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New Torii order (Read 5369 times)
mac5u
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Re: New Torii order
Reply #15 - 05/21/11 at 00:34:51
 
A new Torii MK III with 300 hours on it went up for sale on Audiogon.  It has the V-caps.  From what I have read, 300 hours isn't near enough time for the caps to break in.
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Pale Rider
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Re: New Torii order
Reply #16 - 05/21/11 at 01:09:47
 
Interesting. I wrote and asked him some questions. Given the current wait time for a Torii, I don't doubt he will get takers. I am interested though not yet convinced on a Torii as my center amp.
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Decware: Ultra | Torii MKIII [2] | SE84ZS | Taboo MkIII Sources: Synology 1812+ | Baetis Revolution | PWD DAC MKII | Lumin Network Player | Mytek 192 | Oppo 105 DSP: DEQX Mate | Emotiva Outputs: ERR [6] + Servo Subs | LCD-2 & other cans
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mac5u
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Re: New Torii order
Reply #17 - 05/21/11 at 01:31:50
 
I hope he responds to your questions  I had a similar idea to write him but knew I'd probably get all wobbly in my determination to wait until Zen Fest before making any decisions.   Must. Wait. For. Zen. Fest.

Besides, I let my priorities get all messed up this month with my wife's birthday and decided to go for a small remodeleing project on the house.  

::)
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« Last Edit: 05/21/11 at 01:48:26 by mac5u »  
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C.E.
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Re: New Torii order
Reply #18 - 05/21/11 at 02:50:50
 
Hello Everyone,

I've been reading (some of) the forums regularly and decided it was time to comment...

Having been somewhat of a DIY'er for a few years, I stumbled upon the Decware website about two years ago. My mission at the time was to build a tube amp. I had completed a few projects and felt good about my thought process and solder/risk/reward balance.

After looking at Steve's Torii amp design notes, I decided that either:

a) He's read my mind, gone back in time, and already built (and perfected) my dream amp....OR

b) This guy is seriously good and this is God's way of telling me not to mess with high voltages.

I chose b) and was lucky enough to have my girlfriend get me the Torii III (VCaps and Attenuator Upgrade) for my birthday....I know...I'm not worthy.....

So.....my thoughts to everyone:

1. I've used V-Caps in applications before, so I wasn't scared. They take a LONG time to break in.

2. If your source is up to the task, this amplifier (with V-Cap mods) will melt you. The musicality, weight, and "timbre truth" are unbelievable. It throws an awesome soundstage and delivers the music equally well at all volumes. If you really like your source and aren't sure of the upgrades (the amp will still melt you), buy the Torii minus the upgrades. It will be the best money you've ever spent on an amplifier.

3. Read Steve's design notes. He specifies speaker sensitivity ranges and other goodies. It's wonderful stuff and extremely helpful. I don't know of any other designer/business owner/stereo whisperer that walks you through the thought process and shows numbers plus graphs.

4. The Torii with V-Cap mods takes a MINIMUM of 1000 hours to break in. From 30 minutes to about 1200 hours I was continually surprised at how this amplifier changed. The end product was WAAAAYY different than the beginning product. Chunks of my hair were lost in the process. Steve (because he's Steve) was always patient and interested in what I was hearing. Ok...so I may have called him a few times.

5. Believe that final "sound quality" is only 50% equipment. Room treatment is the other half. Spend wisely.

6. The only tubes I changed were the rectifiers. I went with some NOS RCA's and haven't looked back.

Rock on.

Chris
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Mac Mini (Amarra)>DIY (TDA 1541A, Ian FIFO) USB Dac (Tube Output)>Torii III(V-Caps, Attenuator)>Zen Styx>C3-L Monitors/Model H Sub (plate amp)
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Chris K
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Re: New Torii order
Reply #19 - 05/21/11 at 02:53:53
 
It is broken in! I did most of the breaking in for Karl. Sounds fabulous.
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Lon
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Re: New Torii order
Reply #20 - 05/21/11 at 14:06:33
 
Chris,

WELCOME!

I'd be scared to have V-Caps installed and go through that 1,000 hour period. . . . I've finally just settled into listening and enjoying and don't want to imperil that.

But I'm so glad you've gotten a Torii and love it. There's nothing else I've ever encountered like this amp. I sound like a crazy person sometimes on other boards when people are recommending silly things and I mention Decware with enthusiasm.  I can almost see the eyes rolling and fingers rotating near the cranium of the Marantz, Jolida, etc. devotees. But I can't help but recommend this amp to anyone serious about music playback.

Love love love mine and it brings me joy every day.

Glad you posted and feel free to continue!
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DVD-A1UDCI, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Stradivarius, Ultra Linear+Evo ICs, Iso-Pods,Mapleshade:Double Heiix Plus,Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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C.E.
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Re: New Torii order
Reply #21 - 05/21/11 at 16:07:28
 
Lon,

Yes...the V-Caps aren't for the faint of heart...
If I hadn't used them before, I wouldn't have opted to go that way. Now I'm glad I did. I think the V-Caps work best in preamp and amplifier stages like where Steve uses them in the Torii.

I usually don't jump to other sites just because I think Steve's stuff is so good and most of the folks that post on the Decware forums are "of like mind". I don't have the time or inclination to get into technical arguments with people that have nothing better to do. It seems like the people posting here are just sharing experiences and sometimes want to "bounce" ideas or ask a quick question.

