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Torii Mk2 Fuse (Read 11968 times)
nsj
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Torii Mk2 Fuse
01/09/10 at 17:34:29
 
Hello all,

Before I pose my question, I must say that I am truly enjoying my Torii Mk2 amp. It is without a doubt, the sweetest-sounding amp I have ever heard!

Now to my question: Last night, while listening to Les McCann & Eddie Harris Live at Montreux, the Torii suddenly went black - all lights out. As I suspected, the fuse had blown. I replaced the fuse with the spare and the amp fired right back up again. What is the likely cause of the blown fuse? I have the amp plugged into a surge protector, so a power surge cannot be the problem, unless I am missing something. Has anyone had this experience?

Thanks,

Neil
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Lon
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #1 - 01/10/10 at 00:21:10
 
It was Eddie Harris.  He was always pulling crap like that.

:)

Don't know. . . it probably isn't something to worry about. . . . Just have another spare fuse.
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nsj
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #2 - 01/10/10 at 00:41:10
 
Hey Lon,

I hope that you are having a good weekend, waiting and dreaming about your new Torii Mk3 and ERR's...

Thanks for your reply. Do you use a surge protector with your equipment?

Neil
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Lon
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #3 - 01/10/10 at 01:53:42
 
Yes.  I used to use a PS Audio Power Plant, the first one they made, but it gave out on me about three years ago or so.

Now I have two isolation transformers and two PS Audio "Duet" power strips with surge protection, one each for analog and digital components.

I think my Torii Mark III and ERRs are too far out for me to start dreaming about. . . would be frustrating.  I'll wait before I start dreaming of them. Weekend is going okay. . . Had lunch with my lovely girlfriend and a friend of ours, but then she went to the office (she works too hard all the time, she has an important job) and so I've been playing my Stratocasters and my basses and calling her up to annoy her into leaving (she finally just left and is on the way over) and right now I'm watching Allen Toussant on Austic City Limits.  Sounds really good coming through the system.
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Rivieraranch
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #4 - 01/10/10 at 16:54:07
 
You might want to check all the sockets and all that. I had a unit that did that.
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nsj
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #5 - 01/10/10 at 17:06:36
 
Hi RR,

That's a good suggestion. What is strange is that when the Torii tripped its fuse, the CD player was not effected, it was still powered up and playing. So, whatever happened, it was the Torii alone that was impacted...

I guess that fuses do fail once in a while. Perhaps the fuse was original, and this IS a used amp.

Neil
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nsj
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #6 - 01/10/10 at 17:08:10
 
Lon,

Out of curiosity, did you order the new Torii Mk3 with the modern base, or the ornate base?
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Lon
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #7 - 01/10/10 at 17:36:52
 
Neil, I ordered it with the hardwood walnut base.
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nsj
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #8 - 01/10/10 at 17:44:32
 
Beautiful! That is what I would order as well. I do like the cool Decware cut out that glows red on the Mk2; I don't think that the Mk3 has that...
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DPC
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #9 - 01/10/10 at 18:15:19
 
The Mark III does not have the cool cutout.
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nsj
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #10 - 01/10/10 at 19:53:19
 
DPC,

That's too bad, it's a really nice detail. I also really like the way that the tubes reflect off of the black chassis of my Mk2, something that the white chassis probably doesn't provide as well. I really do like the new Walnut base that Steve/Bob are building. Now a Walnut base with a black or clear-finished, burnished chassis, and the Decware cut out THAT would be kickass!
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #11 - 01/11/10 at 11:46:00
 
The "Decware" cutout had to be eliminated as that space is now used for additional tubes.  I had Bob Z. build me a custom walnut base to match my other components.  Looks very professional!

dennis
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #12 - 01/11/10 at 15:51:34
 
Probably because Bob is an, er, Professional!! Grin
I'll bet it looks (and sounds) great!
Best, Don
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #13 - 01/12/10 at 03:40:30
 
Can't believe it, but after 6 months of heavy listening, my Torri MK II apparently blew a fuse this evening.  I just went in to power up for an evening of listening, and nothing.  Everything else works fine and it all goes into a Furman Power Condtioner/Surge Protector.

