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Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes (Read 41735 times)
Pale Rider
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Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
06/12/11 at 17:58:43
 
I noticed that Steve offers a quad of the Shuguang 6CA7-Z Treasures as an option on the Torii Mk III. Has anyone ordered these or heard them in their Torii? They get great reviews in other amplifiers, and cryo'ed Winged C SEDs are pushing up into their price range. My big question is whether the Shuguang is an actual EL34 for Hazen Grid purposes. Thanks!
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Pale Rider
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #1 - 06/12/11 at 18:58:36
 
Just so my question is clear, this piece is on the Tori Mk III page:
Quote:
The TORII uses the famous EL34  / 6CA7 output tube which is the only popular audio tube with all it's grids separately connected.  This means the TORII has complete control over each of these grids and can for lack of a better phrase - Have it's way with them.  The result is a mid-range transparency and better sense of timing not obtainable with anything else. 

I read this as saying that the Shuguang will activate the Hazen Grid.
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Rivieraranch
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #2 - 06/13/11 at 03:11:22
 
Unless I am mistaken the EL34 is the European designation for an American 6CA7.
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Pale Rider
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #3 - 06/13/11 at 03:24:46
 
RR, seems you are spot on.
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datman
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #4 - 06/13/11 at 05:31:22
 
I had my Torii III built a year ago with Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z tubes and can say they sound magnificent.  All of the characteristic midrange purity with superb performance at the extremes complements of the Hazen Grid mod. I now think the Shuguangs are the best 6CA7/EL34 currently available.
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Pale Rider
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #5 - 06/13/11 at 13:52:27
 
Thanks much datman. I have read nothing but good about these. I plan to order two quads but to break in my Toriis with V-caps in with the stock. Did you get V-Caps in yours?

UPDATE 20110613: Shuguangs ordered. Two quads. The Grant Fidelity/Audio For Less folks are great. I have already received my Purolator shipping notice less than two hours later. And as of the morning of 20110614, the tubes have left Calgary.
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« Last Edit: 06/14/11 at 14:38:53 by Pale Rider »  

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Pale Rider
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #6 - 06/13/11 at 13:56:44
 
By the way, this post over at Steve Hoffman mentions the Shuguangs and Jeff's evolving impressions of the amp.
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datman
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #7 - 06/13/11 at 18:35:23
 
No VCAPS. I figure the caps Steve uses in his amps are what he considers audiophile grade. This is more than good enough for me. The one upgrade I did do is to use ceramic tube sockets for longevity.
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« Last Edit: 06/13/11 at 18:36:06 by datman »  

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Pale Rider
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #8 - 06/13/11 at 18:51:59
 
Hey datman, any chance of seeing a pic of your Torii? I am betting those black Shuguangs look pretty slick.

I don't disagree with you on the quality of caps selected by Steve. I purchased the V-cap option in part for that "quest for elusive perfection," but also because I have been pleased with whatever contribution they made in my Taboo, and I thought that if and when the dire day might come when I have to part with my Torii, the resell value would be good.

FWIW, I do not plan to ever resell. I genuinely see me passing these on to children.
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« Last Edit: 06/13/11 at 21:07:16 by Pale Rider »  

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Pale Rider
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #9 - 06/17/11 at 00:22:08
 
Been watching the painful delivery progress of my tubes. Grant Fidelity shipped them promptly, but this online report makes me hope they are packed very, very well [note in inverse order]:

