78 - 09/25/11 at 04:35:14
 
Ah yes, the paying for it part. Something my wife just now commented on. Lovingly. Really. No, I mean it.
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Decware: Ultra | Torii MKIII [2] | SE84ZS | Taboo MkIII Sources: Synology 1812+ | Baetis Revolution | PWD DAC MKII | Lumin Network Player | Mytek 192 | Oppo 105 DSP: DEQX Mate | Emotiva Outputs: ERR [6] + Servo Subs | LCD-2 & other cans
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Lon
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Re: ERR and HR-1 (sortof?)/IT Radial comparisons
Reply #79 - 10/09/12 at 18:28:53
 
With all the talk of the HR-1 speakers on the webpage and at Dec Fest I decided to move my pair from the bedroom system out into the main system. It's been some time since I've done that and the results have been interesting.

I immediately miss the spacious open sound of the ERRs that the HR-1s just don't quite duplicate. There is a lot more depth to the sound with the ERRs, and more width as well, but they aren't "rectangular" territories but rounded or less specified zones. In contrast the  HR-1s have a more compact and specific soundfield, with a more conventional compression to the image and stage, which takes a bit of getting used to for me. For small ensemble and solo instrument recordings this is actually a bit welcome. For orchestral, big band, big ensemble recordings I miss the envelopment of the ERRs, a bit.

There have been some changes since I last made a comparison, mainly in that the PS Audio PerfectWave Duo has been upgraded to Mk II and is very broken in, and that I have more of the top dollar PS Audio power cords in the system. As a result, the two speakers have come closer and closer together tonally, with the  HR-1s perhaps a bit more "warm" and a bit more macro dynamic. The ERRs are perhaps a bit more micro-dynamic. And though I am not sure what the specs will tell, the ERRs seem to be a bit more efficient--I'm having to crank the  HR-1s a bit more to get the same perceived level of sound. This may also be related to the presentation though, I may be goosing the volume a bit to compensate for the missing bits of depth and width? Not sure yet.

I'm leaving the  HR-1s in for a week and will see how I feel about bringing the ERRs back at that time. In the meantime the ERRs are sounding excellent in the bedroom system, no surprise! If I keep them there I really need to find some sort of elaborate scheme to get Bob to send me the grilles for these. Smiley They're slightly more vulnerable there in the smaller room, and I would absolutely hate for anything to happen to the drivers.

Bottom line: the  HR-1s are amazing speakers that deserve all the attention that they are getting. I'm not sure that my pair are identical to current production models, but they're I believe fairly close. They, along with the ERR show the excellence and innovation that Steve (and especially in these instances BOB!) bring to our homes and ears.
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Donnie
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Re: ERR and HR-1 (sortof?)/IT Radial comparisons
Reply #80 - 10/09/12 at 23:36:53
 
I compared the HR-1's to the Zen Open Baffle's with a Mini Torii and a ZCD200i through a ZDAC-1 on Saturday morning. With my music and to my ears there wasn't any comparison at all. The HR-1's were playing when I started, a couple of songs into the CD we decided to swap the speakers out to the ZOB's. I didn't even finish the song that was playing, we swapped back to the HR-1's and I was happy again.
I was on the fence before I got to hear both speakers back to back.
I really want to stress that to MY ears on MY music there was no contest, but then I play my music way too loud and it isn't what anyone would call subtle music.
So to sum up what I heard, pennys are being saved, the new motorcycle fund might be getting raided. A Koa covered HR-1 should be my next big purchase.
There might be a new contest next year with me giving away my MG944's. Only time will tell......
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Lon
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Re: ERR and HR-1 (sortof?)/IT Radial comparisons
Reply #81 - 10/09/12 at 23:52:09
 
Interesting, as I've never heard a ZOB. If I had to give a quick answer to which of the two (ERR and HR-1) that I love most I'd say ERR because I just love the radial dispersion so much. It seems more natural and less "hifi" to me. But the HR-1 is the best speaker other than a Decware fully Radial design I've ever had.