The thing (I feel) that people (that aren't familiar with Decware) don't appreciate is Steve's body of work. I hope more people tune in to what he's doing...
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Mac Mini (Amarra)>DIY (TDA 1541A, Ian FIFO) USB Dac (Tube Output)>Torii III(V-Caps, Attenuator)>Zen Styx>C3-L Monitors/Model H Sub (plate amp)
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Lon
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Re: New Torii order
Reply #22 - 05/21/11 at 16:16:10
 
I'm right with you. I don't bother with other audio sites much at all. Will look about when I'm interested in information and that's about all.

My major interaction between others online about audio components outside of this forum is at the Steve Hoffman forum. It's an interesting place. I find that the musical opinions there are pretty myopically focused on old music and stressing out about "mastering" and their equipment choices are pretty mainstream. There are a few Decware users there and a few open to equipment like Decware, but only a few. I mention Decware when appropriate. Here's hoping more will begin to understand.
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DVD-A1UDCI, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Stradivarius, Ultra Linear+Evo ICs, Iso-Pods,Mapleshade:Double Heiix Plus,Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Pale Rider
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Re: New Torii order
Reply #23 - 05/21/11 at 17:40:13
 
Lon, I occasionally visit the Steve Hoffman forum as well. Some fairly knowledgeable folks there, but few seem as open to the Decware experience as I might have expected. I also spend a lot of time at Head-Fi, and a little at some DIY forums, but I find this forum much more relaxing. But my wallet is starting to bite back when I reach for it. After this discussion today, and reading  the other assessments of recent Torii orders, I reached out to Sarah and changed my two pending Torii orders to include VCAPs. I am almost grateful it is not an option on the Ultra; and if it is, I don't want to know. Wink
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Decware: Ultra | Torii MKIII [2] | SE84ZS | Taboo MkIII Sources: Synology 1812+ | Baetis Revolution | PWD DAC MKII | Lumin Network Player | Mytek 192 | Oppo 105 DSP: DEQX Mate | Emotiva Outputs: ERR [6] + Servo Subs | LCD-2 & other cans
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Lon
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Re: New Torii order
Reply #24 - 05/21/11 at 18:16:57
 
Wow. Well, alright, going for the gusto! I know that about the wallet. Mine has a muzzle on it.
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DVD-A1UDCI, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Stradivarius, Ultra Linear+Evo ICs, Iso-Pods,Mapleshade:Double Heiix Plus,Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Re: New Torii order
Reply #25 - 05/21/11 at 20:06:06
 
Several factors played into this:

1. Your and others' sentiments about not wanting to let go of the Torii once in the system, and my gnawing sense that I would want to get the V-Caps in there eventually anyway, so why pay to ship the amp three times, and lose a couple of weeks with it minimum;
2. The positive reviews here and on other products;
3. I checked the V-Caps site here: http://www.v-cap.com/teflon-capacitors.php , and the reality is that even at bulk prices, Steve's upgrade cost seems very reasonable.

I also found and ordered the Esoteric Conditioning & Rejuvenation Disc mentioned by another poster. I know Steve recommends playing music during the 5/5 break-in cycle, but I thought I would give this a try as well.
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Decware: Ultra | Torii MKIII [2] | SE84ZS | Taboo MkIII Sources: Synology 1812+ | Baetis Revolution | PWD DAC MKII | Lumin Network Player | Mytek 192 | Oppo 105 DSP: DEQX Mate | Emotiva Outputs: ERR [6] + Servo Subs | LCD-2 & other cans
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Lon
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Re: New Torii order
Reply #26 - 05/21/11 at 21:12:56
 
Rationalizations fully-formed and in place. Smiley  Seriously, makes sense in your situation.

If I ever feel that I need a change I could always add the V-Caps. . . but right now I don't want to mess with anything. It's that good.
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DVD-A1UDCI, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Stradivarius, Ultra Linear+Evo ICs, Iso-Pods,Mapleshade:Double Heiix Plus,Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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will
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Re: New Torii order
Reply #27 - 05/21/11 at 23:55:37
 
Man, 1000 hours for the V-caps. I don't think I could take it! 200 is enough for me. Couldn't someone come up with a way to burn in caps and then just slip them into the amp!

But speaking of difficulties getting Toriis, here is a tempting post on A-gon.

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?ampstube&1311189930&/Decware-Torii-MK3...

I seem to recall that Steve will transfer the warranty on Decware stuff if they check it out first. The seller says this amp is up to current levels and has only 100 hrs. If so, it must be either new or have been modded with the bass knobs fairly recently (since this is relatively new) and who knows, maybe Steve would just transfer the warranty having had it in hand recently! If interested, it could be worth a call to Steve.


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Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-6, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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mac5u
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Re: New Torii order
Reply #28 - 05/22/11 at 14:23:59
 
That makes two NEW Mk IIIs with 300 hours or less on them up for sale in 10 days.    The one I noticed is also the one Chris K just broke in for his friend Karl (mentioned above and elsewhere) and is the one with the V-Caps.

I also noticed that the owner of the one Will found is also selling a ZDAC.

Wow.  What an opportunity!!  Do I really need to Wait. For Zen. Fest?

Undecided

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« Last Edit: 05/22/11 at 20:48:26 by mac5u »  
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Pale Rider
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Re: New Torii order
Reply #29 - 05/22/11 at 14:25:07
 
Will, you are so right, that is a great deal. That's two in the last few days.
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Decware: Ultra | Torii MKIII [2] | SE84ZS | Taboo MkIII Sources: Synology 1812+ | Baetis Revolution | PWD DAC MKII | Lumin Network Player | Mytek 192 | Oppo 105 DSP: DEQX Mate | Emotiva Outputs: ERR [6] + Servo Subs | LCD-2 & other cans
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