My question - how do I get to the fuse?  I thought that I just had to snap the little cover off, but it won't budge.  I must be missing something.

bill
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #14 - 01/12/10 at 04:03:53
 
Never mind my previous post, I just figured out how to get the fuse out.  I replaced it with the spare in the unit, and then plugged it in.  Figuring that I was now good to go, I turned the unilt on.  The right side powered up as normal, but it took the left side OA3 tube a little longer to light up than usual.  When it did, if flickered briefly (had never done this before), then the rectifier tube lit up brightly (looked like it fried), then the unit went dead again.  I know I blew the new fuse, but I am curious about the tubes.  I don't have a spare rectifier tube on hand, and only have a used OA3 that I replaced when I bought a new one for my ZP3.  Does the OA3 flickering indicate that it probably fried the rectifier tube?  Any comments will be appreciated.  I will have to order new tubes tomorrow, and locate new fuses I hope locally.  Looks like I am watching TV for a week or so.

bill
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Lon
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #15 - 01/12/10 at 12:12:00
 
It does seem as if that rectifier tube has gone bad and is taking the fuse out.  Fuses should be easy to find at Radio Shack.

Steve would be your best bet for a definitie answer; you may wish to call him.  

Sorry to read this; hope the wait is not too long.
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #16 - 01/12/10 at 12:35:26
 
My head amp had the rectifier socket loose; that took down 2 rectifiers and 2 fuses. Then Steve replaced the rectifier socket and I did not have that trouble again.
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #17 - 01/12/10 at 20:47:33
 
Thanks for your replies.  I found the fuses at a Radio Shack in the adjoining city (40 miles), and put one in.  I also stripped the ZP3 phono stage of its recitifier tube and and OA3 and put them in the Torrii (my Torrii shipped with 5Y3GT tubes).  With trepitation, I powered up.  Fortunately, everything seems to work alright.  I am out my phono stage until new tubes arrive, but at least I can use the CD player in the interim.

I also thought that I got lucky when I found a television repair shop in a small community some 70 miles from here.  When I called him, he told me that he could check all my tubes but that his buddy has had his tester for months now.  He is going to try to get later this week, and then I can test all the tubes from the left channel.  After reading an old post from Rivieraranch on JJ6922 tubes frying and taking some other tubes with it, I am concerned if my recent change to these same tubes in the input stage may have caused the problem.  Until I have the tubes tested, I replaced with the tubes that shipped with the Torrii.

Thanks again.

bill
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nsj
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #18 - 01/12/10 at 21:24:35
 
OK, this is weird, because I just had a similar experience to Bill's. I just received my Decware interconnects moments ago. I plugged them into the amp and cd player and no sound at all?

I re-plugged the old interconnects in and powered up. Just like Bill, my left side 5Y3GT rectifier tube lit up like a Christmas tree and then settled down. I now have sound through the old interconnects?

So, what is going on here? Could the Decware IC's be defective?

Anyone?
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nsj
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #19 - 01/12/10 at 22:08:03
 
Oooops,

OK, I figured out the problem with the IC's (wrong hole) Embarrassed

The tube is still a mystery...
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #20 - 01/12/10 at 22:21:07
 
nsj - don't you just hate it when something happens, and you don't know what caused it?  Drives me crazy!  Glad everything on your end is up and running again.  I wish that I knew what caused my tubes to go.  If it was just premature failure on one tube, I can live with that.  But if there is another underlying problem, I would also like to know what it is.

bill
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nsj
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #21 - 01/12/10 at 22:31:36
 
Bill,

I know what you mean. In my case, the amp will run, but every time I power it up now I get the fireworks out of the left side, which scares me a bit.

I have shut it down and ordered a new rectifier tube, so I guess that we are both watching TV or reading for a while...

I wonder if the tube was starting to go bad and that's what caused my initial blown fuse. Then again, I probably have less than 30 hours on these tubes and I'm sure that Decware checked them before shipping.

It's a mystery.

