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Some questions on the ZOB build... (Read 13134 times)
Damien
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Some questions on the ZOB build...
02/24/11 at 00:46:53
 
One of the user pics seems to show a home built ZOB with felt lining the inside of the entire resonance chamber!?!  Is this as wrong as I think it is? If no felt is used on the inside of the chamber do you paint it or seal it? Polyurethane?

The spikes... attached 'hard' or with felt? My instinct is they should be 'hard' attached

No mention is made in the plans of how you attach the boards to each other. Glue... screws.. brackets? Screws into the end grain of any processed wood is usually not a good solution.

Probably think of three more ?'s as soon as I post this

Thanks
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« Last Edit: 02/24/11 at 01:09:42 by Damien »  

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Re: Some questions on the ZOB build...
Reply #1 - 02/24/11 at 16:59:23
 
Damien,

Not sure of the picture you write about. If its in the user pictures on the ZOB page, I think that is just a texture Steve used on his renering of the ZOB.

Spikes hard attach with threaded threaded inserts...

Attaching wood together in speakers must be done with joinery. If that isn't possible with the build, with what you have at hand, then screws and glue are a must. To avoid screwing into the edges of MDF you can use pocket screws. the best I have found is the Kreg Jig which should be available from Lowes  Home Improvement. The pocket whole jig takes a bit of practice when you are actually screwing the two pieces of wood together as they tend to slide on one another, the glue acting like a lubricant. There are a few ways to avoid this, but its not that hard to figure out.

Keep the questions coming......

ZYGI
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« Last Edit: 02/24/11 at 17:00:20 by ZYGI »  

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Re: Some questions on the ZOB build...
Reply #2 - 02/25/11 at 22:01:53
 
Before I start this project, there are a few questions that I have concerning the cabinet(box). The first would be about the material used for the box( not the baffle). Does it matter as much as in other speakers what material is used? This enclosure is not a pressurized design, and I wonder if the material used affects the sound as in other speakers. I thought that I might use plywood or MEDEX(a type of mdf product but denser). Also, would the thickness of the material be as important? I'm not suggesting a cardboard box Grin, but want to know the limitations of the materials needed.
 Still, I have not seen an answer to the question about lining the box with felt. I see that stuffing has been mentioned, but how much?

Thx in advance for your time.   Greg
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Re: Some questions on the ZOB build...
Reply #3 - 02/26/11 at 01:49:28
 
Greg,

Medex is as a product name from SierraPine that is just as dense as some of the best MDF out there, the best part its Formaldehyde free and has better moisture resistance than that of normal MDF. I would go with it. We use a very high grade of MDF which is made from pine fibers, which is so far superior to what you could get a Lowes or Home Depot it isn't funny. Medex like what we use has great screw holding strength. WIth that said, I would still use pocket screws for this build.

When we ship, the box has nothing in it. If you listen inside once its built, you will hear nothing but bass with your ear stuck right in the port. You could always (if you make the bottom removable, which I see no other way to attach the baffle) season to taste.

As far as thickness goes, I would stick with the 3/4" as Steve has stated in the plans. If you are using Metric MDF/MEDEX 18mm would be just fine as well.

Hope this helps,
ZYGI
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Re: Some questions on the ZOB build...
Reply #4 - 02/27/11 at 22:50:41
 
I agree with ZYGI on the MEDEX. MEDEX is an acronym for exterior mdf as it is water proof (resistant actually) and not as prone to the expansion the lower grades are.
Living in Hawaii, I can use neither and used marine ply with 13 laminations for my HDT build. Worked well.
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Re: Some questions on the ZOB build...
Reply #5 - 02/28/11 at 17:27:51
 
Seems medex or even cheap MDF is not an option when your miles from nowhere. No one around here carries it and the nearest city big enough that it might have it is too far away even if I did have a way to haul it. The nearest Lowes or Home Depot is 40 miles. Though I do have a truck it's one of those "I'm afraid to get more than a few miles from home" kinda trucks. My little car could't do the job.

Sigh... Looks like I go with something less than optimal. So I need to coat the interior with a hard smooth finish. Acrylic enamel? Seems to me it would be important not to disrupt the interior of the box with bolt head/ brackets and such. How important is this?

