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What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box (Read 18307 times)
Basshead
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What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
12/16/09 at 03:41:13
 
I own 2 15” Audio-pulse AXIS subs and a Crown XTI 4000 output is 1200 stereo @ 4 ohms. I have been working with Bassbox pro and Decware enclosures. I am looking for my best options.
What would be my best option for these subs? I am looking for Low 20 to 30 Hz. This will be for my home theater and every day music.
Using Bassbox pro and the air space given from the HOUSEWEECKER; the F3 would be 45Hz not really what I was looking for. Not only will that it be heavy as hell.
But what about building two single Death boxes? I would need to scale it up and I can’t seem to find anyone that tried 15” subs. All I found was to try to scale it to15 to 30 % bigger it’s just an estimate guess. Also does anyone know if this box is better for Sq or low bass?
Another idea would be just to use the slandered ported box with 3.5 cubic feet it would give me 19 Hz but, I wanted to try something different.  
So if anyone has any suggestion what box I should it would be grateful.
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HT-EXT
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #1 - 12/16/09 at 11:43:43
 
The HWK should not have a problem playing that low especially with those subs. The HWK is a large enclosure and I personally think a smaller enclosure will make you just as happy. The DB should also be more than capable of producing low bass but stiil not what I have in mind.

I've had good luck with the Decware inverted wedge type(half wedge) design and by the specs given for those subs it would seem to be ideal in a sealed type enclosure. I know when you crunch the numbers for that sub and sealed enclosure it don't add up to what you are wanting but believe when I say you have got to hear it with your own ears to believe.

I used two Dayton Classic 18"s in a four cubic foot half wedge enclosure. From 14' away two of them put out about 104db @ 31Hz(75w-100w each enclosure). The subs are hardly moving and could easily go 110db, more than enough for HT.

Is this the best enclosure for you? Maybe, but that is just my opinion. The enclosure should be smaller(two cubic foot enclosure) than the others and put out about the same if not more SPL for HT. Again just my two cents. If you would like more info let me know.


HT-EXT
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« Last Edit: 12/16/09 at 13:15:38 by HT-EXT »  

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Basshead
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #2 - 12/16/09 at 16:24:09
 
Hello, HT-EXT
Thank you for the information. I looked into the sealed application for the Decware inverted wedge using my program you were right it doesn’t add up. Why? Giving me 55 Hz in a 1.7 cubic feet box. That is a very small and 55 Hz seam too high.

By playing with Bass-box pro would it sound right if I port the Decware inverted wedge? It would give me 26 Hz using twice the cubic feet. I also used another program 4 cubic feet @ 21 Hz.

My brother owns the JL audio fathom f113 and I am not going to knock it, it sound very good and loud amazing LOW bass for such a small enclosed box but my option it’s not worth $3700.  My goal is to build a box that will BLOW it away using my AXIS 15s

So what would be my best options? I don’t what to spend a bunch of money on supplies on trial and error I know it would help but than I would have a bunch of boxes lying around.
Thank you.
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HT-EXT
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #3 - 12/16/09 at 17:09:08
 
I also use WinISD to see what each sub will do in certain type enclosures. Sometimes it is close, sometines not. With a sealed box and Classic 18" it was not even close. Will the AXIS wedge beat the JL?
I don't know but with my experience with 18" it is not even half the sub that the AXIS is. I have tried the 18" in regular sealed, ported, and Iso-ported. The wedge was the best overall hands down.

For the most part a slotted port enclosure should be the best for what you are wanting. High spl, with low bass response, and descent SQ. It is hard to tell what will work the best until you build it and see or hear. My next project is a half wedge with a Series II 15". Let me know what you decide to build.



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Basshead
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #4 - 12/16/09 at 17:47:32
 
I will work with the inverted wedge ported. Would you recommend slotted ports over round ports?

Is there a web site to convert round ports to wedge? My 1 program only uses round.

