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3D Sound (Read 826 times)
seank
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3D Sound
11/17/10 at 21:45:40
 
I found the following website about 3D sound interesting.

http://www.princeton.edu/3D3A/

also

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-20022412-47.html?tag=nl.e702

Do you think this would replace 7.1 surround sound?






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4krow
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Re: 3D Sound
Reply #1 - 11/20/10 at 17:54:12
 
This is an observation that has existed by former engineers, specifically, Bob Carver. The technics used for this illusion are also used in the "sonic holographic" devices designed by Mr. Carver. The process is so effective, that despite the mid-fi circuitry of the equipment, I use it still today(specifically the C-9 unit). Not all recordings have the appropriate amount of information for this unit to utilize, but when they do, the effects are quite amazing and believable.
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Decware 34I.3 integrated amp/Forte' 3 bass amp/Velodyne SMS-1 bass mngmnt system/Decware ZOB speakers/BESL subs/Emotiva ERC3 CD player/BPT 3.0 power cond. PS Audio P500
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RFZ_Quest
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Re: 3D Sound
Reply #2 - 11/21/10 at 23:02:27
 
Synthetic versus natural acoustics


Interesting thread with a degree of merit in the right direction.  It has been awhile since I have delved into the realm of anything audio related, but seeing this point has brought up some very worthwhile memories of past experiments within this type of presentation.

As this degree of 3 dimensional interaction has always been paramount in my search for the perfect listening experience...it has remained allusive to me without the direction of special processors to carry out its direction in time and space.  Without it....the dimension of the presentation becomes way to restricted and bland by comparison.

 On the other hand, I take things from a purist approach with a basic function of minimalist design as it should be with the least amount of component interaction as possible to prevent coloration of the signals path.  Years ago, (late 80's) I had a complete array of Carver's top of the line components that were released prior to his separation from his own company that he built, as a result of corporate takeover.  I had the latest "T" mod designs of that wonderful mid-fi line....very respectable quality in that price range and reasonably beyond.

I must note that another critical component which regulated the degree of room interaction within a reasonable manner, was the control by a DBX 10/20 RTA with a pink noise generator to program all pertinent listening points in the best configuration as possible from all points tested within the room. I used that equipment with satisfaction until introduced to the Decware product line.  (with the exception of the RTA unit, as that was sold prior to this)  I gained my first taste of tube sound with the very first piece owned from Steve's designs.

That unit was the simple yet very effective tube buffer line stage which I bypassed the C9t processor ( solid state of course )...to drive the solid state mono-bridged amps with from a digital source.  What I was missing from doing that was its most inviting feature that gave me the presentation I expected and desired...that being full holographic presentation and absolute separation of detail effect in space, which seemed as though the room was no longer a factor to get in the way of the exotic, yet natural sound spread. This was NOT the pathetic simulation of 'echo' which ridiculous cheap basic forms of reverberation spatializers ruined the sound with..those are absolute pure rubbish acting as mere distortion control more than anything.

With this being the quandary for which I knew some form of compromise in the signal path was going to be a necessary evil...the search pushed forward to find that allusive presentation within the purist form of simplicity as possible.  I knew that I was going in the right direction with the example of tube buffering within solid state...so it stood to reason that by revamping the entire system with a purist tube approach just may present me with the separation and imaging that I was accustomed to...but with far better sound quality...the perfect solution...right?  To my disappointment by the regard of the full spatial effect, I once again found myself closer, but not anything near my projected goal.

Yes, with the new addition of the 'then' flagship SV83DC mono blocks being controlled by the basic tube line amp, and the introduction of the newly released original RL-1's (later converted to near RL2 specs), I certainly was much closer to the sound I was expecting...certainly a significant gain in audio purity.  I found my satisfaction in middle ground with this new set-up...yet still at the realization that this was not the same as what I desired from basic equipment improvement alone.

That is when I became motivated to research and develop new means which to somehow extend this great sound quality much closer to the wide expansion of spatial effects, into a pure holographic submersive nature, without deviating from the purist perspective of the signal path.

The introduction to extreme complication has reared its ugly head now...as the only thing that will allow my objective to be made is that of synthetic means by electronic regard...or, take the 'purist' approach by means of external environmental engineering to cure the problem where it exists...not just limiting simply by working to counter its detrimental aspects upon the perceived listening experience through that solely of the sound source.

