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Isolation Transformers, Power Regenerators, etc. (Read 6116 times)
MarkBlair
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Re: Isolation Transformers, Power Regenerators, etc.
Reply #15 - 04/10/11 at 17:42:50
 
I guess there's no getting around this -- I'm probably going to have to buy a voltmeter that can measure whether the amp is within specs (1.5mV hum max) or not.  And if so, since I just purchased it, it should be covered under the lifetime warranty.  I'd just hate to be without it for the time that would be required so send it in and get it repaired.

I just wish I could think of a brilliant way to use my SPL meter to calculate what the noise level is based upon the noise level SPL.  So -- if anybody has any brilliant ideas on how do do this, I'm all ears!

Mark
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will
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Re: Isolation Transformers, Power Regenerators, etc.
Reply #16 - 04/10/11 at 19:01:07
 
Mark,

Volt meters are dirt cheap now, but unless you know you have totally clean power, good ground, cable and all, and if it is over 1.5 mV, I wonder how you can tell if it is the amp or the power, or a combination?

And I know what you mean about not wanting to send your beloved gear in for repair. Have you called Steve? He has been troubleshooting over the phone for years and knows these amps like no one else!
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« Last Edit: 04/10/11 at 19:03:00 by will »  

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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MarkBlair
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Re: Isolation Transformers, Power Regenerators, etc.
Reply #17 - 04/10/11 at 19:34:51
 
Good point, Will -- so I'll probably wait until my PS Audio Power Plant Premier arrives so I can see if/how it affects the hum.

Though I've posted details in the separate SE84C+ forum, the big picture is that at near field distances (about 30" away) with 90dB PMC TB2S+ speakers, no inputs connected, anp volume at max, only speakers connected, I can just barely hear a bit of hum (no audio, of course, since no inputs are connected), and the hum doesn't vary with the amp's volume knob setting.

Also, I've e-mailed Steve a copule of times, but I've gotten no response (an no response from the SE84C+ forum posting, either).

So in a few weeks (after getting my power pristine), I'll probably take your advice and try to give Steve a call about the hum issue.

But I'd still like more viewpoints on this from the forum...
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will
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Re: Isolation Transformers, Power Regenerators, etc.
Reply #18 - 04/10/11 at 20:07:56
 
Yes I get it. Sounds like pretty minor hum. Why not test it? If it is under 1.5 mV, you know it is at least acceptable to Steve. Seems like these things are so transparent that minor transformer hum could be easily excited and then very easily heard.

Hope you get more good insights!

And I can tell you that in my experience, Steve is a phone guy if you really want to get up with him. Seems he gets way too many emails to keep up.

Good Luck!
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« Last Edit: 04/10/11 at 20:08:51 by will »  

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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Lon
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Re: Isolation Transformers, Power Regenerators, etc.
Reply #19 - 04/10/11 at 20:57:55
 
Mark, it seems that this is a hum that you strain to hear from the listening position with no music playing, maybe not even hear it from your listening position? I've had those come and go in my system, and I just go "okay" and get into the music and I'm not bothered.  I'd recommend that approach if possible.

If you've gone through Steve's paper on hum, the next step is really just to call him up on the phone. No one knows more about these amps than he does. And he can steer you to "what it is."
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« Last Edit: 04/10/11 at 20:59:15 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Pale Rider
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Re: Isolation Transformers, Power Regenerators, etc.
Reply #20 - 04/29/11 at 18:39:47
 
FWIW, my Transcendent Balanced Power Supply kit arrived yesterday. It is an impressive, nicely done kit, with excellent step-by-step color instructions. Does not look difficult at all. Going to tackle it this weekend.
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Decware: Ultra | Torii MKIII [2] | SE84ZS | Taboo MkIII Sources: Synology 1812+ | Baetis Revolution | PWD DAC MKII | Lumin Network Player | Mytek 192 | Oppo 105 DSP: DEQX Mate | Emotiva Outputs: ERR [6] + Servo Subs | LCD-2 & other cans
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MarkBlair
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Re: Isolation Transformers, Power Regenerators, etc.
Reply #21 - 04/30/11 at 00:00:56
 
Lon - Sorry about the late reply.  Good advice!  I still need to get my act together and get a voltmeter that reads AC voltage that low.  But I read Steve's paper on hum troubleshooting, and it too seems to confirm that it's an issue with the amp.  But it comes down to needing to simply do the measurement to see whether it's out of spec of not.

Regardless, I really like the SE84C+ amp!  Even more so since I've added the PS Audio Power Plant Premier to my setup.  And I've just gotten the notice that the Decware speaker cables and interconnect that I ordered recently were just shipped -- so hopefully the sound will improve even more.

And Pale Rider, I'd love to know what effect your balanced power supply has on the sound...
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Lon
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Re: Isolation Transformers, Power Regenerators, etc.
Reply #22 - 04/30/11 at 00:13:07
 
Glad the Premier has been a beneficial addition. I think you'll really like the interconnects. I can't be without them now myself, any other interconnect just doesn't sound 100 percent right. And the speaker cables. . . well they take a very long time, a very long time to burn in completely or at least my pair does. They sound great, but bass shy for some time. But they are without exception the best speaker cables I've ever used and I just love their sound. . . or lack of sound.
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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MarkBlair
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Re: Isolation Transformers, Power Regenerators, etc.
Reply #23 - 04/30/11 at 07:42:57
 
Lon -

It's a bit off topic for this thread, but how long would you say it'll take to break-in the speaker cables -- and how about the interconnects, did they take as long?