I will keep you updated on the outcome when I pick up the supplies.
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« Last Edit: 12/18/09 at 00:58:18 by Basshead »  
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HT-EXT
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #5 - 12/16/09 at 18:39:51
 
WinIsd Pro will do slotted ports.

http://www.linearteam.dk/default.aspx?pageid=winisdpro

The wedge is set up for 10"s or 12"s. For your 15"s the enclosure will need to be 3 cu.ft.(+/-0.5 cu.ft.). Dims. for the half wedge should be 16" x 20" x 20"(HxWxD). The opening should be about 4" x 18.5". Don't forget about the 1" clearence at the rear or the enclosure for the sub baffle. If you are not happy with the results then I would try porting the enclosure.


HT-EXT


Here are the pics of the Half Wedge build.

http://s541.photobucket.com/albums/gg367/HT-EXT/Half%20Wedge%2018/
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« Last Edit: 12/16/09 at 18:43:57 by HT-EXT »  

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Basshead
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #6 - 12/16/09 at 23:26:37
 
I believe I am going to run into a little minor problem if I use the 1” at the rear.
The subs surround is pretty hefty with the woofer in the box it measures to 1” 3/16 tall and with the (Xmax) excursion is roughly 1.10”. That does not count for the movement of the sub.

Now I could mount the sub from the inside but then I will not have easy accuses to it.

Does it need to be 1” and can I be changed?  Or will that defeat the purpose of the wedge.

Basshead

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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #7 - 12/17/09 at 00:36:24
 
The sub should be oriented in the middle of the baffle. You should be about 2" away from the very back. You will prolly still need to check the clearence. You could double the sub baffle and counter stink the sub 3/4 " into the enclosure. Just a thought. I say you could also go maybe 2" at the back but not much more.


HT-EXT


These designs are the slot-ported sub enclosures I was talking about.


http://poundthatsound.com/index.html
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« Last Edit: 12/17/09 at 12:30:08 by HT-EXT »  

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Basshead
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #8 - 12/17/09 at 23:24:04
 
Thanks again HT-EXT,
I just picked up the supplies I will look into how much room I have with the clearance. So you recommend 2” at the back what about the 4” throat should I make it 5”?

Is this just your estimates or is there a mathematic formula to consider? I have also decided to port the box since the height is only ¾" if it does not work out it’s very easily for me to plug if it does not sound good. Port which I configured is L 10.5” W 18.5” H ¾” @ 30 Hz does that sound about right for a 3.15 cubic feet box? I was not to keen with a sealed enclosed box with the ranges of 48 to 50 Hz Not what I am looking for.  

I was also looking at adding Plexiglass so I could see the magnet since the AXIS looks sweet, what to you thing about that or will there be a problem with too much air movement with 1200 watts?  

The Plexiglass size is 19”x7”x 1 ¾” I didn’t think it would make much difference unless it would be a bad idea to add it.

I will keep you up dated. I am start the project this Saturday.

Basshead
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« Last Edit: 12/18/09 at 06:57:09 by Basshead »  
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #9 - 12/18/09 at 06:04:14
 
Report #1 Wedge Box
I drew the full size scale of the one side of box on cardboard. From my past experience I have come to find it is much easier to make any changes in case you run into any problems. This can save you time and money on wood if you screw up plus allow you to measure the exact angle degrees.  

1.   Since I am using 15s the first problem I ran into is I will need to add 4” to the length of the box from the drawing.

2.   The AXIS subs have quit a big surround so I added ½” to the back and added 1” to the front of the wedge from the drawing. At the back of the wedge the clearance that I have from the bottom is 1 1/8” this should give me enough. But I am still a little worried about having enough room seeing as the XMax is 1.10” for these subs. ( is the  XMax excursion one way movement or is the 1” both directions combined? ) If anyone knows?

3.  My next step is recalculating my measurements on paper.

Basshead



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« Last Edit: 12/18/09 at 06:15:46 by Basshead »  
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #10 - 12/20/09 at 22:22:21
 
All are estimates, no math problems to solve with this build. It will be guess work and experimentation. Go with your gut and I applaud your idea for the port. As for the plex I am unfamiliar with using it to build sub enclosures. That is the fun part, when building sub enclosures, build it however you want out of whatever you want. Don't settle for the standard and always challenge the borders of imagination.

