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Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes (Read 47426 times)
Pale Rider
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #50 - 06/25/11 at 18:11:19
 
Six years of borrowing is illegal in some places!
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Pale Rider
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #51 - 07/01/11 at 14:18:31
 
Looks like the first of my Toriis is about to be on its way. Hooray!
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Lon
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #52 - 07/01/11 at 16:03:16
 
Congrats!   Smiley
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« Last Edit: 07/01/11 at 16:04:34 by Lon »  

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kana813
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #53 - 07/01/11 at 19:23:58
 
PR,

I saw your amp was packed on amp waiting list Steve sent out yesterday.

Your other TORII shows "waiting on part."

Mine shows "on bench."

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Pale Rider
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #54 - 07/01/11 at 20:12:38
 
Interesting, thanks kana. I saw Steve's note that said my amp status had been updated, but I received no list attached to it, and I could see no way to determine what that status change was.

I suspect the "waiting on part" is a reference to a transformer.
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« Last Edit: 07/02/11 at 00:08:42 by Pale Rider »  

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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #55 - 07/02/11 at 00:42:32
 
Here is a link to the list... it is a .PDF file updated in real time.

https://creatorexport.zoho.com/decwarehighfidelity/decware/pdf/Amplifier_Waiting...

This is the link that is sent out in the status messages.

Thanks,

Steve
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Pale Rider
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #56 - 07/02/11 at 00:46:17
 
Thanks much Steve. Odd how it didn't come through with your emails. An awful lot of nice Decware on that list. Good stuff.

Happy 4th!
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« Last Edit: 07/02/11 at 04:37:08 by Pale Rider »  

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Pale Rider
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #57 - 07/06/11 at 20:49:58
 
The first of my Toriis shipped today, along with three new Decware power cords.

Separately, I did my first tests of the two groups of Shuguang tubes I bought. The tubes tested almost identically, or at least, in the first two tests I ran, before I managed to idiotically break off a center guide pin on one of the tubes in the test socket. Sigh. Fortunately, it was one of the cheaper tubes, though that distinction may not matter a lot. OTOH, maybe it broke off because it was a cheaper tube. Dunno.
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Lon
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #58 - 07/06/11 at 22:18:37
 
Congrats on the amp finally shipping!

Sorry about the tube. It could still work?
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Pale Rider
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #59 - 07/06/11 at 22:30:27
 
Actually, I think the tube still could work just fine. It tests fine. I could try to repair it, or simply mark the base with the center pin key location.
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Lon
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #60 - 07/06/11 at 23:30:07
 
I thought it would, I had one in a guitar amp that was broken that way and it worked, the only danger being pinning it wrong. . . .
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Pale Rider
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #61 - 07/07/11 at 15:36:36
 
Brent tells me he sees this problem with modern tubes not fitting old sockets well, especially in the Chinese tubes. He recommended some socket savers from Antique Electronic Supply. I ordered a few and will leave them installed in the tester.
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will
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #62 - 07/09/11 at 01:15:01
 
PR, Sorry if I missed it, but can you post a link or company name where you bought the less costly tubes?
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« Last Edit: 07/09/11 at 01:16:15 by will »  

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Pale Rider
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #63 - 07/09/11 at 04:37:35
 
Will, I bought my third quad on fleabay. Here is a current auction for two. Hope that helps.

Greg
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will
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #64 - 07/09/11 at 07:28:39
 
Thanks Greg, Have you looked at this?

http://shuguangtreasure.com/wordpress/2010/12/21/difference-between-factory-matc...

They seem quite convinced that standard measurements alone are not enough??? With all the "well matched" NOS tubes I have, now that could throw a wrench into my works!
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #65 - 07/09/11 at 20:56:03
 
Will I did see that, and it was one of the reasons I felt the "investment" was worth it with Grant Fidelity. The only way to know for sure will be to swap out whole quads in the Torii.
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will
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #66 - 07/09/11 at 21:17:01
 
Greg,

Please do keep us informed! I think the thing that got my attention more than sound was the theory that longevity issues can be revealed with the more complex testing. Hmmm. I guess at this point, I would be inclined go with the Grants "investment" too if I buy the tubes. I can't wait to get your impressions.
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #67 - 07/09/11 at 22:52:18
 
Ehh...  one can get a matched quad of the 6ca7s for about 50% of what Grant Fidelity charges from a source that has never steered me wrong.  On the other hand, I the one premium pair of Shuguangs I got from Grant (Psvane 845) left me feeling numb and was ultimately sold.

My personal feeling is that its effective marketing.
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will
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #68 - 07/09/11 at 22:56:24
 
Gopher,

And what might that source be?
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Pale Rider
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #69 - 07/09/11 at 23:23:02
 
My third quad was picked up from this auction. I am not complaining, but the fact that it was one of these tubes that broke an octal post when testing, and that my seller has disclaimed any interest in assessing the cause, causes me to ascribe ome value to the Grant Fidelity overhead price. So, best I can do is compare the two, continue testing (once I get my socket savers in), and see what happens.