I'm having a lot of fun lately when I visit my best friend's new condo (well it's his first condo, his first piece of property). He has a long rectangular living room and I gave him my RL-2 speakers, and they are just spectacular in that room. I really enjoy music and video over there now, and he's just ecstatic at the sound he has now. He has a Peachtree Audio integrated amp right now, one day he may have a Decware.
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« Last Edit: 10/09/12 at 23:52:31 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Lon
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Re: ERR and HR-1 (sortof?)/IT Radial comparisons
Reply #82 - 10/10/12 at 20:43:26
 
One other observation regarding the HR-1s made while playing this week. With the grille off the Radial driver especially, they can project like electrostatic speakers I've heard. Very quick and trowing a tall image. Quite impressive.
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Lon
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Re: ERR and HR-1 (sortof?)/IT Radial comparisons
Reply #83 - 10/18/12 at 01:17:03
 
Well after extensive listening and another comparison between the two speakers here's my latest summation. . . .

For Redbook, I have to say I have learned to prefer the HR-1s by a hair. The front firing driver really adds a body and solidity to the lower midrange, and the lowest bass is quite powerful in its more compact form from this speaker compared to the more diffuse sound from the ERRs.

For vinyl, the ERR have just a tiny tiny slight edge, which surprises me, but the spaciousness the ERRs bring out of vinyl is just so seductive. The HR-1s are more precise, slightly more detailed, but I just love the dimensionality from the ERR while a record spins.

For video sources, the ERR is very similar to surround sound, and I prefer the ERR to the HR-1s clearly, though the HR-1s are excellent, so clear and tight with hires sources.

Too bad I can't  really have two sets of speakers to switch back and forth on the fly in the main living space, as that would be the best situation. Both are fantastic speakers! Right now the HR-1s will stay in the system.
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will
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Re: ERR and HR-1 (sortof?)/IT Radial comparisons
Reply #84 - 10/18/12 at 03:13:04
 
Hey Lon...I have enjoyed your comparisons of the HR-1 and ERRs. The preference for ambience and diffusion the ERRs provide makes sense in your setting and in the context of your desire to make bad recordings of good music sound as good as possible.

For me, the HR-Ones are off the charts good, but I have been tweaking them of course:-).

I think I have mentioned this before, but I think for those not aware of it, I would like to address the (sortof?) in this thread title. I am guessing that "HR-1 (sortof?)" has something to do with the HR-1s having continued to develop since yours were built. Same speaker in the main, but with modifications and refinements Bob really likes in his amazing implementation of integrating radial with a front driver transparently.

If I recall correctly, he gradually came up with several refinements, most on purpose, and some by chance. Like the newer crossover scheme separating the radials and the front woofer was apparently pretty dramatic....expanding the atmospheric ambient information, sound stage depth, width and height, and the stage saturation...overall giving a more spacious though natural and rich presentation. Perhaps closer to what you enjoy from the ERR presentation in the atmospheric information area.

There is new damping material and method for separating the top and bottom chamber; construction method improvements making for a cleaner corner and base fit; for the tweeters, there are more refined caps and I think resistors smoothing them out in a sweet way; and the passive openings have been changed a bit. This was as of my speakers, and only Bob knows if more has happened for the newly offered speaker.

It may well be that your personal preferences would still arrive at the ERR for your overall enjoyment, but for me, I am so happy with my HR-Ones that I don't even think about exploring speakers anymore. And though none of the recordings I listen to are super bad I think these would play bad recordings well. And I do like the smooth and refined clarity and focus of the speakers, presumably, in part due to the amazng implementation of the front drivers.

Actually, while listening though, I can't tell these are front firing/radial hybrids. I can't even hear the speakers, only the players. But then, I have explored refining them to my tastes/room a bit, so my thoughts may not be fully representational of the newest speaker either!