Oh yeah, post some pics too.


HT-EXT
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« Last Edit: 12/20/09 at 22:24:11 by HT-EXT »  

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Basshead
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #11 - 12/21/09 at 04:34:36
 
Report # 2 Wedge box

1.   Well all is going as planned but for one minor problem I am 3/4 “ too shot of the length of the box due to the way  I added the port but I should be ok. I could always try poly fill or something if I don’t have enough cubic feet.

2.   Slowly but surely I am getting the one box done. I always double check my measurements to make sure I don’t mess up.

3.   I will try to add my pics another way. The pic I have are too big. 826 kb

4.   One major problem I ran into was with my crown XTI 4000 amp. When I tried it I didn’t get the full potential out of the amp. I am not getting a lot of watts out to the sub it barely thumps. Any suggestions anyone??            I am hoping it’s a setting on my receiver or the amp.  I even tried another brand sub and it was the same. I also by passed my home Denon AVR 3808 receiver and connected it to a car DC player not much change a little louder! Now I didn’t put the sub in a box it was free air but for an amp that’s 3200 watts it should move it big time.  So if anyone could help I would appreciate it. Is it the amp ,should I get a different brand or is it a voltage problem in the cables?

Basshead
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« Last Edit: 12/21/09 at 07:12:26 by Basshead »  
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #12 - 12/21/09 at 12:17:06
 
To my understanding the Crown amps are used mostly for PA audio and require a hot signal usually around +4db input for the correct operation. When it comes to home audio the the signal is around -10db standard and puts you at a disadvantage when using that type amp. One of the ways to correct htis is to use this:

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/ART-CleanBOX-Two-Way-Stereo-Convert...

Beware !!! When mixing home audio and PA the dread 60Hz hum can become a problem. Just my two cents hope it helps.


HT-EXT


If you decide to use the ART CB you might want to read this:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/diy-subwoofers/5310-art-cleanbox-mod-thre...




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« Last Edit: 12/21/09 at 13:14:04 by HT-EXT »  

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Basshead
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #13 - 12/21/09 at 16:17:25
 
Is there another amp you would recommend to use that puts out min 1000 watts per channel that could work with home application?  I do have 30 day money back where I can send back the amp if needed.

Now I found out that the Crowns X-over filters out 90Hz and above that is the lowest, and it allows all Hz to go through the sub maybe that amp isn’t the best for me? Unless I bypass the x-over.

I read that someone had 4-15’s AXIS they used behringer amps on each sub I didn’t want to use that brand due to it not having an x-over. But correct me if I am wrong I will run into the same problem I am having no matter what PA amp I use right?

I was thinking of using two Dayton HPSA 1000W amps one on each sub but I got a good deal on my crown paid $550. If I go with the Dayton it would cost more $1150 I didn't want to spent that much.  Link is the Dayton amp.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-808

I will buy the Art –CB but I don’t want to waist the time if it won’t work since I have less than 25 days to return the amp.
Basshead
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« Last Edit: 12/21/09 at 16:20:52 by Basshead »  
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HT-EXT
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #14 - 12/21/09 at 17:00:30
 
The Dayton is a wise choice. I have heard one HPSA 1000w hooked to two 15"s ported. They hit 115db to 120db with power to spare. The subs you have are prolly better at handle the power but will you need two amps to do the job? I doubt it. The HPSA also has parametric eq and crossover built in so no other equipment should be needed.

If you decide to go with the ART CB, look around, I have found it cheaper other places but can't remember where. Dang whiskey. Again just my $0.02.