Neil
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #22 - 01/20/10 at 21:32:18
 
Well, I am up and running again.  Got my replacement tubes yesterday and got them into the ZP3.  Got my tubes that I was concerned with tested today, and got them installed back into the Torrii MKII.  Everything seems to be working just fine.  The root of all my problems MUST have been a catastropic failure of eithe the 5Y3GT or the OA3, I wish that I knew for sure.  Anyway, it is good to be spinning vinyl again.

bill
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #23 - 01/20/10 at 21:39:01
 
Bill,

I'm glad to hear that you are back up. I'm pretty sure that my bad rectifier tube (also a 5Y3GT) is what caused my initial problem with the blown fuse. The tube was arching like crazy. I am still waiting to hear back from Sarah regarding a replacement tube. I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere that the tubes are guaranteed for 90 days?
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #24 - 01/21/10 at 23:13:29
 
Neil,

While you are waiting to hear about whether or not Decware will provide a replacement tube, I would recommend purchasing another just the same.  That way, you will have a spare around once you get the replacement.  I was just starting to do that (started with the longer lived tubes - go figure) when my system went down.  When I ordered the replacement tubes, I only got one rectifier tube as a spare (I will use that for the ZP3 phono stage).  I am trying to decide what to get as spares for the Torri.  I am thinking of getting a pair of 5U4 rectifiers, but am having trouble on deciding on which brand.  Am looking at Electro-Harmonix or JJ tubes.

bill
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Lon
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #25 - 01/22/10 at 01:38:42
 
I recommend looking for RCA 5U4s.  I have a pair in my Mark II and they are wonderful.  I've had really good luck with RCA rectifiers, both sonically and with regards to stability and reliability.  And usually they are not too expensive.  I tend to go for the "non coke bottle" variety.
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #26 - 01/22/10 at 05:15:55
 
Thanks for your recommendation Lon.  Although I had read where they were great tubes, I really didn't think that I wanted to go NOS for various reasons, one of which was the cost.  Then earlier this evening I saw a reference to a tube dealer that I had been unaware of while surfing the WWW.  When I checked the site, I discovered that they had very reasonable prices and had quite a selection of RCA tubes listed.  I will probably talk to him next week and may order a couple of his tubes.

Will let you know what I decide to do.

bill
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #27 - 01/22/10 at 17:25:21
 
Well, I ordered a set of RCA 5U4-G's this morning.  I paid what I thought a very reasonable price (especially given the prices I see from other vendors online).  I originally had planned on getting the strait sided tubes, but opted for the coke bottle design at the last moment.  IF I like these tubes, I will order another set for spares (but will get the straight side instead).  Will let you know when I get them in and get some time on them.

bill
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Lon
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #28 - 01/22/10 at 18:58:05
 
Great Bill!  I predict you'll like them.
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #29 - 01/22/10 at 23:47:19
 
Bill/Lon,

I took your advice and ordered a new 5Y3GT. Then I heard from Sarah today and Decware is out of them, so they are sending me a 5U4G instead. I assume that the tubes must match from side to side, so I guess that I will order one more 5U4G and then I will have a spare set or a rolling set.

2 questions for you guys: Where do you order fuses from? What type of output tubes are you using? My Torii Mk2 came with KT88's. I have not heard anything else.

Neil
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #30 - 01/23/10 at 01:17:58
 
Glad your tubes are on the way.  

I havn't ordered tubes too often befroe, but when I did, I ordered either from the TubeDepot, or from thetubestore.  Both have seemed pretty honest to me and straight forward to me.  Both carry current production tubes as well as NOS.  I have a few other sources bookmarked, but primarily for informational purposes only.  The outlet that I just located for NOS tubes is Vintage Tube Services.  If you run a search on any of the sources that I mentioned, I am sure that you will locate them.

I am running Sventlana EL34 tubes.  They are the only power tubes that I have used.  My Rogue Cronus integrated amp (the one that preceded the torri) came with these tubes, as did the Torrii.  I have been very happy with them although I did have a failure of one in the Cronus after only a hundred hours or so, and I had an issue with one tube on the Torri when I first got it.  I have been trying to decide what to get as a spare quad for the Torrii, and my indecesion is the primary reason that I started with the input tubes.  I will be sticking with EL34 tubes whatever brand  I decide on however.