I am thinking hard drying glue with screws and exterior brackets. The entire ext. of the cabinet will be painted a flat black once completed so the brackets will not be seen. That way only the front baffle needs a 'finish'

Thanks for all the advice
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Re: Some questions on the ZOB build...
Reply #6 - 02/28/11 at 19:29:10
 
Nowhere is city proper for me. The nearest Home Depot is 98 miles away. And MEDEX, well they just gave me a strange look when I proposed to order some. They did have 9 ply available, but I don't know how that ranks with the other options. I wonder if HDF is good enough.....
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Damien
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Re: Some questions on the ZOB build...
Reply #7 - 03/10/11 at 16:45:09
 
Well I have a rough build on the ZOB's already. Lots of work left to do but they at least hold their own shape now.
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Re: Some questions on the ZOB build...
Reply #8 - 03/10/11 at 22:26:42
 
Your ahead of me. I am just cutting out the baffles today. I am using 1 3/4" cherry. The rest of the build is still forming in my mind. Will probably use a 9 ply  plywood if I can get the quality that is needed. I figure that material can be added to dampen the enclosure if it is too woody or boxy sounding. Wink
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Damien
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Re: Some questions on the ZOB build...
Reply #9 - 03/12/11 at 00:11:16
 
Just curious and you need not answer if you don't want to... but what did that Cherry cost?

I built from the back forward and have not yet looked into a front baffle. I was hoping for Flame Maple or Quilted Maple.... have a look

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/business-classifieds/34005-great-savings-all-tom...

but I bet that's gonna be huge $$
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Re: Some questions on the ZOB build...
Reply #10 - 03/12/11 at 02:47:50
 
There really is nothing like the beauty of wood. Thanks for sharing the photos. It makes my mouth water.....As I recall, I spent about $80-90 per piece for the lumber. Unfortunately, the shipping was nearly as much! I just got done planing the boards tonight. Cherry is so much more attractive to me after a few years of darkening. I will try to take a picture of them tomm, but I always fail to be able to get pics onto this website, cuz it says that the files are too large. Then when I reduce them, it doesn't like something else about it. I don't remember what anymore. But I could e'mail them to you or something....
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Damien
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Re: Some questions on the ZOB build...
Reply #11 - 03/14/11 at 18:53:23
 
Sure send me some pics  at

damien***at***macgurusdotcom (avoiding the spambots, remove the *'s and fix the dotcom and the at/@)

Here's an interesting tidbit

The hole in the resonance chamber is 3 1/4 inches. Apparently that's not an easily found size for a hole saw. I have 2 lumber companies and 2 hardware stores and a walmart in my smallish town. NONE of them had one. Called Harbor Freight in Indianapolis (50 miles) and they didn't have one. Everyone has 3" and then goes to 3 1/2 inches. Even Amazon, in all it's glory, only carried one 3 1/4" hole saw (other vendors on amazon had only one or two) Here's the link if you have trouble finding one.

http://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-49-56-0183-4-Inch-Hardened-Hole/dp/B0017WS1EW/re...

Unfortunately I suck at cutting round holes with a jig saw or Reciprocating saw. I have both those tools but I know my limitations  ;)
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Re: Some questions on the ZOB build...
Reply #12 - 03/14/11 at 21:20:09
 
Good to know  'D'.  I wouldn't bet on it, but I either have a 3 1/4 hole saw, or a circle jig for my router that will accomidate.  Now ya have me wondering.....    Btw, I checked out the prices for 17 ply and the 'perfect plank' wood, and even though I think that the prices are fair, they are out of my range.  The ply was $110, and the other was $152, and that still probably wasn't enough board feet...dang! I will have to take a trip to Montana to find anything better than what is available here in Wyo.
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Re: Some questions on the ZOB build...
Reply #13 - 03/15/11 at 02:32:02
 
Damian,

Here is something that you can use. Should be availible at you local Ace Hardware store.. Doesn't every town have an Ace?

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1292919&kw=circle+cutter&...

ZYGI
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Re: Some questions on the ZOB build...
Reply #14 - 03/15/11 at 13:06:00
 
Thanks  and that is something I could have used. I do have an Ace Hardware and did go there.. when I asked for a hole saw and they didn't have the one I needed they didn't suggest this which makes me wonder if they had it. Very small Ace hardware... kind of an afterthought added on to (and completely supported by) the Farm Bureau CO-OP.

