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SE84ZS As Center Channel Amp? (Read 3370 times)
Pale Rider
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SE84ZS As Center Channel Amp?
05/28/11 at 22:44:55
 
Hi All:

The last piece of my combo 2-channel/5.1 channel setup is the center amp.  My speakers are 3 pairs of ERRs, with two serving as center channel. Preamp is Ultra, with front and rear powered by Torii.

I am leaning toward the SE84ZS bridged in mono driving two ERRs (firing backward toward the screen, and I believe wired in parallel) for the center channel.

Any thoughts on the amp in this role? My other option looks like an SE84C+, but I like the options available with the ZS. Electrically, it would seem both amps should sound nearly identical, though I would likely opt for V-caps on the ZS.

Thoughts, comments, and suggestions much appreciated. Thanks.

Greg
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Decware: Ultra | Torii MKIII [2] | SE84ZS | Taboo MkIII Sources: Synology 1812+ | Baetis Revolution | PWD DAC MKII | Lumin Network Player | Mytek 192 | Oppo 105 DSP: DEQX Mate | Emotiva Outputs: ERR [6] + Servo Subs | LCD-2 & other cans
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Lon
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Re: SE84ZS As Center Channel Amp?
Reply #1 - 05/28/11 at 22:49:02
 
I wouldn't fire them at the screen. . . .

That's interesting, which amp to use. . . . Wow. I'd ask Steve. I can think of pluses and minuses for the use of several amps. I'd probably lean towards an Integrated made mono, or with a Y cable.
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« Last Edit: 05/28/11 at 22:50:01 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+PWD MkII,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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opnly_bafld
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Re: SE84ZS As Center Channel Amp?
Reply #2 - 05/28/11 at 23:05:08
 
Lon,

Quote from Steve in this thread: http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1295812916/0#0

The ERR's will work fine.  In fact my room is almost the same as yours except the ceiling is cathedral.   I have used the ERR's placed 24 inches away from the front wall which is my screen and point them at the screen (wall) rather than directly at the listening position.  This direct reflection increases the size of the image.   The low ceiling just above the screen (like yours) serves to reflect sound back onto the screen in an even wash.  The result is voices actually track the performer on the screen when they talk.  I spent 2 years trying to achieve that effect because with a screen that big it sounds completely stupid to have the voices coming from a small point either above, below, or centered behind the screen.

To keep the efficiency matching with the the Left and Right, I use two ERR's for the center channel.  Being pointed at the wall, a single center channel is 3dB quieter, so we use two.
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Lon
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Re: SE84ZS As Center Channel Amp?
Reply #3 - 05/28/11 at 23:16:48
 
Okay, cool. I still don't think I would do it myself as I have a 40" tv with 56" between the top of it and the ceiling (I just measured) and my TV is not wall mounted but on a redwood stand and the front is 30" form the wall. I don't do surround though, never have liked it to be honest, and two Radial speakers in two channel mode is perfectly surround enough for me. And I have the speakers pointing forward, and the voices seem to come from the screen, that's the beauty of the Radial design.

You're going to have a helluva system!
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« Last Edit: 05/28/11 at 23:20:50 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+PWD MkII,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Pale Rider
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Re: SE84ZS As Center Channel Amp?
Reply #4 - 05/29/11 at 18:33:28
 
Lon:

My current screen is set up somewhat like yours but in a wide cathedral ceiling setting. It's a 52 inch on a standard credenza style A/V cabinet.

Here is where my embarrassing admission comes in: I long ago got rid of my nice speakers, and when I moved to all-headphone listening for hi-fi, for years, I did not listen to any audio in my home. Audio was what came out of the TV or some sort of iPod appliance device.

Then, in 2006, I stepped into home theater, with a decent Panasonic plasma and Denon rig. The speakers I used were the widely advertised Orb Audio speakers. (I will wait for the laughter to die down here.) I at one time had six-foot tall Jack Caldwell ribbon speakers and isobarik-loaded Dynaudio subwoofers. A very nice setup. I had paired them up with a variety of amps over the years, and so long as I had them set up properly, the sweet spot was indeed sweet. And impressively, they could fill a warehouse with sound, which for a while they did, when I had my offices in  a converted warehouse. The Orbs were not that setup. But, the Orbs were easy, cheap, and filled a modest room with sound tolerable for a movie or football game.