2011-06-16      10:25 AM      Departure via ROSEBURG, OR, US depot      
2011-06-16      08:05 AM      Arrived at via ROSEBURG, OR, US depot      
2011-06-16      04:09 AM      Departure via PORTLAND, OR, US depot      
2011-06-16      03:16 AM      Arrived at via PORTLAND, OR, US depot      
2011-06-15      11:04 PM      Departure via SEATTLE, WA, US depot      
2011-06-15      05:35 PM      Arrived at via SEATTLE, WA, US depot      
2011-06-15      05:25 PM      Departure via SEATTLE, WA, US depot      
2011-06-15      04:43 PM      Departure via SEATTLE, WA, US depot      
2011-06-15      03:45 PM      Import via SEATTLE, WA, US depot      
2011-06-15      09:30 AM      Arrived at via SEATTLE, WA, US depot      
2011-06-15      01:20 AM      Departure via RICHMOND, BC, CA depot      
2011-06-15      12:52 AM      Departure via RICHMOND, BC, CA depot      
2011-06-14      08:34 PM      Export via RICHMOND, BC, CA depot      
2011-06-14      01:41 PM      Arrived at via RICHMOND, BC, CA depot      
2011-06-14      02:50 AM      Departure via CALGARY, AB, CA depot      
2011-06-13      09:50 PM      Export via CALGARY, AB, CA depot      
2011-06-13      06:45 PM      Export via CALGARY, AB, CA depot      
2011-06-13      06:35 PM      Arrived For Export Processing via CALGARY, AB depot      
2011-06-13      03:29 PM      Picked up by Purolator at Reception from Grant Fidelity at CALGARY, AB via CALGARY, AB depot      
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Lon
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #10 - 06/17/11 at 00:36:26
 
They're going to be fine!
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Pale Rider
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #11 - 06/17/11 at 00:41:19
 
Cool
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Pale Rider
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #12 - 06/17/11 at 21:47:23
 
They are on the local delivery truck. Should have them soon. Cannot wait to plug them into brand new Toriis. In the meantime, when they arrive, I will just stare at them, like some old lecher in South Beach.
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Pale Rider
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #13 - 06/17/11 at 21:48:24
 
Dang, if they sound half as good as they look, this will be fun:


A few more:

Box

Tubeset

Individual Tube
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« Last Edit: 06/17/11 at 21:54:26 by Pale Rider »  

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Lon
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #14 - 06/17/11 at 21:56:27
 
Man. . those cost too much! But they're pretty.
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Lon
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #15 - 06/17/11 at 21:57:26
 
Will be interesting to hear what Steve might say about them.
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Pale Rider
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #16 - 06/17/11 at 22:06:01
 
They so cost too much, Lon. You are completely correct. Like great wine, first class to Asia, and mistakes you hope you won't repeat. But man oh man, once in a while, you just have to treat yourself. Shuguangs on top of V-Caps...................[and Steve is selling them, too, of course.]
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« Last Edit: 06/17/11 at 22:07:17 by Pale Rider »  

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Lon
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #17 - 06/17/11 at 22:16:45
 
I fully understand. . . I've been treating myself far too much when I should stop. . . bought myself another guitar, a Martin D-15S, was too cheap to pass up and a lovely guitar now only made in the custom line. Love the 15 series, I have the smallest, an 00-15, until now my only acoustic guitar.

My one trepidation is. . . I've never found yet a tube made in China that I really liked, though I've only tried Ruby and Valve Art, but they were disappointing in comparison with US and European tubes. But. .  I'm sure these are awesome. Can't wait to hear reports.
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Pale Rider
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #18 - 06/17/11 at 22:28:08
 
One of my colleagues is a Conrad-Johnson owner. He thought they looked gorgeous, but said the same thing: "Chinese? Really" I pointed him to the reviews, including this one, which I found quite entertaining [though of a different tube], likewise here and here, and this one, the reviews on the site, the 6 Moons review, etc. And the fact that Steve sells them as an upgrade gave me some comfort I wasn't taking too much of a chance.
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Lon
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #19 - 06/17/11 at 22:58:50
 
I read that review when posted earlier. .. I agree that it's a promising review.

I can't see myself ordering them for some time to come, but who knows, maybe one day! I'll stick with Winged C and Mullard reissues til then,
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Pale Rider
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #20 - 06/17/11 at 23:09:58
 
I hear ya!  I've got plenty of much more modestly priced tubes that I am loving on. Right now, I just swapped between the stock SV83s and the cryo'ed military CP15P-EV in my Taboo. At first, I wasn't sure I heard a big difference, but the stock SV83 seem a little more forward with a bit tubbier [though pleasant] bass. I paid $3 apiece for 11 of them from a fellow forum member. Can't beat that with a stick.
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kana813
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #21 - 06/18/11 at 18:38:51
 
Pale Rider,

Did you hear the TORII Mk.3 before you ordered two of them with V-Caps?
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #22 - 06/18/11 at 19:03:33
 
Quote:
Did you hear the TORII Mk.3 before you ordered two of them with V-Caps?

kana813, I did not.
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kana813
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #23 - 06/18/11 at 19:50:12
 
Gee, two V-Cap TORIIs that can't be returned and two sets of Shuguangs, that's a very big leap of faith.