And did you use a separate setup (that you could keep running all the time) to break in the speaker cables?  Regardless, would you recommend that?

Mark
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Lon
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Re: Isolation Transformers, Power Regenerators, et
Reply #24 - 04/30/11 at 13:23:09
 
Mark,

To be honest the speaker wires sounded as if they were breaking in for over a month in my system, and took even longer to fully flesh out the lower frequencies. That said, they still sounded magnificent as they were breaking in, better than any other cables I've owned, with the sweetest treble I'd ever had, so I was not unhappy to be listening to them break in, was just wondering and hoping the bass would come in and they did. These are the items that took the longest to break in of any that I've ever used. If you look in the thread about them on this forum you'll see my experience chronicled.

The interconnects have a similar break in cycle, but shorter. I think within two weeks they're fully operational and just get better slowly over time. There's a poster here who couldn't bear the sound of them raw and began to like them after a month or two of use in another system. That doesn't exactly match my experience, but they do season well over time.

The other thing to consider is there's no place to hide with these cables if you are feeding them mediocre sound. They're going to show you what you've got.
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Raduschka
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Re: Isolation Transformers, Power Regenerators, etc.
Reply #25 - 05/07/11 at 19:50:36
 
Hi,
I have a Tripplite iso transformer and am wondering if I should fit it with a thick gauge power cord instead of the rather thin one it was born with.
Thank you for any reaction
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« Last Edit: 05/08/11 at 00:16:55 by Raduschka »  
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Pale Rider
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Re: Isolation Transformers, Power Regenerators, etc.
Reply #26 - 05/08/11 at 00:11:04
 
Quote:
I have a Tripplite iso transformer and am wondering if I shoult fit it with a thick gauge power cord instead of the rather thin one it was born with.

Raduschka, I gotta believe that improving the wiring into that box will be a good thing. If you read Steve's piece about power cords, the thinking of "the more you can do to get your connections 'out of the way,' the better off your sound will be" makes sense. Not sure why TrippLie would go to the trouble of building an iso transformer while fitting it with a crummy cord, though the old free market driver of cutting costs comes to mind.  ;) anyway, is it hard-wired? I am still considering a Tipp Lite. Experiences reported here are mixed, but Steve has recommended them. Which model do you have?

I just finished correcting a builder's error in my Transcendent balanced power supply, and am looking forward to getting my Taboo plugged into it.
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Decware: Ultra | Torii MKIII [2] | SE84ZS | Taboo MkIII Sources: Synology 1812+ | Baetis Revolution | PWD DAC MKII | Lumin Network Player | Mytek 192 | Oppo 105 DSP: DEQX Mate | Emotiva Outputs: ERR [6] + Servo Subs | LCD-2 & other cans
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Raduschka
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Re: Isolation Transformers, Power Regenerators, etc.
Reply #27 - 05/08/11 at 00:24:52
 
hmm,
I think I can say I have mixed results with the tripplite, that is why I want to replace its power cable. I find it makes things sound opaque and raspy, compared to a banal monster power conditioner that I also have around the house. The Monster Power makes a huge difference in cleaning the sound and improving the soundstage, probably in a not so subtle way, but I have no point of comparison other than the bare mains, which themselves are not exactly clean here where I live. I have the 250 watt, 2.6 amperes model (from amazon, 99$ I think, quite heavy). I am looking fwd to buying an audiophile grade power conditioner, I have heard a few interesting names here on the forum.
I wish I could answer your question, but I do not understand what 'hard-wired' means in this context. I know how it is used in neuro biology Smiley
I am wondering if it is worth the trouble and if so then which one I should recable, the Tripp or the Monster....
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« Last Edit: 05/08/11 at 00:25:44 by Raduschka »  
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Raduschka
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Re: Isolation Transformers, Power Regenerators, etc.
Reply #28 - 05/08/11 at 00:30:42
 
...the monster power conditioner comes with a thicker power cord, although not as thick as some of mine. I also built a power cord with vh audio cryo cables, flavour 4 or something like that, I cannot remember. I think I will order some more of that relatively inexpensive high quality copper cable and rewire everything, my brain if only I could, and report back to you
roger and out
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Lon
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Re: Isolation Transformers, Power Regenerators, et
Reply #29 - 05/08/11 at 12:57:41
 
I use two Tripplite isolation transformers, one for digital components, one for analog, and they have "captive" (hard-wired: this means they don't use a detachable IEC connector, but are wired directly into the component) cable of sufficient width in my opinion. It's not like they are zipcord.

I really enjoy the sound from the isolation transformer. I used a PS Audio Power Plant for years and did not repair it when it broke down. I find that using these Tripplites, the model that Steve recommends, and using a PS Audio "Duet" power outlet from each, works nearly as well or as well.

Just be sure your Tripplite is not meant for computer use; I've learned that those degrade audio sound.

I'm not sure if they can be made for use with 220v, but I would look into the PS Audio "Duet" . . . they work very well for me.
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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