HT-EXT
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« Last Edit: 12/21/09 at 18:34:55 by HT-EXT »  

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Basshead
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #15 - 12/21/09 at 17:37:03
 
Since my subs are dual 2 ohm I need to run the amp at 4 ohm. would two Dayton HPSA500 be enough power on each sub? I don't want to under power the subs!
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« Last Edit: 12/21/09 at 17:45:24 by Basshead »  
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #16 - 12/21/09 at 18:34:08
 
Yes !!! That would be plenty of power for those subs. Will you be maxing them out prolly not but the results should be more than impressive. I run multiple subs for my HT but with less than a 100w per enclosure I can still hit SPL levels above 110db. With those amps and subs you should exceed that easily.


HT-EXT
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« Last Edit: 12/21/09 at 23:32:35 by HT-EXT »  

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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #17 - 12/21/09 at 22:56:03
 
I hear people are having problems with the Dayton amps they Hum and it’s a mix about the amps being good/bad from what I am reading. That is my only concern. Do you suggest any other amps? I don’t want to deal with sending an amp back again.

And I appreciate you helping be out with my build! Ur very helpful thank you.  :)

Basshead
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« Last Edit: 12/22/09 at 05:47:44 by Basshead »  
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #18 - 12/22/09 at 11:06:43
 
The 60Hz hum has been a pain in my A** for a long time. I have tried and tried to keep it under controll. I do not own a Dayton plate amp but have friends that do. Some have the problem (60Hz issue) and others don't. If you try to increase the input gain going to the Crown you will prolly run into the same problem.

As for being helpful, I just like to see someone build above and beyond the standard and it turn out most excellent. Imagination is one of the few things that keep me going foward in life. Good luck with your build.


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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #19 - 12/22/09 at 16:19:24
 
From what I am finding out is just about everyone who owns the  HPSA500 has the hum problem so I would rather buy the HPSA1000 looks like not too many problems I think, I can get the 1000 for $389.95 a piece on EBay and its only $250 for the HPSA500a piece on parts express.

I also ran into the Elemental design LT/1300 it’s a little more at $450 but I read somewhere the output is actually 1000 watts and its rated output is 1300 watts. Have you heard anything good about this amp compared to the HPSA?

Basshead
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #20 - 12/22/09 at 17:57:10
 
I have not used the Elemental design LT/1300. By the specs it seems to be a good choice. My friend has the HPSA1000 and runs about 20 pro shakers with it. Volume is set to 3/4 and the shakers do not seem to have hum shakes even with the amp turn wide open. The only problem so far is when the amps gets hot, from long periods of play, on big booms it has shut off. This is after about 3 to 4 hours of use and the shakers do pull alot of current. He has no complaints about it and it has outlasted and outperform all the others.



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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #21 - 12/22/09 at 19:22:10
 
Howdy out there. I will post pics as soon as I can. My dog got to my camera. First let me say I actually put this in my Suburban. Anywho. I finished the House wrecker about a week ago. I used four 15'' Kicker Comps. The specs listed on this site were almost dead on. I'm only running 300 watts (Hifonics amps) and I have to say thank you for the Housewrecker design. I did have to change the round port to a slot port because of the depth of the speakers, but it sounds incredible. I put this in my Suburban and it can easily blur your vision so much that you have to turn it down to see to drive! Thanks again and I'll get some SPL numbers and pics real soon.  
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Basshead
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #22 - 12/23/09 at 06:06:58
 
Hey TheNux, looking forward to the Pic I tried to add mine but I didn’t have much luck. My pics were loo big

I boxed up the Crown last night and I was ready to ship it back today. But I wasn’t fully convinced that it would not work.
So today after my classes I decided not to send it back to try it out again. A friend of mine told me to try a car X-over, that’s what he ended up doing with his home stereo/amps so I tried it as well but It didn’t work also tried a car EQ Nothing!  The other day l munched that I by-passed the Denon and connected the Crown to a car deck and it didn’t work either.
Before I buy the ART CleanBox I am going to call up crown to see if I have it set wrong but they prob will tell me ill need the Art box. I just don’t want to wait buy it than find out it won’t work. I really like the crown amp due to many reasons but from what I am experiencing this it’s a pain in the A**!  I am just getting tired with this problem I guess PA equipment just isn’t made to be compatible.  
I don’t think it’s my Subs would it be? They read 4 Ohms when the subs are connected in series.
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #23 - 12/26/09 at 22:22:16
 
Here are some Pics of the wedge box build in the process.  

http://s765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/bass-head/?action=view&current=PC260149...