I just reread your post and I see you asked about fuses and not tubes (sorry).  I got mine from Radio Shack.  I am in rural montana and the store that I got my replacements for only had two packs of 5amp 125volt fuses, so your local store may or maynot have them.  Look at them carefully, as the store clerk was going to sell me the 250volt fuses instead.

Did you get your Torri used, or straight from Decware.  I didn't think that Decware provided KT88's for their amps, although I do know that you can use them.  I would like to hear a quad installed in mine, but I am not going to go through the expense of trying them.

bill
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #31 - 01/23/10 at 01:51:57
 
Neil, if your amp has the "Christmas Comes Early Mod" you really want to use EL34s (that doesn't work with KT88s, you won't get the benefit) .  The SED (formerly Svetlana, I think that is what Bill has) EL34s (called "Winged C") are excellent.  I also have really enjoyed the "Mullard Reissue" EL34 tubes.  I was skeptical about these because someone whose ears I trust was very doubtful they would be good, but I found a pair cheaply to use in my SE34 Monoblocks and discovered they are quite nice, and use those in my Integrated in my bedroom system.

I haven't gotten fuses anywhere yet but from Decware and Radio Shack.
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« Last Edit: 01/23/10 at 01:52:57 by Lon »  

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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #32 - 01/23/10 at 02:37:59
 
Bill,

I ordered from TubeDepot as well. I was just curious. I will check Radio Shack for the fuses.

My Torii was/is used, but, it was sent from Decware with all of the tubes as part of the deal.

Lon,

My amp does have the CCE mod, as that was ALSO part of the asking price. What is strange, then, is that the amp came with KT88's instead of EL34's. My guess is that the KT88's were what the previous owner had left over and they were just thrown into the deal...THAT means that there is improved sound out there for my amp by using EL34's?!!!!!

I can't believe that it could sound any better than it does already  :D
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #33 - 01/23/10 at 03:28:30
 
Lon,

I actually have the Svetlana reissues, they are not the "SED Winged C".  I think that they are made at the same russian plant.

The SED Winged C's are actually one of the two brands that I have been considering as spare.  The other is the new Tung-Sol EL34's.  I did see in older posts that you tried the Tung-Sols, but finally decided on the Winged C's.  I havn't made up my mind yet as to what I am getting.

bill
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #34 - 01/23/10 at 03:59:12
 
The Winged Cs are not really the same tube as the Svetlana. . . I've used both and think the Winged Cs are the better tube. The Tung Sols, it's funny, because I've used vintage Tung Sols and the reissues, and they're just a bit dull and thick sounding for me. But worth trying in your system.

Neil, you do have an option for a different sound. It's been a long time since I've heard an amp with kT88s but I think the EL34s will make a different amp out of the Torii.  I'd definitely try it since you have the "mod."
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #35 - 01/23/10 at 04:05:51
 
Lon - your earlier post to Neil on my Torri probably having the Winged C's got me thinking.  I mentioned that I had some problems with the power tubes when I first got the Torri.  Well, I thought that they were the same that I had in my Rogue Cronus, so I just swapped them out and then forgot it.  I just went and checked the tubes in the Cronus, and yes, they were in fact Winged C's.  I am going to take them to the guy in the neighboring city that I found that has a tube tester and have them looked at.  They only have about 10 hours on them.  If they are in fact good, I will place them back into the Torri and give them a try.  Part of my initial problem with the tubes had more to do with one of the OA3 tubes, so the Winged C's might actually be good.  Your post may have saved me some money, as well as giving me back a better tube.

bill
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #36 - 01/23/10 at 13:12:18
 
:)
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #37 - 01/23/10 at 16:51:18
 
Lon,

I know what I will be getting for my birthday in April...

Bill,

For future reference, I found another comparable tube supplier in San Diego: boiaudioworks.com. If you are in Montana, the shipping might be more quick from these guys. Prices are similar to TubeDepot.
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #38 - 01/23/10 at 20:26:20
 
nsj - thanks for the info.  BioAudioWorks is one of the sites that I have bookmarked for informational purposes only.  When I initially came across their site a month or so ago, I was looking for info on the new Tung-Sol EL34 tubes.  They had good things to say about them, and that they would be doing a review in the near future.  They ALSO state that they answer email questions 24/7.  Well, I emailed them asking how the review was going.  I have yet to hear back from them.  Because of that, they will NEVER get any buisness from me.