The sound though...players in the room is more the sense than ever; accurate timber; beautifully smooth detail, micro and macro; crazy good presentation of string bass and big drums...all the string strike, skin and wood present with all the space around the instruments intact in an eerily real way; piano like it is right here...an amazing triumph; strident horns like some Miles Davis stuff just sound like playing...and well recorded but still demanding horns, like Archie Shepp True ballads...reed and pads to brass and air...all crazy real and smooth. There is no doubt for me that these are an awesome example of the audio art.
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« Last Edit: 10/18/12 at 03:23:23 by will »  

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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beowulf
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Re: ERR and HR-1 (sortof?)/IT Radial comparisons
Reply #85 - 10/18/12 at 07:02:53
 
Thanks Lon, again great overall impressions between the two!

It seems like they are very close on some points that you're almost splitting hairs between the two.

I would be interested in hearing your comparisons between the ERRs and the newly updated HR-1s.  What we need is for Steve D to send you a new pair of HR-1s for an in depth review!   Grin

Your comparison also leads me to belive that I would prefer the HR-1's as a Center Channel in a home theater environment compared to the ERR's, where the ERRs seem like they would be quite intoxicating in 2 Channel Stereo and/or would be great as surrounds and left/right channels as well, but I tend to like my movie dialog fired directly at me in comparison to radiating.

This also has me convinced that Decware should focus on an HR-1 Center channel for movie buffs rather than having to buy pairs of speakers for the center.

Thanks again for the great review!
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« Last Edit: 10/18/12 at 07:10:57 by beowulf »  
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Lon
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Re: ERR and HR-1 (sortof?)/IT Radial comparisons
Reply #86 - 10/18/12 at 11:41:44
 
will, I'm not sure where mine stands in the development process, I don't think that they are as far away from yours as earliest models may be. Regardless, what fuels the differences between the two models most is the amount of exposure the Radial driver has, and the conventional front firing driver. I think the model that would most endear itself to me would be one that incorporated the front-firing driver with a more fully exposed radial driver. I imagine that would be very hard to accomplish, but would be killer in my system. If the depth from the ERR could be woven into the presentation, that would be amazing. (It's extremely clever the integration that Bob made for this model, with a smaller radial driver mostly enclosed, and with the grilles on top directing the radiation to be closer to the front-firing radiation; the presentation is very different with the grilles removed--at least in my rooms--presenting a tall image and almost like a big electrostatic screen image, but less integrated with the front-firing driver than when the grilles are in place. I imagine integrating more radial dispersion with the front-firing would be difficult mainly because of the height and "ear level" of such a configuration, my guess is that it may be best accomplished with the front-firing driver just below a fully exposed radial driver, and the tweeter suspended above the radial driver as in the ERR. If I had skill to do so I'd experiment with that, I think I'd just go nuts for a speaker like that).

I would say that I would be perfectly happy with the HR-1s f I were not using the system as both audio AND video. For video sources the ERR simply wins out. And beowolf, I find the dialog tied to the screen with ERRs in place, and so did Pale Rider I believe; I think I'd be in heaven with 4 ERRs for surround sound if I were into surround sound and could house a system.

will, I simply never find "players in the room" to be a way that I hear music, as I have HAD players in my room and play music in my room and there's clearly a distinction, reality is reality, playback is playback. Really to my ears both sets of speakers come as close to this, with the ERR actually seeming a bit more "real" as in less "hifi" in the way that stereo reproduction highlights things that aren't really "real" like super image size and specificity, dynamics concentrated in a spot and not radiating out, etc. I still think vinyl accomplishes this realism a bit more easily than even the best digital, and I find that the ERR present playback in a more "real" way. That's ultimately important to me, as all my life I've struggled with these "hifi" attributes.*  The HR-1s have a bit of a leg up on tonal clarity and extension, which can be very good (and quite ugly with mediocre and worse recordings) and most important for Redbook cd playback, which is more challenged imo than vinyl or hires in this regard. The slight compression/concentration of the sound caused by the front-firing driver is also beneficial for Redbook. Redbook is what it is, but it isn't perfect.