Let me know what you think?

Basshead
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #24 - 12/28/09 at 11:45:08
 
Welcome Nux. I have built HWK 8", 10", 12", and 15". I have had good result with all and would have recommeded the HWK to Basshead but the size of the enclosure is a drawback for me. I have had a little better results from smaller builds but don't get me wrong the HWK will rock the whole house. Glad to hear you had good results.

I haft to commend you on your build Basshead. Excellent craftsmanship and an impressive sub too. Your build has caused me to rethink mine. I added two 3" ports to my Series II/half wedge build. I will have pics soon. Again that is a awesome build. Can't wait to hear the results.


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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #25 - 12/28/09 at 15:22:37
 
Thank you HT-EXT, Its coming along I have started my second box and I am waiting for the cleanbox I should have it today. I want make sure it sound the way I want before its complete, I am still leery on my cubic feet I think 2.65 is too small but that’s what my program gave me @ 32 Hz.

If needed I plain on adding .85 cubic feet to the box if necessary @ 26 Hz. I have a plain where I won’t mess up the box and I can still make it look nice. So will see! What do you think?

I must say HT-EXT, I was looking at your other Pics and all I can say is. WOW!! You have an amazing set up. You must have a lot of watts for the total completion?? It looks immense! It must be crazy loud..

Good luck with porting your box I am glad I could help.

So I have been thinking about my next project. I have two 12” Soundstream SPLX quad coils in my car in a fiber glass box it took me 3 mo to build it, I think I may build the HWK or the DB with those subs since I don’t listen to it much.

Basshead  
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #26 - 12/28/09 at 16:38:21
 
I don't think you will haft to worry with cubic feet. Once you hear it you will be amazed. As far as the enclosure programs (WinISD, BassBox,etc), They are great for crunching numbers but are not always able to predict what the enclosure will do in the real world.

Thanks for the compliment. It has took a while to get to this point not to mention money but it was worth it. I only run about 100w per channel(6.1) with the plate amps pushing maybe 125w per sub enclosure. On average, with a good action movie, I hit about 110db. I have had booms around 120db but that is a little loud for my taste.



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« Last Edit: 12/28/09 at 16:39:22 by HT-EXT »  

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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #27 - 12/29/09 at 03:42:33
 
Well I received the cleanbox today and I am very disappointed! The dam thing didn’t improve the amp at all. To my conclusion I feel it’s the crown amp that is giving me all the problems. I don’t suggest anyone out there to get a crown amp for their home audio.  

I had a Carver and a Velodyne SC 1250 amp that never gave me this much trouble. So back to the drawing board I guess.

I will play with it one more time tomorrow and if I can’t get it to work I will be sending it back!

I will be getting the Dayton 1000 watt amp unless there is another one that would be recommended at least 900 watts @ 4ohm?

How about the Dayton SA-1000 compared to the HPSA 1000 is there any other similarity other than the way there mounted, but would I gain or lose anything between the both of them? It would be less work if I used the SA-1000.

I have read a lot of people using the Behringer amps for their home theater but I don’t want to run into the same problems. Since I am fed up with this whole amp thing do you think it’s wise to or stick with the plate amps?

Basshead
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« Last Edit: 12/29/09 at 04:43:19 by Basshead »  
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #28 - 12/29/09 at 14:10:16
 
That is strange ??? I have three ART CB(modified) incorporated in my system and have no complaints. I can't even go halfway on the CB gain before it starts pushing stuff too hard. Sorry to hear about your trouble.

As for which amp to choose, go with your gut, just try to stay away from the Pro Audio amps unless they have the switch on the input side that allows for home use. The switch will be labeled +4db /-10db. For home audio you will need to switch set to -10db. Don't get me wrong, the Pro Audio amps are impressive but not always best for HT. Just my two cents, hope it helps.


