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What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ? (Read 13169 times)
davewhit58
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What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
01/05/10 at 18:08:27
 
I have an EH 6992 gold pins would that be better ? and what should I fit to better that ?

thanks in advance
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Rivieraranch
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #1 - 01/06/10 at 01:35:24
 
Try the EH and see how it sounds. The gold pin version is not different from the steel pin version though. It is a good, quiet tube, however. I would not trust a JJ; I have been burned too many times with these. Don't get hung up on exotic 6922 variants; if you do you will have more invested in tubes than in the gear. If the EH gold pin doesn't glitter, then try a JAN Sylvania 6922 or 7308.
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davewhit58
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #2 - 01/06/10 at 10:08:18
 
thanks for that have picked up a mullard   Smiley
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BLFST
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #3 - 01/06/10 at 16:56:17
 
Rivieraranch - wished I had seen your post earlier.  I have been trying to decide on replacement tubes (not so much for the sake of rolling, but I want a spare set of tubes around in event of failure and thought that I would try something other than what came stock with the Torrii MKII).  Anyway, I decided to give JJ a try and ordreed a matched set.  Hope I don't have the problems you have had in the past with them.  Also, I noted on a seperate forum that you had been inquiring in the 6N23P awhile back.  I too had seen these listed and was curious about them.  Did you ever order a set, and if so, what did you think?

thanks.

bill
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Rivieraranch
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #4 - 01/07/10 at 03:32:25
 
I hope you ordered from somebody such as Jim McShane, who will test the tubes competently before he sends them. Oh well. Try them out. I am sure JJ makes more good than bad; just their failure rate seems high. The power tubes that JJ makes are better than their small signal tubes. I have a JJ 6922 pair and an EH 6922 in my office CSP2 unit. These tubes are fine and have lasted around a year so far.

The 6N23P-EV if I am not mistaken is the same as the Electro Harmonix 6922. These are regarded as very quiet. That is why they are recommended for that input position. The EH 6922 I have in my home CSP2 is microphonic but that does not seem to be a problem.

I never bought any 6N23P-EV tubes because the prices seemed ridiculous. I am over the 6922 bug. I have had a Mullard 6DJ8, Seimens PCC88 but I sold all of them. The 6DJ8 is simply not an optimum sound and something was just not right with the PCC88.
 
Going forward I am sticking with the JJ E88CC (6922) the EH 6922; maybe some JAN Sylvanias 6922's and 7308's I have accumulated; but nothing made after the mid-1970's.  The Phillips "last gasp" 6922 tube production was just not very good. I have personally encountered a lot of dead and dying ones.
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Lacee
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #5 - 05/28/11 at 17:13:27
 
I recently inserted an older Seimans gold pin 6922,in the hope of lessening a bit of hum.

The hum seems a bit weker, but so is the bass impact.

But that's not too big an issue, because in the bargain I've gained less background hash and more clarity in the mids and treble.
A bit of glaze that was there that I never really felt was too bad, is now MIA.

I've got another old Sovtek 6922 from an old Audible Illusions pre amp frm back in the early 90's that I may try next.

I've also got 3 more of Seimans gold pins.

But I think before I do anymore tube rolling, I'll just rediscover my amp for awhile.
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Lon
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #6 - 05/28/11 at 17:51:28
 
Good ieda.  I find it really takes 100 hours or more to truly evaluate all the paramters of a tube/get a new one to break in.
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bladesmith
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #7 - 06/07/11 at 10:21:16
 
Sorry to chime in here. I use the Siemens e88cc "A" frame in my se34I. This is a very good tube that is similar if not better than a telefunken. It just depends on what you like. I also recently bought a pair of mid 80's Philips ECG Jan 6922 tubes for spares which very reasonable (20). These are NOS and boxed, the sound is very good given the fact they are not even run in yet. I would say the mid 80's Philips ECG is a good alternative to a modern tube. But this is only my opinion and as I said the tube has not done the 100 hours yet.

Cheers,
Richard.
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« Last Edit: 06/07/11 at 10:22:45 by bladesmith »  
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Pale Rider
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #8 - 07/07/11 at 18:17:47
 
Quote:
I never bought any 6N23P-EV tubes because the prices seemed ridiculous. I am over the 6922 bug. I have had a Mullard 6DJ8, Seimens PCC88 but I sold all of them. The 6DJ8 is simply not an optimum sound and something was just not right with the PCC88.

Not sure what brands or vintages you might have been referencing RR, but I did notice that the 6N23P-EV can be had fairly reasonably. Cryoset has them at $24, which could add up fast and seems to be on the high end, but I noticed on fleabay that they can be as low as $8. This lot is about $14 apiece. Wink
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Rivieraranch
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #9 - 07/07/11 at 22:40:50
 
Funny you should mention that. I have been thinking of ordering some 6N15P-EV tubes from the Siberian Market people who list on ebay. They also sell the 6N23P-EV as well. The prices are not ridiculous for these. They are on par with new Electro Harmonix 6922, which is for all intents and purposes the same tube.
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Lon
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #10 - 07/07/11 at 23:57:44
 
I bought those Reflektor 6N23P-EV tubes from cryoset, and gave them a long chance in the Torii, and while stunning on some material, ultimately it was too crisp and tart for me. I like a more forgiving tube for use with all my material, and that one wasn't it.