* From my life experience and listening experience I think the problem is in the way that recordings are made. I actually listen to a fair amount of music from the 'teens, 'twenties and 'thirties and I believe these "hifi" attributes initially show up as limitations of the recording media and methods of the time, and that "sound" and presentation became so ingrained into records and playback that it's become the way music playback is expected to be. And these attributes became manufactured later into recordings when the media and equipment became much better, that sound was simply what was brought about on recordings as it was accepted as the sound of recorded music (and there were other, more realistic options possible, as I've proven to myself with my own rather simple recordings made on very basic equipment, and recordings that were made to be more realistic to the way music is experienced live in the air.) I grew up hearing my grandmother play the piano and organ, my grandfather and my uncle dueting on banjo and guitar, music in the church, etc. and when I came to fall in love with recorded music I just learned to live with the departure from reality that "hifi" brings, but I always wanted a more real presentation. The Radial speakers from Decware were the first move away from "hifi" to a more realistic sound that I've found, and they stole my heart. When paired with recordings made with an ear towards a more realistic sound they're amazing, and they breathe depth and a closer sound to that of the live experience into more conventional recordings. Big praise from me to Steve and Bob for exploring and offering these type of speakers.
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« Last Edit: 10/18/12 at 14:14:39 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Lon
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Re: ERR and HR-1 (sortof?)/IT Radial comparisons
Reply #87 - 10/18/12 at 14:17:29
 
beowulf wrote on 10/18/12 at 07:02:53:
Thanks Lon, again great overall impressions between the two!

It seems like they are very close on some points that you're almost splitting hairs between the two.

I would be interested in hearing your comparisons between the ERRs and the newly updated HR-1s.  What we need is for Steve D to send you a new pair of HR-1s for an in depth review!   Grin

Your comparison also leads me to belive that I would prefer the HR-1's as a Center Channel in a home theater environment compared to the ERR's, where the ERRs seem like they would be quite intoxicating in 2 Channel Stereo and/or would be great as surrounds and left/right channels as well, but I tend to like my movie dialog fired directly at me in comparison to radiating.

This also has me convinced that Decware should focus on an HR-1 Center channel for movie buffs rather than having to buy pairs of speakers for the center.

Thanks again for the great review!


b, I don't think I have the heart and stamina to live through another speaker break-in period, so I'm not eager to hear another HR-1 right now. Smiley  I suspect that the fully broken in newer model would still not fundamentally change my impressions as it's the extent of radial dispersion between the two designs that defines them most to my ears.

And as I noted above I do find that the dialog is centered on the screen very nicely in two channel use of the ERRs with my DVR and Blu-ray players. I'm not sure I would need a center channel (though I'm less experienced with surround sound, and confess that I've never really heard a surround sound system that I felt warranted the cost of all the extra channels).
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« Last Edit: 10/18/12 at 16:20:29 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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will
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Re: ERR and HR-1 (sortof?)/IT Radial comparisons
Reply #88 - 10/18/12 at 16:29:09
 
Lon,

My HR-1s sound very, very close to the same with the grill and top piece that surrounds the radial driver off as on. In other words, after removing the two top parts leaving the radial rising out of the top chamber. From this, I am guessing the combination of modifications in mine might have done something similar to what you would like from the HR-1...integrating the radial more into the presentation. But I can only go from my experience compared to your description, and from my (hopefully well remembered) dialog with Bob as my speakers were being built and tested.