What about this amp with free shipping !

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Buttkicker-Power-Amplifier?sku=4822...


http://www.htauthority.com/index_files/ButtKickerAmplifier.htm



HT-EXT
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« Last Edit: 12/29/09 at 16:23:29 by HT-EXT »  

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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #29 - 12/30/09 at 02:10:37
 
I looked at the buttkickes before and I never thought about using their amps. Good suggestion Thanks!  And it’s also cheaper which is a nice.

But it doesn’t have the much too it if you know what I mean (it’s simpler) compared to the plate amps?  I see that the amp has only 1 line level input if I were to use 2 of the buttkickers am I able to use a Y cable?

I have 1 output on the back of my Denon 3808 Receiver and I also have Two L and R RCA out’s that I could use.. What would be recommended to use on the Denon?

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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #30 - 12/30/09 at 11:46:37
 
All you need to do is use the LFE or sub out on the Denon. Run a single cable into the Y-splitter and then a cable into each amp. If you notice that amp has a high level in(Pro Audio) and a low level in(home audio). You will be using the low level input. Just pay attention to were you put the amps, I have heard they can interference with other audio equipment. Good Luck !!!


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Reply #31 - 12/30/09 at 12:20:48
 
Thanks again, now I have a question about cable length. I know the farther you need to go the smaller gage you use ok, I have like 150 feet -two rolls of 12 gages. What would be my better bet to use the long length of 12 gage wires or use a good RCA cable?

I was thinking since I have so much 12 gage that it would be better to us e longer lengths of 12 g to the sub and to use shorter RCA cable. I don’t want to lose any single.
Thank again  HT-EXT

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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #32 - 12/30/09 at 14:09:42
 
A long RCA cable can often pick interference or even worse 60Hz hum. Only the higher grade RCA cables that are heavily shielded will prevent these problems. If you already have the speaker wire I would go head and use it for the long runs. You will not have the problems with the speaker wire that you will with RCA but some power loss is possible with low grade speaker wire. The power loss will be marginal at best so you should not worry, especially with the kind of power you are talking about running. Keep the question coming, I will do my best to answer them.



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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #33 - 12/30/09 at 16:42:55
 
I found a cheaper deal online at audio-discounters.com so I called up musiciansfriend.com and they beat their deal by far so I ordered two Buttkickers. I only paid $245.00 each I saved a lot. But I didn’t get the 2 year coverage for $45.00. Should I? I could always call back today.

I read that some people leave it on 24/7 between 2 to 5 years and never have any problems.

But I plain on turning it off when I don’t use it unless I should leave it on? From what I understand if you turn equipment off/on it can make the equipment get hot/cold therefore the solder joints can crack. But that’s just my thought being the electronics business.

Well I hope I don’t have any problems but will see when I get them.

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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #34 - 12/30/09 at 17:51:09
 
I have not heard of too many failures with the Buttkicker amp. Besides if one amp can run two Buttkickers it is gotta be tough amp. Buttkicker LFE pulls juice like nobody's business so I would think your OK without the warranty.

I always shut down my system when I leave home. To me, leaving them on all the time would prolly shorten the life span of the amp, but that is just my opinion.

Glad to hear you got the amps and that was a killer deal.



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Reply #35 - 01/07/10 at 04:41:04
 
I received the BK amps today and tried them out but, I could not get it to work when connected to the SW output. I don’t know why it’s not working? I even tried adjusting the settings +/- the gain. Any Ideas if I have any setting wrong?

I was able to get it to work using the Pre out Zone 2/3. However when you use those outputs you have no control (the sub) with the master volume combined. As you adjust the master volume up and down, the sub gain stays at the volume its set to, when the mater volume is completely down. I also have a Sony receiver that I tried and I was able to use the SW out put it worked.

I didn’t screw the side of the box or have the top of the lid that makes the wedge; all I can say is that amp has some BALLS! I didn’t even have the amp half way up and I was trying to hold the side of the box together but it just kept rattling. I just wanted to make sure I liked the way it sounded before I complete the box.  The sub was barley moving is sounded amazing I can’t imagine how 2 subs will sound. WOW!