Out comes the basics of acoustical understanding to control this issue. The journey begins incorporating the laws of physics as it applies to sound-wave manipulation and its desired control...finally the most reasonable approach to finding a solution has presented itself within my understanding...diffusion and absorption principles are in tall order for which to maintain balance, for which my goal can be realized to the point where input equals output of positive affect.  The electronic RTA was the electronic means to do this, I however from a purist approach, desire resolve from a natural untainted method...this being the only viable solution to that alternative.

My new objective...is this possible?...perhaps new ground can be conquered to find the best possible situation ever experienced by my strict expectations.  What became the obvious intrusive nature to what always presented the major distraction for which to tarnish this goal, was clearly in direct proportion to room acoustics and the influence it portrays across the spectrum of balance.

My reasoning was simple...restriction to binaural sound was in no way a barrier in real time to our natural ability to focus on time and space within natural sound dispersion upon our ear-brain mechanism...so why does this occur within the reproduction of sound in a confined area?  Well...the answer is not so simple as one might try to compile in one simple solution...as time and effort would confirm.  To achieve anything near to that simulation of natural 'live' involvement, this was going to require a major degree of proper design tactics in which to somehow reconfigure the element's combined forces, for which kept me from  achieving the desired outcome.  

One must really have their principles intact with great focus to warrant this degree of effort in which no stone must remain unturned on the path to glorious reward. If you want something badly enough...the will to pursue its possession will be the dominant force to make it happen...at least much closer to it than before.  With each improvement in the progression of experimentation, these various implementations of acoustic control soon reveal themselves as the key to unlocking the answer.

Key point...the source of sound merely acts as the generation of sustained soundwave introduction from a generic point source. The perceived outcome once registered within the ear-brain system of the listener, becomes purely subjective to the room's influence upon that point source in so many extreme ways.  The system is pretty much limited to this in basic form...as it would be expected.

This brings forth the confirmation that the system is only a part of the complex matrix for which sound can be dispersed in a believable manner of realism.  The extent of that contribution is in direct proportion to its intended objective.

This is no easy task with so many implied variables, as trying to make sense of it all can be an extreme challenge within itself...there is no set standard for any given environment when focusing upon the exact proportions desired for any particular room restriction...it is a matter of trial and error to center in on the best approach applicable to a particular achievement.

I must note that another key element for which to enhance this achievement lies strongly within the importance of speaker design, and critical placement within the matrix...once that has become part of the balance...any disruption of its influence within the room boundaries becomes highly subjective to the perceived response in so many ways of form and function.  Much of this resolve centers strongly within the way the speaker qualities interact as a point source to communicate within its restrictive boundaries....more on this to be touched on later in my observation of the whole.
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4krow
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Re: 3D Sound
Reply #3 - 11/22/10 at 00:34:34
 
It seems that many of us have followed a similar path of intent, "How can I make this live?". Efforts are preyed upon by the marketing miracles to better sound. We are thrown off by hoping that their wire/conditioner/crystaline process or whatever will produce the effects promised.  We believe, because they believe, and round we go again. The Carver product (holographic process), however, came as close as anything that I have ever tried for a realistic illusion of 'being there'. Things were not automatic, i.e. there were speaker placement requirements, listening position requirements, and the recordings themselves had to have the proper information in order the unit to do it's magic, and most of them did. I judge the success of this unit in my system by the fact that after 40+ yrs. in this hobby, it is the only remaining unit that has never been replaced. To be clear, although I have been 'in audio' for over 40+ yrs., I did not discover this unit for many yrs. after which  it had been created. The only thing that I would wish for is a higher quality unit capable of the same effects.
Dsp units did not impress me in the same way. Even the Polk speakers that intended to do the same job acoustically, did not measure up in my opinion.
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Decware 34I.3 integrated amp/Forte' 3 bass amp/Velodyne SMS-1 bass mngmnt system/Decware ZOB speakers/BESL subs/Emotiva ERC3 CD player/BPT 3.0 power cond. PS Audio P500
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Hajj
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Re: 3D Sound
Reply #4 - 11/22/10 at 09:24:05
 
seank,
Check out Ambiophonics.org
This has been around for quite some time now, and IIRC Prof. Edgar Choueiri (of 3D3A Labs) was a contributor to the ambiophonics project.
There are numerous downloadable softwares (mostly VST plugins) you can install that work with your audio player, some are free (Ambio.one) other are moderately priced (Electro-Voice's ambio plugin is 25$ now)
I personally have installed ambio.one (using Foobar2000 as audio player), and was less than impressed with , the results.
Proper setup is tough to say the least, and once you get it right, the music gets tiring pretty quickly, at least that's my experience with it.
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