Anyway I have already ordered and received the one from Amazon, I cut my holes yesterday.

Now I just need a new Table Saw.... Oh Yeah did I mention I burnt up my table saw on this project? LOL. Yes I did but there is a story about the saw.  It belonged to my dad who kept it in his basement shop. When he passed away I got all the tools but before that there was a flood and the table saw and some other tools got submerged. The Table saw was never the same since. It still worked (very loudly) for light work but 2 sheets of 3/4 board isn't very light. Also it's no great loss because even when it was new (about 30 years ago) it was a very cheap one.  

About the spikes

Are the dimensions on the spikes important. I am assuming they aren't since no mention is made about their size in the ZOB plans. Tall enough to keep the box off the carpet so it can resonate? Pointy so the spikes themselves dampen as little as possible?

Dad's shop was mostly metal working tools and the lathe works just fine. I have a piece of stainless steel stock about 2" or so diameter that I plan to turn these out of
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Damien
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Re: Some questions on the ZOB build...
Reply #15 - 03/15/11 at 13:17:17
 
Hey 4krow

Did you order that Cherry from an online store or at a local lumber yard?
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Damien
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Re: Some questions on the ZOB build...
Reply #16 - 03/15/11 at 21:03:28
 
Well I spent the last several hours turning some spikes on my lathe. All went well and I now have 6 stainless steel spikes ready to go. Either glue or drill and tap the spike with a bolt through the bottom. I have some VERY good glue that I think will do the job. I plan to make the bottom removable until long after they are done, only adding the glue to it after I am happy with the final product. With no dimensions to go with I used what I believe the Navy refers to as 'Mark I Eyeball'   Yeah I chose an angle by eye, didn't look right so I went a bit tighter. Turns out a 55˚ taper makes a good looking spike. I didn't make them sharp enough to warrant a visit from Homeland security, but if you set one on your foot you are NOT gonna be happy. Left a 1/8" flat on the bottom


I did make a design change I want to mention. I dislike the idea of the screws/glue/joinery around the bottom holding all the weight of the cabinet. So I modified the measurements so I could make the entire cabinet set on the bottom piece. This will give a visible joint but I am ok with that. I was very careful to preserve the exact dimensions of the resonance chamber and associated baffles etc.

I guess this weekend it's a trip to Indianapolis to the lumber company that carries exotics. I also have to shop for a table saw..
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Re: Some questions on the ZOB build...
Reply #17 - 03/20/11 at 21:57:23
 
Damien,

 I don't know what your budget is, but I would suggest a Dwalt table saw. I don't remember the model number of mine, but it was around $1,000. I rewired it for 220v, and it has a cutting width of 30". I believe the table size is 27x40, and I have used it for about 4 years now. It's not like the cabinet saw I used to own, but it takes up a lot less space and is less expensive as well. Don't forget to buy a saw with a really good fence, or your just wasting time/money.  BTW, I found a 3" hole saw at the lumber yard today...I was shocked, heh heh
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Damien
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Re: Some questions on the ZOB build...
Reply #18 - 03/24/11 at 20:26:16
 
Sadly... I don't make the kind of $ to spend 1000$ on an occasional use item. However I did find a decent 10" Craftsman, used that had broken plastic around the base. I fixed that with some L angle iron and some strap. MUCH more saw than I could have afforded and it does indeed have a decent fence. I think it cuts up to 24" wide. 40$ Also picked up a Craftsman 16" Scroll Saw in mint condition 40$.

I have my eye on a planer and a jointer. Just trying to decide if I truly plan to get into more woodworking or if this is a passing phase/midlife crisis Wink If I get them that means no iPad for me... decisions decisions..