I too have played a lot of music (mostly acoustic) and off and on delving into recording. And I think I get what you are talking about...the difference between straight up players in a room and recorded player. But I definitely get a sense of players in the room from my system, though often from within the context of all the stuff that you can do with recording...different mic sounds and techniques, compression, reverbs, amps, etc. The difference may be a semantic thing, as it appears close to impossible to have a loudspeaker/amp arrangement sound exactly like acoustic player in the same room, but this is part of why I like my system...for the most part it sounds better with the oomph of the stereo system behind the music to me. Only in amazing rooms have I experienced live music as engaging as my system. Most rooms just don't make players sound that good. So, I like well recorded music and how we can bring out the best of the instrument by mic techniques and studio rooms and treatments, that is as long as it respects the inherent qualities of the voices or instruments.

With my speakers, there is no sense of the sound being different from the movie screen. And I don't quite know what high-fi means, but imagine it has something to do with hyped presentation??? Or maybe what I am describing above is "hifi." But to me, with good recordings mine just sound like beautifully recorded instruments in my room giving a very visceral sense of all the nuance of the voice or instrument in this room space...very real sounding close and extended ambience defining the later spacial placement, and the engulfing sweetness, bathed in the sound thanks to great room, source, amplification and loudspeakers. There are of course almost always little bits that don't make it to the recording well, but for the most part, within this, my system/room nails it for me.

With recordings with decent sound stage, it never feels too big or hyped, but just about right. Maybe it is source and system tuning, maybe it is room (which I am sure has loads to do with what a system can pull from recordings) and I suspect from all our posts, that I may have more detail integrated into my sound...a critical aspect of soundstage and visceral response to the music's sense of "real" to me. I go for just enough to define sound stage, air and presence, while not leaving hard edges on things...balanced sound with layered depth of inner detail. With my source arrangement, the super fine harmonic details and textures are present without harsh edges, bringing out what I refer to as detail layers,  and love this.  

So who knows, but as far as written explanations can convey...I would guess our HR-1's probably sound a lot alike, but also perhaps different in subtle qualities of presentation. Just playing with caps and resistors on mine made a big difference in refinement of sound to tastes, and damping made a big difference again for serious listening, so the mods Bob has made could be notable in our critical listening mode. But not having both to listen too.......

Wink

Have fun!

Will
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« Last Edit: 10/18/12 at 16:32:31 by will »  

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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Re: ERR and HR-1 (sortof?)/IT Radial comparisons
Reply #89 - 10/18/12 at 16:38:26
 
I doubt that they sound that different will. I clearly hear, in every room and every system that I have ever heard in other homes and showrooms, that there is a distinct difference between recorded and live music that prohibits me from saying that "players are in the room." I can say that the presentation can be extremely faithful to the recording, but a recording is a recording and in no sense is a player in the room. No amount of modifying the HR-1 is going to change this. It may be just semantics, but I can't ever say that, it's just not true. Just me, others can say that, I can't. One of my audio oddball things, I just accept that others use that term as well as I can. Smiley

"Hifi" are attributes that distance the presentation from a real and natural sound, all recorded sound is "hifi" to me in that sense, it's a pet term of mine. The ERR presentation sounds a bit more real and natural to me. I think it's because it presents things in a more diffuse pattern which mimics the way sound from performers in real space does, compared to the more conventional sound of the HR-1 dispersion. In that sense I view the HR-1 as more "hifi" and the ERR as a move in the direction of natural sound. If you could live with ERRs for a time I think you'd understand the distinction I am feeling. (This ties back to how I view recorded sound through history; "hifi" is quite standard fare for recordings unfortunately).

I think we're basically on the same page.

As for sound with the grilles off, I would doubt there's that big a difference, and perhaps the difference is mostly descriptive. But in my case there is less integration of the sound with the grilles off, and a change in the radiation pattern that makes a less convincing presentation for me, a higher image.

Anyway, glad you love yours. I love mine too. They're not magic, can't bring three dimensional beings with real sound into my home, but I can't expect them to. I love the ERRs too, I'm really conflicted as both do something integrally more preferable than the other though both have great similarities. And both are great speakers.
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« Last Edit: 10/18/12 at 16:59:31 by Lon »  

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