I do think Grant Fidlity makes some valid points about how matching alone does not provide the necessarily most predictive results. OTOH, it may well be that the 100% markup cannot be justified by any amount of longevity. Don't know. Yet.
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« Last Edit: 07/09/11 at 23:27:21 by Pale Rider »  

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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #70 - 07/09/11 at 23:58:23
 
I have bought my Shuguang tubes from goodcomponent.com  Clark over there has been honest and helpful and even honored a warranty replacement when the bad pair of tubes I returned to him were lost in the mail.

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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #71 - 07/10/11 at 00:10:06
 
Thanks Gopher. Are those guys affiliated with the same people who make DACs, headphone amps like the GD-Audio Phoenix, and other stuff?

Anyway, looks encouraging. I put in an inquiry on the ST 6CA7-Z.
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« Last Edit: 07/10/11 at 00:15:05 by Pale Rider »  

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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #72 - 07/10/11 at 00:21:39
 
I'm not sure to be honest.  I read about them in a thread on audioasylum and have used them a few times for tubes only.
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #73 - 07/10/11 at 00:22:01
 
Thanks Gopher.
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #74 - 07/10/11 at 02:58:00
 
Reading the information provided by [Cary] Grant Fidelity, Shuguang quality leaves a whole lot to to be desired.
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Pale Rider
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #75 - 07/10/11 at 03:12:39
 
RR, I think you are spot on that this is one way to interpret the Grant Fidelity assessment of the Shuguang tubes. Like buying old Jags; cars were wonderful to drive, so long as you could drive them.  Reminds me of an old cartoon that showed a dealer, and a buyer discussing price, and the dealer says something like: "And here is our Platinum Premiere Package; it includes a stand-by mechanic."
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #76 - 07/10/11 at 03:30:20
 
PR,

Did your first TORII show up yet?
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #77 - 07/10/11 at 03:36:37
 
Not yet. Due here Monday, July 11.
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #78 - 07/10/11 at 04:44:41
 
7/11, a lucky day!

Looking forward to your feedback.
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #79 - 07/14/11 at 18:58:25
 
Well, I was out sick a couple of days, so didn't have a chance to set up my Torii for its burn-in cycle. But it is going now. 5 hours on and off.  I have an iPod set up to shuffle-repeat through its entire library, with the Torii set on a heavy duty timer cycled every 5 hours. That way, it should only take the V-caps about two months to settle in. Wink Actually, it should take less than that, because I will do the cycling thing only for about a week, before I bring it home. The Radials are due here Tuesday, and Sarah just told me the Ultra is shipping out today.

Such a lovely piece of equipment. I am thinking of changing my handle to Valve Drunk. That way, you guys can call me VD in messages.
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will
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #80 - 07/14/11 at 19:33:36
 
VD, here is your little man Smiley
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« Last Edit: 07/14/11 at 20:05:05 by will »  

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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #81 - 07/15/11 at 18:06:26
 
LOL! What, me worry?
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #82 - 08/30/11 at 05:38:06
 
PR, what is the verdict on the Treasures? Or I should search for it in another thread first? I'll post this first...... .

Also, big price difference between goodcomponents.com and grantfidelity? I suppose the Grade A at grant vs. what goodcomp. carries? I don't know? The fancy box pretty, or paper box scares me too from goodcomponent. I don't have a tube tester.... . Steve does, so I will buy them from him.....if you guys that use them think they are worth it too......like the reviewers.  

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« Last Edit: 08/30/11 at 05:59:56 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #83 - 08/30/11 at 10:02:55
 
SOT, I absolutely love the SGT 6CA7-Z tubes. I have listened to the stock JJ EL-34 and I have the JJ 6CA7 as well. I have some NOS Mullards and Svetlanas also, but I haven't listened to them. I am no fan of Chinese tubes, nor do I believe that simply because they are Chinese, they cannot be good. I ordered two matched quads from Grant, highest rating. I ordered a third quad from a fleabay seller at half the price as the Grants, for backup, but have not listened to them; they are slightly different in appearance only on the bases; the third quad was not shipped in the luxury box, but it arrived safely. The Grants tested as billed on my B&K, and so did the third quad. Bearing in mind that my Toriis (with V-caps) are still breaking in, so there is every reason to believe that their sound is still evolving, here is a summary of what I hear (I am not a big long review writer):

1. Sublime liquidity, a smoothness that is clear and deep.
2. Layers of complexity, which in combination with the depth and detail, amazing detail, produces a deep, wide, tall soundstage.
3. Soft highs, but not lacking air or detail around instruments and voices.
4. Well-controlled taught bass.
5. Very quick transients, with what seems like natural decay.

Now, maybe a year from now, any tube will sound like this in this amazing amp. Could be, but the JJs do not sound this thorough, this complete, not yet anyway. For now, I am delighted.  
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #84 - 08/30/11 at 14:40:46
 
Thanks PR, after I have spent some time with my Torii and the JJ's shipped with/break in of Amp as well......... .  I will have to order Quad's of the highest rating. The curiousity over the next 6 months to a year will itch at me in a good way. I can rationalize the Treasures, because I bought the Torii before the price increase. Thanks again, Stone of Tone.