My hi-fi listening remained on headphones. Very good heaphones and amps both on desktop and portable listening. My headphone portable amp experience exposed me to some favorable reviews of Decware equipment over on Head-Fi. I started following and reading the Decware story and Steve's theories. Theories that he was making real at a value price. Flash forward to my Audez'e LCD-2 headphones. Suddenly, my high-end headphone amp did not have the power those cans required. I looked around, re-encountered the Taboo, and discovered that others on Head-Fi were singing its praises, and eventually made the plunge. Hadn't owned any tube gear in decades. And I was hooked. And I wanted that fidelity at home. Listening to and watching the 3D BluRay of the AIX Goldberg Acoustica at home, I wanted the audio realism I could hear on the Audez'e cans to match the video I was seeing.

I was always fascinated by the ERRs (having owned and loved some Ohm Walsh speakers at one time), but not in a position to have two systems for reasons described elsewhere. And then the Ultra came along.  Case closed, jury verdict in, wallet scheduled to be shot at dawn. The screen is coming off the credenza and going back on the wall. The credenza is out, to be replaced by two ZRACKs on either side of the center ERRs firing back per Steve's suggestion. Not perfect, because for audio-only, that screen will present a challenge. But it is addressable. Can't wait.
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« Last Edit: 05/29/11 at 18:46:51 by Pale Rider »  

Decware: Ultra | Torii MKIII [2] | SE84ZS | Taboo MkIII Sources: Synology 1812+ | Baetis Revolution | PWD DAC MKII | Lumin Network Player | Mytek 192 | Oppo 105 DSP: DEQX Mate | Emotiva Outputs: ERR [6] + Servo Subs | LCD-2 & other cans
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Lon
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Re: SE84ZS As Center Channel Amp?
Reply #5 - 05/29/11 at 18:37:50
 
No laughter from me here. I think you're going to love the ERRs. I hope to have a pair one day. (Long story). And to me they are nearly surround sound themselves. The Ultra is going to be an amazing device and I know you'll put it to proper use!
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+PWD MkII,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Pale Rider
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Re: SE84ZS As Center Channel Amp?
Reply #6 - 05/29/11 at 19:12:44
 
Lon, I think you are right about the ERRs nearly being surround in themselves. I have this weird fear that 6 ERRs may overwhelm my room and cancel out each other's benefits. But Steve's papers and comments linked above suggest otherwise.
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Decware: Ultra | Torii MKIII [2] | SE84ZS | Taboo MkIII Sources: Synology 1812+ | Baetis Revolution | PWD DAC MKII | Lumin Network Player | Mytek 192 | Oppo 105 DSP: DEQX Mate | Emotiva Outputs: ERR [6] + Servo Subs | LCD-2 & other cans
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Lon
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"Love without
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Re: SE84ZS As Center Channel Amp?
Reply #7 - 05/29/11 at 19:15:59
 
I would definitely trust Steve in this (and other) matters. I can imagine being immersed in ERR sound. Would be amazing. Maybe if I win the Lottery and can buy a big enough house to have that sort of dedicated space. Wow. You're going to be starting an audio adventure.
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+PWD MkII,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Pale Rider
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Re: SE84ZS As Center Channel Amp?
Reply #8 - 06/15/11 at 17:57:58
 
As near as I can tell, the only real downside of the 84ZS in the center channel is its lack of Hazen Grid. And I am not sure that's all that big a deal for tonality. The SV83 should do just fine for the center channel output tubes, and I can definitely match the input tube and rectifier with what I have in the Toriis.