I'm not as confident, so I ordered the stock version. Plus, if I was going to upgrade the caps, I'd rather have Auri-Ts.
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #24 - 06/18/11 at 20:07:31
 
That is a big leap of faith. PR has had a Taboo though, and once you have a Zen amp, you believe that another Zen amp could be da bomb.

I think he's going to love the amps, without any doubt.

Hope you both manage to get yours PDQ!
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« Last Edit: 06/18/11 at 20:10:28 by Lon »  

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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #25 - 06/18/11 at 20:25:33
 
Lon said it. Three things factor into my confidence: (1) the passion and goals/theory of the designer; (2) the enthusiasm of other customers; (3) my experience with the Taboo (which has V-caps), that validated #1 and #2.

So, when Steve offers the V-caps and the Treasures as the only "real" upgrades on the Torii, and his pricing for them is also very reasonable, that speaks persuasively to me. I ordered the former with the amp build, of course, while I ordered the Shuguangs separately after doing more research and knowing I had plenty of time before the Toriis arrive.

As for the Auri-Ts, to each their own; one reason it is a great hobby. But given my confidence in Steve's voicing of the amps, I am comfortable with the V-caps. Plus, while I have plenty of experience soldering and building, I have no desire to open up a Torii and swap caps myself. The V-caps were the only real way to go for me.
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #26 - 06/18/11 at 21:10:04
 
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #27 - 06/18/11 at 21:13:56
 
Hey Lon, thanks for that link. I had missed that one. I especially enjoyed the recommendation of the "recording issued by Tone-Pearls Records in Ireland: Chopin and Debussy: Piano Music in a Church performed solo by the Hungarian born musician Endre Hegedus." Ordered the DVD of the higher-res files.
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« Last Edit: 06/18/11 at 21:29:39 by Pale Rider »  

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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #28 - 06/18/11 at 23:18:18
 
Lon, you may be interested in this: based on the rec in one of the reviews (i.e., that the purported grading of STs by some oline retailers is baloney), I decided to order a set of the STs from a Chinese reseller on fleabay. They are much cheaper there. I plan to test them in my B&K when they get here. My own inverse version of dollar cost averaging. Wink
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #29 - 06/19/11 at 00:12:57
 
Cool. Keep me posted how they test out, and whether they match well etc.  I did read that in that one review and wonder.
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kana813
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #30 - 06/19/11 at 03:25:08
 
PR,
I admire your commitment.

Hopefully, we'll both get our amps this month.





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Pale Rider
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #31 - 06/19/11 at 04:13:32
 
k, did Steve share what number in queue you are? He told me I was 8 out of 54, I believe.
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kana813
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #32 - 06/19/11 at 04:43:39
 
I didn't get a number, but I spoke to Sarah last week and she said my amp could be ready to ship on 6/24.
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #33 - 06/19/11 at 05:21:15
 
Cool. Congrats. What base did you get?
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kana813
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #34 - 06/19/11 at 05:52:14
 
Walnut.

If I keep the amp, I'll have a custom base made from Ohai or Bubinga.
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #35 - 06/19/11 at 13:27:47
 
Nice woods. So, right now, you ordered it with the standard base? The black figured one, or modern walnut?
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #36 - 06/21/11 at 03:04:23
 
Hi All,

I've researched the Treasures many times recently and am still "on the fence"....here's my reasoning:

When I got my Torii III (with V-Caps and attenuator option), I felt like I upgraded for things that would last for a long while. I've posted previously about my thoughts on the amp. The thing that I was most unsure about was how the Winged C's would perform. After break-in (1000 plus hours for the V-Caps), I was smitten. Just to make sure that I was mentally attached to my "inner stereo self", I did an A/B with some RFT EL34's. The result was that they were "different". No clear winner, just different. And NO I'm not getting into a tube review. But the supplied Winged C's were a lot cheaper than the RFT's.

So I guess I'm waiting for either someone to knock me out of the tree, or bring me up some food regarding the Treasures.

I still believe that this amp is the true "don't wake me, I"m dreaming" bargain in audio with the current output tubes Steve provides. He does his homework and voices his equipment beautifully.