PS-where do I find that list of where my Torii is in the Que (I could call)? I remember seeing one for Speakers one time.......... . I'll check the Blog or Whats New Tabs.
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #85 - 08/30/11 at 18:56:05
 
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #86 - 08/31/11 at 01:41:33
 
I see you posted the amplifier waiting list... it seems no mater how fast we try to build them the list continues to grow.  That's ok, I've learned a couple things in the past 15 years and the first is that you don't rush a good thing.  We can build and ship between 2 and 4 a week if that's all we build.  There are another 50 amps of different models that you don't see.   With the small addition to the shop and another 6 months of training we can get another full time guy or two and get product back down to 3 to 4 weeks.  It's been around 8.5 weeks all summer and shows no signs of changing anytime soon.


On another note, someone with the Treasures tipped me off about JJ's new 6CA7 and it's a winner.  I am now shipping all Zen TORII's with this 6CA7 in place the of EL34's.  Very nice indeed.

-Steve

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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #87 - 08/31/11 at 02:02:47
 
Steve, Can you explain what you hear from the Shuguangs compared to the JJ 6CA7?
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #88 - 08/31/11 at 07:13:32
 
I understand Steve. Your right and you don't rush a good thing. When it arrives it arrives. I told myself I'm not calling Sarah, she has better things to do. Yes, the new 6CA7's........I look forward to hearing them.

Cheers, Stone of Tone.........and nice new addition to the shop! You are busy.

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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #89 - 08/31/11 at 16:26:06
 
Absolutely. In this line of work, right is preferable to fast.
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #90 - 09/08/11 at 03:06:25
 
awesome input, Steve.  I'll be picking up a quad in the next month or so to compare with my treasures and see what is what.  

The price is certainly right.
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #91 - 09/08/11 at 03:13:56
 
I am the tipster and yes, I think you will like them. The Treasures are not in any way bad, its just the JJ's sound more like music. To me this proves that yes, there IS a Santa Claus!
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« Last Edit: 09/08/11 at 03:35:04 by datman »  

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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #92 - 09/08/11 at 06:15:28
 
My Treasures had about 500-600 hours on them when I learned about the JJs. So, I am not at all sure that I had them, and definitely not my Toriis fully broken in yet. So, when I swapped the JJs in on Torii #2, I am sure I was swapping in a "volatile" test bed. Among other things, the Toriis were not fully broken in and the JJs were still fresh.  Still, I took some notes and made some preliminary observations:

1. The JJ 6CA7 tubes are much more musical and engaging than the stock JJs out of the box.

2. The JJs are definitely a much netter value than the Treasures. There really is no contest.

3. But the JJs are not, to my ears more musical than the Treasures I have played for several hundred hours. Granted, that is likely an unfair comparison, but it is the only one I can make right now. The Treasures are both more accurate and more engaging, a good—but expensive—combo.

But if I had to do it all over again from scratch, I would almost certainly opt for the JJs. If I hadn't already spent the money, I wouldn't spend it in the first instance and likely won't again. YMMV.
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« Last Edit: 09/08/11 at 06:16:34 by Pale Rider »  

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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #93 - 09/14/11 at 19:33:12
 
Welp, I sold my quad of Winged "C" el34s that came with the Torii and used the proceeds to order up some JJ 6CA7s.  If nothing else, it sounds like they'll be a great backup tube to my black treasures, which I am digging.

If the performance is close enough, maybe I'll even sell the BTs to re-coupe some funds and consider the JJs a 'free' upgrade over stock.
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #94 - 09/14/11 at 21:14:15
 
That's what i did and boy am I happy that I did.
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« Last Edit: 09/16/11 at 04:36:27 by datman »  

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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #95 - 09/14/11 at 21:56:01
 
Gopher,

Please let us know your thoughts comparing what you like and don't like about the two once the JJs are all burned in. I had a set and after about 80 hours they were beginning to sound pretty impressive in many ways, but then one went funky....some breakup when the music saturated. I have a replacement quad coming, but just when I was thinking I was beginning to hear what the tubes were about! I am so over burnin Sad

Datman,

My guess is these could easily need 150 hrs or more to get the full feel of them. Do you recall?
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #96 - 09/14/11 at 22:20:31
 
They seem to improve quite a bit for the first 50 hours. The improvement continues after this but a a slower rate. At this point I do believe the JJ's are superior to the Treasures. Who knew? Mine was the first Torii built with Treasures as output tubes instead of SED's.
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #97 - 09/16/11 at 01:43:47
 
They're due to arrive tomorrow from UPS.  I don't know if I'll throw them in for Friday's session (assuming I have one) or wait till I go to bed and leave 'em on playing tones.

I have little patience for burn in.  In most instances I PREFER buying used for that reason.  That said, it should be fun.
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #98 - 09/16/11 at 01:50:55
 
Gopher, I am with you on burnin, and from my experience with the JJs I would tend toward the tones all night if you can do that. And probably the next night too!
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #99 - 09/16/11 at 06:11:20
 
I'm liking all this input about the JJ's now coming with the Torii. I am going to hook my new III up to my Dish Network Box/DVR and let Serius Sat. music play through it for 150 hours and watch some TV too here and there of course.

Stone of Tone
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