To further complicate matters my shop is also my garage and it's pretty packed already so smallish and portable are a plus where possible. I  have several non portable items I have to design my floor plan around...
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Re: Some questions on the ZOB build...
Reply #19 - 03/24/11 at 23:57:41
 
Good idea with the used saw. If it can be fixed, then that is a good deal. I have the same problem with my shop, think  1930's one-holer. But whoever owned it first was a wood worker, since there is enough room one side for a built in wooden vise and work bench. Probably pretty fancy for the day. Still, I have to be very careful with tool placement and the like, so I feel your pain.
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Re: Some questions on the ZOB build...
Reply #20 - 03/31/11 at 18:35:06
 
Just an update; I chose 11 ply baltic birch for the side panels and some other parts. I am using solid rosewood for the top of the box and the back, and I am using solid cherry for the baffle. I will be using a combination of glues , brackets, and pocket holes to assemble this beast. Surely, it will weigh more than I first expected, but I like that idea anyway. Now, I have to decide if I am going to stain the side pieces to match the baffle or the rosewood....
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Damien
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Re: Some questions on the ZOB build...
Reply #21 - 03/31/11 at 20:21:07
 
On the back and box I went with all black (or I am going to anyway... they are as yet unpainted) like the Decware built boxes. On the front I have Birds Eye Maple veneer. It has 2 coats of linseed oil followed by amber shellac. It has the exact color I was looking for but I need some practice at shellacking  ;)  I am going to trim it (edge dressing) in something very dark brown.  I have taken pics  but they are not yet online

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Re: Some questions on the ZOB build...
Reply #22 - 05/11/11 at 22:42:52
 
Damien,
  Hows the project coming along? Looks like we have plenty of time to complete them before more FRX drivers will be available. My project is still in the rough cutting stages, but I'm not worried since the weather is finally good enough to let me work in the shop. Sooner or later, I will get far enough along to take some meaningful pictures.... Tongue
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Re: Some questions on the ZOB build...
Reply #23 - 05/12/11 at 00:27:46
 
Have a look here

http://www.macmeisters.com/~damien/built/page1/page1.html

Also there is a component rack I built and a piano I plan to restore all with pics

Yeah those FRX's seem like they might take a while. Mr Deckert said there were 6 orders to fill before he gets to the waiting list. 77 on the list as of a few weeks ago. Trouble is I don't know where I am on the list.  :(  He said he gets them in lots of 10. I think I was on the list pretty early (I hope)

I ended up with a great deal on some solid walnut for the edge dressing. 40 feet of 1x2 for 30$ from a local guy. I plan to keep him in mind for future projects.
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Re: Some questions on the ZOB build...
Reply #24 - 05/12/11 at 15:21:27
 
Man,  you have been busy! I will swallow my guilt and get back to work. What glue are you using? I plan on using 100% silicone caulk and brackets, but mine will be on the inside.  Thats some really cool maple that you have for the baffles. How thick is the veneer for the walnut sides? Or did you say you were going to paint the cabinet black? I'll try to take some fotos of the baffles tonight.....later
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Re: Some questions on the ZOB build...
Reply #25 - 05/13/11 at 00:42:22
 
The maple veneer is very thin 1/8 or less.

The walnut is not veneer. 100% solid tree.. err... wood.

I am painting the cabinet black. Though some veneer back there might look good. The glue is carpenters glue to attach the walnut framing and to glue the two 3/4 pieces of baffle together. For the veneer I used what the lumber place recommended .... contact cement. When they say that contact cement bonds instantly THEY MEAN IT!.  The cabinet is put together using screws but before the final finish it will be sealed with silicone rubber.

I have just attached the spikes to the bottom and the final piece of walnut is ready at the wood working shop for me to pick up tomorrow. Yeah I had to go back for more... sigh, got excited that my process worked very well and cut too many short pieces from the same board. This left me with only enough board for 3 long pieces.. oh well live and learn  :-[
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Re: Some questions on the ZOB build...
Reply #26 - 10/17/11 at 18:49:11
 
'D',  Something I just made this weekend may be of interest to you. On my ZOB cabinets, the cones were mounted close to the edges, but there was still some wobble due to the width of the cabinet. So far, I have built outriggers for the front to stabilize the cabinet from rocking(about 3" sticking out on each side), and it works really well. Also I think that the profile of the cones need to be slimmer so that they can stick through carpets easier and get to the floor. That may be the next trick.
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Re: Some questions on the ZOB build...
Reply #27 - 10/18/11 at 01:04:10
 
I agree there should have been 4 spikes but I understand also that the more contact with the floor the less resonance you will get. It's a trade off.