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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #37 - 06/21/11 at 03:23:33
 
Steve's been shipping with JJs, which I'm sure are very good as well in the Torii; I've used them in the Integrated and the SE34 Monoblocks to great success.

I really like the Winged Cs as well, it's a great tube in the Torii. I don't doubt that the Treasures are great. . . but right now, til I go to work again, they're out of my price range. Anyoone want to give me a job wiht an outrageous salary? Smiley
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #38 - 06/21/11 at 03:30:50
 
C.E.: you won't get any argument from me about how you see it. From everything I have read, the Torii is extraordinary. And I bet it doesn't need any upgrades to sound extraordinary. Still, as I mentioned earlier, Steve offers two upgrades that could impact sonics. I decided to try them both.
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #39 - 06/21/11 at 03:35:39
 
Pale,

Ok...maybe I was hoping that you'd get some Winged C's as well and give us some comments?....

How close are you on delivery?
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #40 - 06/21/11 at 04:05:18
 
I think the Torii ships with JJs, but I have some SEDs as well. I plan to break the Toriis in with stock, and then switch to the STs.

I am not sure where I am in queue. I think Bob is trying to prioritize a number of different builds, including my cherry bases.
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #41 - 06/24/11 at 23:33:38
 
PR, have you heard any status on your amps?
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« Last Edit: 06/25/11 at 05:22:59 by kana813 »  
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #42 - 06/25/11 at 00:05:52
 
I think Bob has to find a way to fit my cherry bases into his workflow. I believe the Ultra is built, and the Toriis may be as well.

I got my other Treasures today. Plan to test them next week. They don't come in the fancy box, and they have a paper label on the base, but otherwise they look identical.
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #43 - 06/25/11 at 00:35:41
 
Pale.... Squeeze I did. Finish wasn't dry enough to ship today, but they will go out on Monday. As far as I know both Torii's are done along with the Ultra.

Steve told me to take a break from speakers and get on the amp bases. He had a ton of customs, which I did them all. I even did the cherry for you ZS so he won't have to wait on me again.

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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #44 - 06/25/11 at 00:52:25
 
Who appointed the Shuguang Company as the holy grail of high priced tubes? I frankly am skeptical about the whole deal. I believe that the Russians and U.S. NOS will be superior to the Chinese stuff.
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« Last Edit: 06/25/11 at 00:52:48 by Rivieraranch »  

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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #45 - 06/25/11 at 01:56:01
 
Rivieraranch, I might be the person that appointed the Shuguand Co. the Holy Grail. I got behind in my paperwork and just signed everything thrust in front of me with out reading everything over. Sorry, next time I will do my due dilligence. You don't want to ask how the "Great Recession" really started, lets just say I won't ever dump a Pepsi on my desk again.
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #46 - 06/25/11 at 02:13:15
 
Bob: that is outstanding news. Thanks much. I can only imagine how many extra hours you had to pump into your schedule. Much, much appreciated.

RR: I don't know that anyone appointed Shuguang the holy grail, but I do know that, if you read those reviews, it is very clear that some people think the Treasures give the best NOS a run for their money. The specific bet you are making has been called by some. And as noted before, Decware itself offers them as the tube kit upgrade for the Toriis. For me, that made it worth the try.

Donnie, at last I know the truth. Knowing who to blame is huge. Wink
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« Last Edit: 06/25/11 at 16:53:25 by Pale Rider »  

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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #47 - 06/25/11 at 05:31:53
 
PR, looks like you'll be enjoying your new amps by this time next week.

Heard today that mine is being built. Cool
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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #48 - 06/25/11 at 16:52:17
 
Congrats kana. Am keeping my fingers crossed about delivery. Not sure they will be here before the holiday, but it's still all good, because I did not expect anything before mid-July. Lets see, three months ago, I owned zero Decware amps. Next month, four.
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« Last Edit: 06/25/11 at 16:57:31 by Pale Rider »  

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Re: Question About Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z Tubes
Reply #49 - 06/25/11 at 17:51:45
 
Hey . . . you're almost caught up with me. I own five. Though the first, the 27th Zen amp built, I might never get back from a friend who has "borrowed" it six years or so ago. . .:)
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