I put them into my second Torii, the Mk II in my bedroom system. There less than ideal placement makes the system a bit too warm, and so far they're working well to ameliorate that.

I guess I'm not recommending 6N23P-EV unless you really like a lot of air and a far from a romantic sound (as Gopher uses the term, a use I agree with and a sound I like).
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« Last Edit: 07/07/11 at 23:58:07 by Lon »  

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Lacee
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #11 - 07/24/11 at 01:00:30
 
I took the Seimans 6922 out and put the DecWare supplied tube back in.
I think the siemans may have been long in the tooth,some day I'll get a tube tester.

Anyway I have regained the added weight in the bass.
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Lon
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #12 - 07/24/11 at 01:23:13
 
Full circle!

I've just got to have a 6N1P in my Torii, it's the tube type I keep coming back to. If I were using analog sources I think a 6922 might work, but with digital sources I find the 6N1P has the warmth and just a tad of smoothness most of my cds need.
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dank
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #13 - 07/24/11 at 23:45:35
 
Lon

I agree, I'm sold on the 6n1p. I've stopped trying other types, the 6n1p is the one I've settled in on.



Dan
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Pale Rider
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #14 - 07/25/11 at 16:22:28
 
Well, on these enthusiastic recommendations, I will keep my stock tubes close at hand.
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ski bum
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #15 - 08/11/11 at 02:24:50
 
Another thumbs up for the 6n1p.  I also have a few 6922's of different flavors, but for my room/speakers/ears, the 6n1p is the best match.  Very easy on the ears, full bodied, natural sounding.
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Rivieraranch
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #16 - 08/11/11 at 03:52:52
 
You could try a 6BQ7. They are electrically similar to the 6N1P and are dirt cheap.
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Lon
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #17 - 09/08/11 at 16:09:25
 
RR, thanks for the mention of this tube type. I ordered a pair of RCAs and have been listening to them in both of my Toriis. Very dynamic tube, perhaps a bit too analytical overall for my taste with some accompanying tubes. Still, a good avenue to explore with different brands, etc. Chris, you may wish to try this tube type out if you have not. . . .
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C.E.
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #18 - 09/08/11 at 16:46:38
 
Thanks for the "nudge"...

I've been reading, but haven't had any time to post. Hope all is well with everybody. I tried that tube and came to the conclusion (as well) that it was a bit too detailed for my current system. VERY good option for the price though. The 6N1P still easily stands out for me as the best sound.

I've tweaked my digital front end a bit and while I originally felt the 0D3 was the best option, I've since settled on the 0C3 and have tried different varieties. My favorite is a 1940's pair of RCA 0C3's. The others I've tried are CBS-Hytron 1950's, Raytheon 1960's ?, Westinghouse 1960's, Sylvania's. All of those tubes affect the sound differently. I suppose I'd call it the "forwardness".

My last endeavor will be to try the 0C3A tube. This is the straight sided RCA 0C3 and should be very close to the coke bottle. The main difference is the voltage sag listed in the specs (I think). The voltage sag may be a good thing though....

Finally, I think it was Pale that mentioned the 1960's RCA rectifiers. I agree that for a warm, full bass they are without peer. I'm stocking up as well.

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Lon
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #19 - 09/08/11 at 16:57:25
 
Should have known you've covered that base!

I've got a Coke bottle RCA OC3 in now, trying it out with this 6BQ7 pair. Sounds pretty good.

My tube-rolling habit is beginning to get out of control! No, just kidding.
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Lon
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #20 - 09/10/11 at 22:36:04
 
Well, the 6N1P is back in place. The 6BQ7 was an interesting listen, but ultimately it was less open and deep sounding and I missed that sound the 6N1P brings.
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Rivieraranch
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #21 - 01/11/12 at 00:49:15
 
I put a 1967 JAN Sylvania 6BQ7A into my SE84C+ and found that it bested a black plate CBS 6BZ7 that I had in there. It was some more livelier and more detailed. I don't know if this is because the 6BQ7A has higher trans-conductance.

I had first used a tired, old Seimens gold pin ECC88 in that position. While it sounded all right, its tiredness might have compromised the gain.

The 1976 "black plate" 6N1P-EV I tried briefly in there felt warm and dynamic at the same time. It was not laid back by any means.