You have pics of your outriggers yet?
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Re: Some questions on the ZOB build...
Reply #28 - 10/18/11 at 02:39:14
 
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Re: Some questions on the ZOB build...
Reply #29 - 10/18/11 at 11:15:46
 
Do those replace the original spikes or are they in addition to them?
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Re: Some questions on the ZOB build...
Reply #30 - 10/18/11 at 13:35:35
 
'D'   they replace the original spikes. In fact, the outriggers use the same t-nuts that the spikes used. I will probably install one outrigger for the rear as well. I might even go as far as to weld the rear outrigger to the front one, forming T shape that extends to the rear, making a one piece outrigger for the front and rear of the speaker.
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Re: Some questions on the ZOB build...
Reply #31 - 10/19/11 at 00:26:23
 
I like the stability idea and it looks like you did a great job. I wonder though if putting a steel 'T' crossbar deal will cut down the ability of the chamber to resonate..
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Re: Some questions on the ZOB build...
Reply #32 - 10/19/11 at 04:37:53
 
I put three spikes and got the job done. No wobble. Rather than doing mods, maybe a "sharper spike" that goes through the carpet  could be a solution.
With four spikes, you always have the problem of getting them to stabilize....  due to vibrations etc , you will find that you will need to tighten them occasionally. With  three, you don't have that problem.

Stick to the original plans....... I have done it without any problems.

shreekant Smiley
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Re: Some questions on the ZOB build...
Reply #33 - 10/19/11 at 04:48:32
 
I agree about the sharper spikes. I will probably make 3 of them for this little project. The last speaker stands I owned had sharp spikes too, and they work better in carpet.
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Re: GRILLS
Reply #34 - 12/26/11 at 19:08:17
 
Ok, it's me again. This is about protecting the FRX2 from stupid people poking around/standing too close to/ leaning on/raising my blood pressure. Fortunately, I don't have a lot company, but the few that do come over raise my blood pressure by simply being way too close to the fragile drivers in my speakers. I have considered needles/razor blades/vicious dogs to try and keep their curiosity at a safer distance. Maybe grills that can be taken off when listening would ease my unease.  Any ideas?
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Decware 34I.3 integrated amp/Forte' 3 bass amp/Velodyne SMS-1 bass mngmnt system/Decware ZOB speakers/BESL subs/Emotiva ERC3 CD player/BPT 3.0 power cond. PS Audio P500
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proud_indian
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I love YaBB 1G -
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Re: Some questions on the ZOB build...
Reply #35 - 12/27/11 at 04:10:56
 
How about dangling a couple of dead rats  :o Roll Eyes Grin

shreekant Smiley
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84C, ZBox, Ex mod, Zkit4&5.1, Vcap, CCE, Lowthers, CD200, Power iso and other stuff
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4krow
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IMAGINE WHIRLLED
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Re: Some questions on the ZOB build...
Reply #36 - 12/27/11 at 12:26:03
 
hey....I thought rats were sacred....besides they totally mess up the sound stage.
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Decware 34I.3 integrated amp/Forte' 3 bass amp/Velodyne SMS-1 bass mngmnt system/Decware ZOB speakers/BESL subs/Emotiva ERC3 CD player/BPT 3.0 power cond. PS Audio P500
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Damien
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Re: Some questions on the ZOB build...
Reply #37 - 01/31/12 at 18:50:38
 
How about a sign... you break it you buy it... and post a copy of your receipt.
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Taboo, CSP2+, ZOB's, FRX2's
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hifitubes
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Re: Some questions on the ZOB build...
Reply #38 - 02/09/12 at 22:22:55
 
Is there any alternative to the FRX2? Sounds like it will be some time (years?) before I get to the top of the list.

Is it worth the wait?
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Damien
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Re: Some questions on the ZOB build...
Reply #39 - 02/12/12 at 03:58:24
 
You can get the DFR8's which I am using now in my ZOB's. They sound fabulous. But as stated on the ZOB page with some kinds of music the will need a bit of bass help in the form of a small sub. The FRX2's are supposed to have that problem fixed.

A little bird hinted to me that the first batch of 10 pair of FRX2's might ship around the first of March. Also that I might very well be in the top 10 on the list. Nothing definite
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