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APPROPRIATE TUBES FOR  ZEN SE84c+ (Read 4732 times)
don pettit
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APPROPRIATE TUBES FOR  ZEN SE84c+
11/10/10 at 02:12:32
 
HELLO ALL,  have had my zen and csp 2 for over a year now and the only tube rolling i have done is the rectifiers.  bendix 6106 are my favorites.  have been wondering about el84 outputs.  bought amperex and was very disappointed.  maybe buried under a quilt would describe the result.  hooked those tubes up with my dynaco st 35.  all good.  within limits of that amp.  have lots of russian 6p15p ev.  they sound as well as you know they do.  question:  what quality tubes sound well?  is there a known problem with amperex tubes re our little zens?  better choices?  hope someone out there  has had an experience in this matter that guides me to better out put tubes for my little zen which i would die for.  don
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Rivieraranch
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Re: APPROPRIATE TUBES FOR  ZEN SE84c+
Reply #1 - 11/10/10 at 11:39:06
 
Your Zen will never sound as good as with the 6P15p-EV's. It was designed for them.
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DECWARE CSP2+, TABOO MK III; SE84CKC; HR1; TRAPEZIUM DESKTOP SPEAKERS; TECHNICS SL1200MK5 turntable; Ah! Njoe Tjoeb CD player; MARANTZ 2226B, 2216B receivers; SENNHEISER HD-580 headphones
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don pettit
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Posts: 78
Re: APPROPRIATE TUBES FOR  ZEN SE84c+
Reply #2 - 11/10/10 at 17:03:48
 
hi again,  i guess your last post would mean you have not had good results trying different output tubes.  the reason i wanted to try better nos tubes was because in place of the 6p15p ev we now use i had tried some old sovtek el84s and liked the result.  reasoning that high quality el84s should sound even better i bought the amperex and was very disappointed.  so, again, i ask has anyone had decent results with trying other nos output tubes in our little zens?  i have obtained a lifetime supply of the military  6p15p but i am always up for a new direction if someone suggests it.  thank you,  don pettit,  long beach, wa
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drumsgreg
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Re: APPROPRIATE TUBES FOR  ZEN SE84c+
Reply #3 - 11/10/10 at 21:38:05
 
I use the genalex el84 in my taboo, love the sound of this tube, i like itbetter than the jj el84 that came with the amp, I have not tried the CCE mod on the amp yet with the sv 83 but I will soon.
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Rivieraranch
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Re: APPROPRIATE TUBES FOR  ZEN SE84c+
Reply #4 - 11/10/10 at 23:50:55
 
The Zen was designed for the 6P15P-EV (EL83; SV83) tube. Therefore, using an EL84 in there is counter intuitive.

The TABOO was designed for the EL84 and using the SV83 is less than optimal. I liked the TABOO with the 6P15P-EV with the CEE mod but liked it more with the 6P14P-EV, which is a souped up EL84
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DECWARE CSP2+, TABOO MK III; SE84CKC; HR1; TRAPEZIUM DESKTOP SPEAKERS; TECHNICS SL1200MK5 turntable; Ah! Njoe Tjoeb CD player; MARANTZ 2226B, 2216B receivers; SENNHEISER HD-580 headphones
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don pettit
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Re: APPROPRIATE TUBES FOR  ZEN SE84c+
Reply #5 - 11/11/10 at 00:24:54
 
hi ranch,  you refer to the taboo which i wish i had bought in the first place but i have what i have and that is the zen.  my question is: does what is appropriate for the taboo also be appropriate for my little zen? no point in obtaining the right stuff for a taboo when i do not have one, right?  so,  i just bought a pair of amperex 6dj8.  will get another pair when circumstances (money) permit.  so,  thanks for the responses so far but i just do not have a taboo;  wish i did.  thanks, don
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don pettit
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Posts: 78
Re: APPROPRIATE TUBES FOR  ZEN SE84c+
Reply #6 - 11/11/10 at 00:29:51
 
it's me again.  i did have the cce mod done about 9 months ago.  slight improvement.  not nearly as much as when i started using the 6106 rectifiers.  all good, don
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Rivieraranch
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Re: APPROPRIATE TUBES FOR  ZEN SE84c+
Reply #7 - 11/11/10 at 02:49:46
 
I don't have experience with the Zen so I am really just parroting what I have read and learned about these. The 6DJ8 is not my preferred tube in the CSP2+. They have less bass. I have experienced this myself.

