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E88cc for se34I.2+ ? (Read 3491 times)
bladesmith
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E88cc for se34I.2+ ?
04/07/11 at 15:25:35
 
I have been looking at various NOS tubes to try in my SE34I.2+ when it arrives here in the UK. I have been looking at the Siemens E88CC. Will these be a drop in option, are they the same as a 6DJ8 or a 6922? Can't wait till my amp gets here; it has been a long 5 weeks. I have a tube amp already but I am eager to hear how good the Decware amps sound with my DM944 speakers. Has anyone tried the silver ribbon interconnects with this amp and compared then to an off the shelf interconnect and if so; how does the Decware interconnect compare?
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proud_indian
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Re: E88cc for se34I.2+ ?
Reply #1 - 04/08/11 at 06:00:44
 
Yes. You can use the 88's in place of 6922.

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bladesmith
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Re: E88cc for se34I.2+ ?
Reply #2 - 04/08/11 at 12:59:45
 
That is great news thanks for letting me know. Richard.
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will
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Re: E88cc for se34I.2+ ?
Reply #3 - 04/11/11 at 01:19:13
 
bladesmith,

ECC88s are european designation for 6DJ8s and E88CCs are 6922s. 6N1P, 6N23P, and 6N2P are variations on the theme, the 6N2P higher gain, and they all work in your amp. I don't have it now, but I remember I liked 6N2Ps in my SE34I.2... I had not explored the NOS world much at that time though. Those 6N2Ps took a while to open up,  but once settled in were very satisfying, and for my listening tastes and 94 Db speakers, the extra gain was welcome for quiet recordings and especially quiet DVDs. I listen pretty loud though.

NOS Siemens E88CCs are consistently noted to be very transparent and good 6922s, and the ones I have fit that description. Though I really like E88CCs, I also like the 6DJ8/ECC88 family. If the E88CCs tend toward being articulate, accurate, balanced and usually a bit warm, I might call the ECC88s their slightly quirky cousins. I generally find the ECC88s to perhaps have a bit more midrange presence and texture, especially upper midrange....often with a slightly more offbeat balance that can be ingratiating, but some are pretty balanced as well like the Seimens ECC88 from the 60s. Another consideration is that the NOS E88CCs are generally higher end construction and supposed to last longer. I can't say which I like better, and of course our systems, rooms and tastes play into it. I have found http://www.nostubestore.com/ to be a very good source and is closer to you being in Turkey. Koray, the guy who runs it, is a great resource for tube information too. Also, he often has slightly used tubes for a good value and I like this, getting burned in tubes and exploring more inexpensively. He will have things not listed on the site too, so asking is good if you want something specific.

From my experience, the Decware interconnects will blow away anything "off the shelf" as well as any others in the price range I have tried. I like them a lot. I have not tried any more expensive than the Decware ones, but believe Steve's position that they will equal or outperform cables many times the cost. This is just how his stuff tends to be in my opinion.

Hope this helps, and enjoy your amp. I loved the sound of that amp, but finally sprung for more power and got the Zen Torii. I just put in some early 60's Siemens/Halske E88CC's and am amazed at their transparent beauty. Thanks for the reminder!
Wink
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« Last Edit: 04/11/11 at 02:54:19 by will »  

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bladesmith
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Re: E88cc for se34I.2+ ?
Reply #4 - 04/11/11 at 10:24:28
 
Hi Will,
I sprung for a pair of NOS siemens E88cc (grey shield 1960's). I have never heard them before but like you said they seem to have a good rep across a few sites. Some say they are better than the telefunken E88cc. Fingers crossed they sound good. Thank you for the info on the Decware interconnects. I might get a pair in the next couple of months. I have allot of pairs of NOS tubes most in original boxes. RFT, RCA, Dumont, Valvo, Telefunken, Mullard and GE. The tubes are 12ax7/7025, 12au7/5814A and 6550A. I also have a load of good used and one NOS MIB 7025 clear top black plates which are pretty uncommon. I am not sure whether I should hang onto these tubes for a decade and make a raise of just sell them now. Tube rolling becomes a bit addictive. So you have had the SE and now you have a Tori. I did look at that amp but I just love SET amps. I did no end of searching for a good quality SET. They are not easy to find, well they are if you willing to lay out some seriously heavy money. Anyway, thank you for your help and comments on your experiences. Have a great week, Richard.
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will
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Re: E88cc for se34I.2+ ?
Reply #5 - 04/11/11 at 16:44:42
 
