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Tube rolling the CSP2 (Read 8266 times)
setamp
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Re: Tube rolling the CSP2
Reply #15 - 06/27/12 at 12:15:51
 
I found a trio of 60's vintage 6N1P's that I hope arrive for the weekend.  It will be interesting to see how they affect the sound.

I am assuming a 6H30 cannot be used in the front position as it is not a direct replacement for a 6N1P, 6DJ8, 6922.  Has anyone confirmed this?
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Lord Soth
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Re: Tube rolling the CSP2
Reply #16 - 06/27/12 at 13:19:45
 
According to 2 famous and reliable Tube sellers

"The 6H30 tube type is generally not compatible with 6922 and ECC88 tube types."

http://thetubestore.com/6h30types.html

And also over here,

"This tube is not a replacement for 6922 or any other tube type."

http://www.upscaleaudio.com/6h30pi-gold-pin/
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setamp
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Re: Tube rolling the CSP2
Reply #17 - 06/27/12 at 17:20:54
 
I asked because I used it in my Dodd tube buffer which allows for its use as well as a 6DJ8 or 6922.
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Lord Soth
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Re: Tube rolling the CSP2
Reply #18 - 07/03/12 at 16:13:38
 
Hi setamp,

In general, for tube amps, you can use an alternative tube if the alternative tube has a lower filament current than the original stock tube as was specified in the original tube amp design.

For example, if you take the case of the CSP2+ which was originally designed for the 6N1P tubes,  the filament current of the 6N1P is greater than the alternative European and US ECC88 family of tubes, this is why ECC88, E88CC and 7308, etc can be used instead of the 6N1P.

For the Dodd tube amp, it was originally designed for the 6H30 tube. The 6H30 tube has a larger filament current than the 6N1P tube.

You can compare the specs using the following links.

6N1P : Filament Current of (MIN) 0.55 to 0.65 (MAX) A
http://www.russiantubes.com/prop.php?t=12&p=194

versus

6H30P : Filament Current of (MIN) 0.725 to 0.9 A (MAX)
http://www.russiantubes.com/prop.php?t=12&p=233

In such cases, it is therefore generally not advisable to use the 6H30P tube in a CSP2+.

Unless you don't mind taking the risk, it is best to check with Steve before you pop in that 6H30 tube.

BTW, this is the technical reasoning behind what Kevin Deal was trying to say at his website.
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/pages/6922-Tube-Types.html

"Do not use a 6N1P in a 6922 position. But you can almost always use a 6922 in a 6N1P position in products like Peachtree Audio and others.

Do not use a 6H30. The 6H30 is a completely different tube. You also cannot use a 6922 in a 6H30 position except for a couple rare preamps, check with the manufacturer."  
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setamp
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Re: Tube rolling the CSP2
Reply #19 - 07/04/12 at 01:41:29
 
Lots of good info.  Thank you for taking the time and effort to post this.
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Lord Soth
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Re: Tube rolling the CSP2
Reply #20 - 07/23/12 at 17:52:00
 
For those who are lusting after the Lorenz but can't get hold of them,
a suitable and worthy replacement would be the normal Amperex (*USA) 6922 which is cheap and readily available.

I finally carried out an audio shootout between the Pinched Waist 6922 Amperex (* USA) versus my stash of Lorenz tubes.

The PW 6922 has the treble euphonic extension of the Lorenz CCa (2 Mica) and the Midrange euphony of the Lorenz E88CC (2 Mica).
The bottom end of the PW 6922 has punch but loses out slightly to the Lorenz PCC88 (2 Mica).

Another way of looking at the PW 6922 is that it is similar to a Lorenz PCC88 (3 Mica) or Lorenz 6922 (3 Mica) in being balanced sonically.
However, the PW 6922 still does sound slightly better at both the Treble and the Midrange.
 
The normal Amperex 6922s themselves are also almost as good (IMHO at least 90%) as pinched waist Amperex 6922s.
The usual drill about "D" getters and grey shields being better also apply as usual. Wink
 
Epilogue or Prologue as the case may be. Joe was right!
IMHO, the Amperex PW 6922s are the King of the hill! Smiley
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Lon
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Re: Tube rolling the CSP2
Reply #21 - 08/19/12 at 21:41:34
 
No lusting after Lorenz for me. My CSP2+ is arriving Wednesday and I'm going to use three supercryo'd 6N1P tubes from cryoset.com -- these have been my favorite tubes for the Torii and my CSP2. Looking forward to breaking in the preamp, its flexibility and any differences between this and the CSP2. Now my dream system really only lacks one thing: a ZP3. Time to start saving, thinning the herd, etc. for that beauty.
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sberger
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Re: Tube rolling the CSP2
Reply #22 - 08/20/12 at 01:14:18
 
Lon great news! Looking forward to your review(s) out of the box and as it breaks in and makes friends with your Torii. I'm really enjoying my Artemis LA-1 per but I would like to try to get my CSP2 back in the chain.