So far I like the JAN Sylvania 6BQ7A and the 6N1P-EV for the SE84C+.
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jameskk
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #22 - 08/08/12 at 11:57:12
 
I want to ad a tube that I want to find more of but cant. a few months ago I picked up 2 Sylvania 6dj8"s that were made in the USSR. Are they  6n1p's, 23's ,,,,,,,dont know , i know they sound great , after going through the realm of 6dj8's . any comments ????????
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Rivieraranch
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #23 - 08/08/12 at 12:02:44
 
To my knowledge Sylvania did not make anything over in the USSR. You may be describing the 6N23P or 6922 equivalent.
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jameskk
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #24 - 08/17/12 at 11:14:48
 
thanks Rivieraranch, even the Sylvania box says made in USSR. When I bought them on ebay the guy said that they were rare. i ordered 2 n23's ,so i'll look them over with a fine tooth comb to see how close they are. I guess thats the only way of knowing
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Rivieraranch
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #25 - 08/17/12 at 12:29:13
 
If you posed photos over at Audio Asylum tube section, Jim McShane or somebody else way more knowledgeable could opine.
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jameskk
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #26 - 08/28/12 at 20:02:20
 
well fella's got my 6n23's , not a bad tube ,got to give it some break in time ,not the gold pins that are  so expensive . alittle forward , but not offensive . more like a real instrument would standout. liking it. ?????
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #27 - 09/01/12 at 13:21:56
 
i've determined that the 6n23p is probably the closest to the 6n1p overall . more air around instruments, someone said ,thats a plus . the best first watt ive heard........
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Lon
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #28 - 09/01/12 at 14:28:40
 
I believe that the 6N23P is very similar electrically to the 6N1P.  I tried a cryo'd pair out briefly in my Torii, but ultimately much prefer the 6N1P for my system and material. May pop them in again one of these days or see how they fare as the driver section in a CSP2 or CSP2+ , , , ,
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jameskk
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #29 - 09/02/12 at 12:09:46
 
Hey Lon . Do the cryo'd tubes make a difference? never tried them . realigning molecules, i guess it cant hurt???
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Lon
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #30 - 09/02/12 at 12:48:06
 
To be honest, the cryo'd tubes I most value and have used the most, the "super cryo'd" tubes from cryoset.com, I may enjoy so much because of the choice of the tube itself. They certainly are a type/brand of 6N1P I haven't had in a non-cryo'd version, so I can't really make direct comparisons.

I do think there may be some improvement from the process that shows up as sonic benefit. I have an open mind about it. One benefit I do think more than probable is longevity. Several sets of cryo'd tubes I have seem to have lasted longer than non-cryo'd versions. I want to say that there are slight tonal improvements in cryo'd versions too, but they're not huge if they're not imagined. . . . .
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #31 - 09/02/12 at 14:36:09
 
Wouldn't the heating of the tube undo what the Cryo had done? That is what we found when we tested cryo'd tools a couple of years back. It seems to holp things that don't get heat dumped back into them, but add heat.......
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Lon
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #32 - 09/02/12 at 15:20:44
 
I don't think so Donnie. At least let me put it this way: there doesn't seem to be audible changes along those lines.

I'm not a scientist, but my reading along the lines of cryogenics makes me think that is not the case.
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #33 - 09/07/12 at 23:41:30
 
why dont we pose that question to cryoset?
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #34 - 09/08/12 at 13:42:53
 
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #35 - 09/09/12 at 12:01:08
 
Yes Lon ,I did that and its said its a permanent thing,so this guy will have to try them ,at least with a input tube or a rectifier. thanks
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #36 - 09/09/12 at 15:15:47
 
Cool. If you're using 6N1P tubes, cryoset.com's super cryo'd version is an excellent tube.
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jameskk
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #37 - 09/14/12 at 10:54:48
 
i do understand  Donnies theory though , being a weldor of 38 years does make me wonder. heat definately does change certain metals like stainless steel and copper.. if you hear that difference is another matter. or how much that would change over time. the metals used for the different components of a tube  seems to be a deciding factor of how it sounds though,ie. greyplate vs blackplate. just a coating or a different metal????? welded componenets vs crimped, gold pins vs steel ones, microphonics. are there any metalurgist in the house? I'm going to try those tubes..........
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Lon
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #38 - 09/14/12 at 12:26:08
 
Yes, but what is the temperature differential between that of operation in a vacuum tube and arc welding?

I really doubt that the temperature in tube use would re-alter the crystal structure. May be wrong.

Again, my favorite cryo'd tube I haven't used in a non-cryo'd version and I may appreciate this tube for its natural qualities despite/beyond any changes from the process. But I tend to believe what I've read about the cryo process.
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jameskk
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #39 - 10/02/12 at 14:12:19
 
yes lon The arc welding actually breaks down the metal. so dont think the tube will get hot enough , two different entities. the question is though , what should you replace the 6n1p-ev with ?  Well a 6n1p. i have a whole shelf of 6dj8's and 6922, and even 6n23p to proove it. that my final answer.
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Lon
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Re: What should I replace the stock ^N1p-EV with ?
Reply #40 - 10/02/12 at 14:45:39
 
I'm sold on the 6N1P as well. I've decided not to stray from it. Great tube in these circuits.
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