Richard,

I think you will be amazed by your SE34. If you catch the Decware bug, and some day want another good tool toward the end of the "Lost in the Music" experience, the ZSTAGE (gain stage) could be worth a look. It sounds great, and is really good for balancing the tone to taste for different recordings...Zstage voltage/volume nob up while turning the amp down gives more of that tube sound with more weight and bass. The opposite leans things down a bit. And if you are like me, and you occasionally want to get a little more volume from your SE34I.2, this is likely a good solution. It was designed with 12UA7 types, and they sound really good. I currently seem to prefer 12AT7s in mine, though who knows how long that will last. I am listening to a 12AU7 RCA cleartop now and it sounds amazing. The 5751 I have sounds good too. You can use 12AU7, 12AT7, or 12AX7/7025/5751. It only uses one tube, but just wanted to mention this in the context of whether to keep or sell old tubes at the moment. These sound like really good tubes...if you sold half of them you could probably buy a Zstage!

Jeez....sounds like I work for Decware!... I do admire their efforts toward a beautiful and complete musical experience and how it has enhanced my life experience!
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« Last Edit: 04/11/11 at 17:11:56 by will »  

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Lon
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Re: E88cc for se34I.2+ ?
Reply #6 - 04/11/11 at 17:23:24
 
I'm sure you'll be very happy with your SE34.  I have a model before the CCE Mod, which I like so much that even though I'm not using it I cringe to think of selling it. I might soon, but it's given me many hours of service and has a killer sound.

I was using 6N2P tubes (at Steve''s suggestion I think, after mine was built he was shipping these with them I think at least for a while). Great tubes for my purposes except that when I went to the living room/dining room as my main listening area I needed more power, and hence the Toriis started becoming my amps. The Toriis are amazing, but the SE34 is a winner of an amp.
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bladesmith
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Re: E88cc for se34I.2+ ?
Reply #7 - 04/11/11 at 20:24:20
 
Will, that zstage sounds interesting. Though I tend to be of the mind that less links in the chain= cleaner sound. Never the less an interesting suggestion. I have banged a load of tubes on eBay today along with a few other bits. I still and a box load of tubes left, all top notch NOS MIB stuff. Might sell most of that and just keep a few choice items. Yep, you do sound keen on Decware but then again this is their forum and the products do seem to have a good following. I can only comment on their DM944's at the moment. Cheers, Richard.

Lon, selling an amp to "upgrade" is not an easy thing to do especially if you like it and you think something else might be better. The torii amps look the business and I dare say they sound great. I have not heard an amazing amp yet. I think I have heard a couple of decent-good tube amps but nothing that I would say wow, that amp sounds amazing. Hence my excitement about getting the SE. I will be selling my amp to replace the funds that the SE34i.2+ took. I have upgraded all but 3 of the caps and all the tubes are NOS. The amp has a nice sound but the circuit is not clean cut enough. Think some of the detail is being lost in the plumbing. Saying that; it hits as hard as an amp costing much more than the lay out. I am hopeful that my Decware amp was either completed on Friday or today. Now the wait for shipping and rip off import duties. Still I am sure it will be worth it. I am re-capping my RCD965BXLE at the moment so it is quite a busy time. Fingers crossed everything drops into place. All the best, Richard.
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« Last Edit: 04/11/11 at 20:32:18 by bladesmith »  
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will
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Re: E88cc for se34I.2+ ?
Reply #8 - 04/11/11 at 21:11:40
 
Richard,

I would be very interested in your thoughts on the SE34I.2+ after it "blooms." Good luck!