CORRECTION: the SE84ZS has the Hazen Grid, I believe, and so should sound just fine. Actually, should sound just fine either way. Cheesy
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« Last Edit: 08/12/11 at 02:50:37 by Pale Rider »  

Decware: Ultra | Torii MKIII [2] | SE84ZS | Taboo MkIII Sources: Synology 1812+ | Baetis Revolution | PWD DAC MKII | Lumin Network Player | Mytek 192 | Oppo 105 DSP: DEQX Mate | Emotiva Outputs: ERR [6] + Servo Subs | LCD-2 & other cans
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Pale Rider
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Re: SE84ZS As Center Channel Amp?
Reply #9 - 08/12/11 at 02:48:09
 
My ZS arrived today, so now I am going to be able to find out just how good a center channel can sound.
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Decware: Ultra | Torii MKIII [2] | SE84ZS | Taboo MkIII Sources: Synology 1812+ | Baetis Revolution | PWD DAC MKII | Lumin Network Player | Mytek 192 | Oppo 105 DSP: DEQX Mate | Emotiva Outputs: ERR [6] + Servo Subs | LCD-2 & other cans
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Pale Rider
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Re: SE84ZS As Center Channel Amp?
Reply #10 - 08/16/11 at 21:51:25
 
A few questions about my SE84ZS, and my apologies for sounding like a complete idiot, but I could not find the answers in the manual:

1. I will be running it in bridged mono mode. Which way does the Stereo/Mono switch get flipped for this purpose?

2. Which input jack on the SE84ZS should I use for the Center channel coming from my Ultra? Left or right?

3. I understand the jumper wire between the speaker terminals on the SE84ZS. I plan to connect the speaker wire to my two ERR center speakers. Do I also run a jumper wire between the two ERRs, or should I run them in parallel?

Thanks!
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Decware: Ultra | Torii MKIII [2] | SE84ZS | Taboo MkIII Sources: Synology 1812+ | Baetis Revolution | PWD DAC MKII | Lumin Network Player | Mytek 192 | Oppo 105 DSP: DEQX Mate | Emotiva Outputs: ERR [6] + Servo Subs | LCD-2 & other cans
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ZYGI
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Re: SE84ZS As Center Channel Amp?
Reply #11 - 08/16/11 at 23:32:26
 
Greg,

I read the owners manual to see if it was any different that the units I had...I see no difference to what I had....

So here is what aI would do. The input switch is for two different sources, as far as I understand it.  With either input  "A" or "B" you would need a "Y" connector to feed the same signal to each side of the amp.  You can use either A or B you just have to feed both sides of which ever input you use.

As far as hooking up the ERR's, you could run a separate set of wires for both speakers or daisy chain them by running a jumper from one ERR to the other. You'll want to run them in parallel. If your going to use a jumper from one speaker to the other, just hook the reds to the other red and black to the other ERR's black.

Hope this helps,
ZYGI
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« Last Edit: 08/16/11 at 23:35:18 by ZYGI »  

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Pale Rider
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Re: SE84ZS As Center Channel Amp?
Reply #12 - 08/17/11 at 21:42:49
 
Thanks Bob; I like the idea of parallel operation of the ERRs, because I believe that should effectively boost my power, right?

I received the following reply from Styeve today; as you read his reply, remember that my ZS was built with the Stereo/Mono switch, so that I don't have to use a Y cable:

Quote:
I don't know which way the switch goes for mono, you'll just have to switch it both ways and see.  Once in mono, both input jacks are effectively tied together so it won't matter which one you use.

Since you are going to be using a pair of ERR's for the center speakers you will not use a jumper wire.  Just have them connected one per channel in the normal fashion.


My matrix switcher and 5.1 switch arrive today, the new display tomorrow. The house will be rocking this weekend. I have been using Inception for HT testing, and visually and aurally, it rocks.
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Decware: Ultra | Torii MKIII [2] | SE84ZS | Taboo MkIII Sources: Synology 1812+ | Baetis Revolution | PWD DAC MKII | Lumin Network Player | Mytek 192 | Oppo 105 DSP: DEQX Mate | Emotiva Outputs: ERR [6] + Servo Subs | LCD-2 & other cans
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