Those N1P's sound great. I should try some although I presently have Amperex's 6922's, 6DJ8's, 7DJ8's, Edwisian 6922's, Mullard 6922's and some I'm sure I'm forgetting. Wouldn't mind finding some of those Lorenz's either but they're almost impossible to source.
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Lon
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Re: Tube rolling the CSP2
Reply #23 - 08/20/12 at 02:33:41
 
I'll definitely be posting impressions, you know me.

I've tried all kinds of tubes in the front end of the Torii and in all holes of the CSP2 and I just keep going back to the 6N1P. Just has the "forgiving" little bit that I need and the best overall tonal qualities for my collection and room.
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Lord Soth
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Re: Tube rolling the CSP2
Reply #24 - 05/03/13 at 19:17:00
 
I finally got down to rolling my NOS Matched Pair of Siemens E288CC (grey shields) tubes.

These tubes are considered to be a dark horse due to much bashing by Joe's tube lore. However they have earned much praise elsewhere too.

So the question to any tube roller would be, what do these sound like in the CSP2+???

When used as a preamp, the Siemens E288CC works great in the 2x output section.
Without any prolonged burn-in, the tubes are a sonic equivalent ( in my setup) to the Siemens 7308.
Since tubes will improve with use, I'd expect them to surpass the E188CC eventually.

According to the E288CC data sheet, the E288CC is supposed to have higher GM vs the "normal" 6DJ8/E88CC/E188CC.
When used as a preamp, what is interesting to me is that my volume knob choices were maintained at exactly the same level as before.
In the CSP2+, with the self - biasing design, I have found that I have gotten the same volume as the 6DJ8/E88CC/E188CC tubes.

When used as a headphone amp, however, I have to reduce the volume knob by 1 notch.

Some of my sonic impressions of the E288CC are :-

1. Bigger Sound stage vs 7308 Siemens
Live recordings make you feel like you are really there.

2. Crystal clear vocals like the Siemens CCA tubes - these are factory selected UBER tubes

3. Natural tonality - pianos sound like they are in the room

4. Transparency
I normally do not use my CSP2+ with my SE tube power amp because I can hear a slight sonic veil.
What I'd surprising here is that for once I can't detect any sonic veil! Smiley
For once I can have my cake and eat it coz the CSP2+ still adds a touch more of organic tube warmth and 3D holographic imaging to my set-up.

5. Treble
Hi frequencies are well rendered.
Cymbals have a nice sheen and sparkle.
Strings have "emotional" appeal with great tonal decay, ranks among the best tubes I have heard.

6. Bass
Above average.
Tight and not inadequate in any way.

My source : OPPO 95.
My other tubes are 1x Brimar 5R4GY RECTIFIER and 1x Amperex Pinched Waist 6922 *USA for the input section.
My headphones: Beyer T1.
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« Last Edit: 05/04/13 at 04:25:37 by Lord Soth »  
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Francesco
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Re: Tube rolling the CSP2
Reply #25 - 09/29/13 at 00:58:11
 
hello peoples
Let introducing myself
My name is Francesco from Montreal Canada, a couples of weks ago i bought used a CSP 2+ with the russian tubes and the 5U4 Chinese
after testing with my tube tester the 6N1P-EB was no too good, so I decide to start a tube roling, i try same Tunsgram 6922 to noisy, russian 6922 no good, amperex 6dj8 bof!!
Then i put 3 philips E188CC from holland 1965 and a 5U4 GB Philips Miniwat also from Holland, and ........WOW....WOW
My monoblock 845 have a new life, strong and tight bass very musical
I am very Happy, thanks Mr Deckert
Francesco
Sorry about my poor English
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Lon
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Re: Tube rolling the CSP2
Reply #26 - 09/29/13 at 01:29:54
 
Francesco,

Welcome! Glad you enjoying the Decware sound.

And your English is very good!
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will
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Re: Tube rolling the CSP2
Reply #27 - 09/29/13 at 06:33:44
 
Francesco,

Thanks for your input. Right now I am running some early 60s Amperex E188CC in my Torii and I really like them! I have not tried them in the CSP3 yet. In the CSP3 I am using Ultron 6BQ7As drivers, an Ediswan (Mullard) 6DJ8 input, and a 50s GE/RCA 5U4G-ST. Also WOW! I too am getting a very strong, tight bass, and really there is brilliant clarity and dynamics throughout...all delivered very musically.
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« Last Edit: 09/29/13 at 06:34:37 by will »  

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Francesco
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Re: Tube rolling the CSP2
Reply #28 - 09/29/13 at 12:54:52
 
Bonjour Will & Lon
The preamp sound well also with A Sylvania 5931 JAN.
The 5U4 GB is branded Philips Miniwat but is a GE USA, I forgot to mention that, here is a picture
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« Last Edit: 09/29/13 at 12:57:52 by Francesco »  

miniwatt.jpg
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Rivieraranch
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Re: Tube rolling the CSP2
Reply #29 - 09/29/13 at 13:19:53
 
Etched glass is definitely GE. Glad you found your right tubes.
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