Will
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Lon
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Re: E88cc for se34I.2+ ?
Reply #9 - 04/11/11 at 21:21:16
 
Richard, I think you're going to finally be amazed by an amp. Smiley I bet it ships tomorrow, seems Tuesday is shipping day.

As for the "less is cleaner" . . . well that's true to an extent. But adding a component like the ZStage (or the CSP2, or the ZBox) can indeed bring benefit. The ability to tailor the sound the way these allow you toois a great one. And I really don't feel they dampen the transparency in any significant way. For example I've found the CSP2 and ZBox to make a more significant change than NOS tubes generally do. Still, that's something down the road to consider, you'll be in amazement with the Integrated for weeks, months. . . Cheesy
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bladesmith
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Re: E88cc for se34I.2+ ?
Reply #10 - 04/12/11 at 00:43:43
 
Will- Yes sure no problem. Though I will not give an opinion until the amp has clocked up at least 50 hours. Think I read on the net that some tubes take near on 100 hours to be fully cooked as do most caps. I took a look at the zstage, looks like a good bit of kit as well. Perhaps after I have got a pair of interconnects. Ideally I would love a Pair of ERR speakers in dark brown or gloss black. It is the placement of them in the living room. Sadly my house is quite small and I do not have a room that I can dedicate to sound. Perhaps one day. They do look really unusual and if the DM944's are anything to go by I am sure they sound awesome. Cheers, Richard.

Lon- So you recon it might ship tomorrow. That would be great, I am very keen to hear this amp and to see the build quality. What does a valve phono stage combined with a valve amp sound like? A bit of a odd question as it is based on your hearing and opinion/experience, but I have often wondered if it would sound very sweet in the mids; almost sickly. Kind of like how 3 or 4 pairs of the same capacitor in an output compounds the cap's sonic characteristics. Or does it not work like that? Perhaps Decware gear compliments rather than compounds? I would be interested to get your angle. All the best, Richard.
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Lon
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Re: E88cc for se34I.2+ ?
Reply #11 - 04/12/11 at 05:34:20
 
Hey Richard, I'll gladly share my tube phono preamp experience. It is divided into two different sets of experiences: one with a Dynaco system and one with a Fisher receiver. I can compare these to the sound of solid state receiver phono sections I've had and the solid state Hafler phono preamp I own.

The Dynaco system had amp, preamp with phono, and a tuner, in a really nice custom built cablnet with built in full range ElectroVoice speakers.  I grew up with this system and I only remember it fondly. The Fisher was a roommates for some time and it was pretty nice sounding. Perhaps it was a bit slower-sounding than the Technics and Proton solid state I was using but it was warm and beefy in sound.

The Hafler I must say is the most accurate and balanced sounding phono preamp I've used. When I used it briefly with Decware amplification it sounded really clear and dynamic.

By the mid-nineties I was pretty much solidly a cd only guy who occasionally bought lps to hear the music and usually set up a turntable and phono preamp only then, and transferred the lps to cdr. I really only see the sense in setting up a system for one or the other, lp or cd, and by sheer volume of both playing material and listening time going to cd, that's what my system concentrates on.  My recent experience with vinyl is very limited.
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« Last Edit: 04/12/11 at 05:37:06 by Lon »  

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will
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Re: E88cc for se34I.2+ ?
Reply #12 - 04/12/11 at 07:50:16
 
Richard, Some tubes seem faster than others, and others slower, but it seems to me that it can take 50-75 hours for a lot of tubes to begin to shine. Caps, wire, and the rest....I was hearing shifts in my ZDAC for four weeks or so of 6-8 hours music a day....so more like 200 hrs. But I don't expect your amp to take that long! It is much simpler. Steve recommends cycles of 5 hrs on with music and five hours off to cool for as long as it takes for the amp to "bloom." The heating and cooling is supposed to help seat the caps while also burning in the rest.

Hope the amp comes soon and I look forward to your impressions.
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« Last Edit: 04/12/11 at 18:20:16 by will »  

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