"6N1P's have the warmest tone, 6922's have the best dynamics, 6DJ8's have the most air and micro-detail with a touch less bass."  Manual

I think a good 6922 such as an Electro Harmonix would suit you well in this input position.
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DECWARE CSP2+, TABOO MK III; SE84CKC; HR1; TRAPEZIUM DESKTOP SPEAKERS; TECHNICS SL1200MK5 turntable; Ah! Njoe Tjoeb CD player; MARANTZ 2226B, 2216B receivers; SENNHEISER HD-580 headphones
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don pettit
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Posts: 78
Re: APPROPRIATE TUBES FOR  ZEN SE84c+
Reply #8 - 11/11/10 at 03:02:23
 
hi again ranch,  my intent is to try all options.  i started with 6dj8 for no particular reason.  will be trying 6922 in due time.  have gotten chinese 274b.  and 5v4.  and 6 6106.  and 6 gz32.  the gz34 i have seen are priced way high for my skinny little budget at present.  but time will improve all things, right?  have cryo'd my wall socket fitting,  power cords and my russian input tubes.  looking to do more in the future.  if enough improvement takes place i may be able to purchase a taboo in the future if the republicans do not cut my social security too much.  lots of luck, right?  don pettit
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Rivieraranch
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Re: APPROPRIATE TUBES FOR  ZEN SE84c+
Reply #9 - 11/12/10 at 00:15:12
 
I believe that you have your wires backward. The Republicans want everybody to prosper. The Democrats want to make everyone poor and miserable.

If you sell of your SE84C+ and all those exotic tubes you would be able to buy a TABOO right away. Why wait.
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DECWARE CSP2+, TABOO MK III; SE84CKC; HR1; TRAPEZIUM DESKTOP SPEAKERS; TECHNICS SL1200MK5 turntable; Ah! Njoe Tjoeb CD player; MARANTZ 2226B, 2216B receivers; SENNHEISER HD-580 headphones
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don pettit
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Re: APPROPRIATE TUBES FOR  ZEN SE84c+
Reply #10 - 11/12/10 at 02:16:44
 
thank you,  RUSH!!
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Rivieraranch
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Re: APPROPRIATE TUBES FOR  ZEN SE84c+
Reply #11 - 11/12/10 at 02:54:43
 
Tube rush.
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DECWARE CSP2+, TABOO MK III; SE84CKC; HR1; TRAPEZIUM DESKTOP SPEAKERS; TECHNICS SL1200MK5 turntable; Ah! Njoe Tjoeb CD player; MARANTZ 2226B, 2216B receivers; SENNHEISER HD-580 headphones
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don pettit
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Posts: 78
Re: APPROPRIATE TUBES FOR  ZEN SE84c+
Reply #12 - 11/12/10 at 03:11:00
 
exotic tube rush, RUSH!!!
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Terry2
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Re: APPROPRIATE TUBES FOR  ZEN SE84c+
Reply #13 - 01/06/11 at 08:53:07
 

Any of the EL84 variants will work in the SE84 series of amplifiers, I have found that this amp is a very common pseudo triode circuit for many pentodes, and have adapted it to use many 9 pin sub-minature pentodes.



Here I am using the 6CL6 pentode in the Select, it doesn't have as much power, but this tube is a bit more open and relaxed compared to the 6P15P-EV.  The cymbals in the treble range are more pronounced and clean, with such detail decay can be discerned in all its glory.  After prototyping like this, if I like it I put the adapting wiring in a wood casing and then I have another tube for the Select.  Like food it is nice to have different flavors.
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don pettit
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Re: APPROPRIATE TUBES FOR  ZEN SE84c+
Reply #14 - 01/06/11 at 20:43:08
 
hi terry,  it is refreshing to hear that el 84s work will in my little zen,  particularly in light of steve's mentioning that they work well in in that amp.  but that little guy is now in a small room in the rear of the house into which i retreat somewhat rarely as it is not a really good venue.  i obtained second hand an se 34.1 which has barged into the front room and taken over.  came with el34 ruby tubes; very nice.  but spoke with ron at cryoset and ordered tung son el34s, cryo'd of course as i believe in the tecnique absolutely  probably will arrive tomorrow.  hopefully will have them "burned in" by monday.  but terry, must inform you i have not the skills to do the adaptation you have done.  admire your skills!  thanks,  don pettit, long beach, wa.
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