On another note, I reinstalled the SED Winged C's this morning.  I will pass along my initial impressions a little later.

bill
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #39 - 01/24/10 at 22:11:33
 
I have listened to the SED tubes for about 6 hours since yesterday when I reinstalled them.  Even though the SED's have limited hours on them as compared to the 300-400 hours on the Sventlana's, I will be leaving the SED's in place.  

My ears don't pick up much of a difference in soundstaging or imaging.  I had thought that the Sventlanas had a good tonal balance, but when compared to the SED's, it would appear that they were a little lean in the bass regions, but the difference is pretty subtle.

The major difference is in bass articulation.  I sometimes have troubles identifing bass instrumetation with some music, but with the SED's, I can now hear the bass as seperate and individual instruments.

Looks like I won't have to look for a spare set of power tubes now unless I get around to selling the Rogue Cronus, then I will have to get a quad to place back into it.

bill
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #40 - 01/24/10 at 22:56:03
 
Glad that you found improvement!

I like those tubes, great stuff.
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #41 - 01/25/10 at 01:18:50
 
Bill/Lon,

Given 2 such endorsements, the Winged C's are on my list. I can't wait to hear the EL34's with the CCE mod. I am moving down on the speaker list as well. With any luck I will have the ERR's in a few weeks!
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #42 - 02/02/10 at 23:08:56
 
Well, as I indicated a couple of weeks back, I ordered and today, received, a pair of RCA 5U4-G rectifier tubes to replace the stock 5Y3 tubes in my Torri MKII.  I have just over two hours of listening to the tubes so far.  Much to my surprise, I noted a marked improvement already.  First off, the new tubes allow the OA3 tubes to power up within a second or two, not the 15 seconds as with the 5Y3 tubes (this really dosn't conern me much, however).  Second, the noise level has dropped off signifcantly.  Sometime since I first received the Torri, I picked up a hum.  It is apparent in both channels when up close to the speakers, esp the left channel.  The hum was barely audiible from my listening position, so it didn't bother me too  much.  With the new tubes, the right channel is now almost hum free, while there is still a barely audible hum from the left channel.  Neither channel hum is discernable from my listening position.  Third, the music presentation is now much "cleaner".  This could be a result of lower hum, but I think that it is much more than that.  The music now has much more "punch" than before.  Hard to tell for certain, but I believe that I also have better defined imaging from before.

Complety happy with the new tubes!

bill
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #43 - 02/02/10 at 23:26:22
 
Smiley Smiley Smiley
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #44 - 02/11/10 at 01:08:07
 
nsj - havn't heard from you in awhile.  Just curious if you have solved your blown fuse situation yet, and if you have installed any new tubes yet.

bill
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #45 - 04/05/10 at 22:13:12
 
Hi Bill,

I have been busy withe the new pup and work. The blown fuse situation is cured, it was probably the result of the blown rectifier tube. I have not blown any fuses since.

The Winged "C" EL34's are on my B-day list. I have been moving forward in stages: first the MkII amp, then cables, then the ERR's. Next will be the EL34's and eventually a ZCDi.

I hope that you are well and you have a very impressive listening room!

Best,

Neil
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Re: Torii Mk2 Fuse
Reply #46 - 04/06/10 at 01:06:18
 
Glad to hear that you havn't had further incidents with the fuse.

Also saw on antoher topic that you received and are really happy with your new speakers.  I would like to hear the ERR's, but when I purchased my HDT's, I was more interested in trying out single full range drivers.  I am extremely happy with the HDT's, but I undoubtly would get better soundstageing with the ERR's.

Yea, love the listening room.  Spend a couple of hours in there almost every nite.  The lack of comfort from my recliner is the only thing keeping me from being in there even more.  Will be in there listening to two new albums tonight (Michael Brecker and Mark Knopfler).  Can't wait to here them, especially Brecker's album.

Hope the pup is doing great.

bill
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