I have come to a conclusion from when I had the crown amp since I have multiple subs that I was playing with, I may have had the sub wired wrong and that’s why the amp was not working correctly.

Comparing the BK verses the Crown I would say I lost 200 watts per sub with the BK, but you will not be able to even tell. It looks more impressive using the 2 amps and it’s probably less work on the amps compared to using the Crown. The only bad thing I could say about the BK amp is the warranty is not as good as the Crown. Another positive is I saved $95. But that’s just my thought.

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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #36 - 01/07/10 at 11:25:48
 
Great to hear of your success. I have been battling port-fart with mine. The ports were too long to begin with so I shorten them. Better output and performance but high volumes still have some port noise. I am going to keep trying different set ups till I find one I like, besides thats half the fun, testing and tuning.

You should have an advantage using two amps over just one, even if the power is not the same. You should be able to tune each enclosure to work with whatever room placement is needed. Room placement will be key to good tuning (with two subs) and being able to adjust each one will be important. I think you are the right path and should have a devastating combination. Be sure to post some results, I have always wanted to try a high excursion sub like that with bunch of power to push it.



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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #37 - 01/07/10 at 16:39:05
 
Have you looked into the12volt.com? There is a calculator with round/slot port lengths. It is very helpful; I used it multiple times with my enclosures. Did you flare out the ports or try different port sizes 2” to 6”? That can change the length of the ports and maybe get rid of your port noise.  

I have used ported boxes with almost all my enclosures for the past 13 years. I have always had good success.
Oh, did you use the same enclosure or built a new one? Just wondering a slot mite work better.

Good luck and if I can help you out in any way just let me know.

http://www.the12volt.com/caraudio/boxcalcs.asp#por

My question is why can’t I get the amp to work using the SW output on the receiver? But I was able to get it to work using the Pre out Zone 2/3.

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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #38 - 01/07/10 at 17:52:28
 
I have used 12volt a couple of times and it is very helpful. Here are a couple more links.


http://www.reaudio.com/speaker_box/LPort_Box_Calc.html
http://www.mobileinformationlabs.com/HowTo-1Woofer-Box-CAL%20Port%20lenth%201.ht...
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/support_pages.php?page_id=165
http://www.lenardaudio.com/education/05_speakers.html
http://www.bcae1.com


I have built some slotted port enclosure and had great results. I was trying to use up some pvc (3" ID) I had laying around but pvc has often caused me trouble mostly in the port-fart area. I did flare the outside of the port but not the inside. I am sure that is the problem because the port tunig is almost ideal. If I stay with the port idea I will prolly go slotted port way.

As for the SW output not work I would check your settings. My receiver has different adjustments for the sub-out (NO, YES, PLUS). I'm not totally sure what could be the problem. If you can give me some more info on the receiver, I will try to find some info for you that might help.


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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #39 - 01/07/10 at 18:18:12
 
Ok thank you, Those are some good sites. I have a Denon AVR 3808CI receiver. I have adjusted the +/- 12 DB up and down, also it shows the SW display is on when when using the  7.1 surround sound.

I do have a Mic that came with the receiver I was thinking that maybe I need to run the test with the amp connected to get the signal to the amp. So it can go through its cycle to each speaker that is connected.

Let me know if you need to know any other info thanks.
I have never used 3” ports maybe that could be the reason of the port noise. I always used 4” and flare both ends or slotted ports. Put that’s just my advice and experience.

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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #40 - 01/07/10 at 19:54:52
 
I just want to clear up some things first so we are talking about the same hook-ups. You are using the SW (pre-out). There is also a SW (EXT-in) connection that will not work as an output. Here is some info from the manual.

                   
                     Subwoofer Mode

Select low range signal to be reproduced by subwoofer.
[Selectable items] LFE  /  LFE+Main

• This can be set when GUI menu “Speaker Configuration” –
“Subwoofer” is set to “Yes”.

• Play music or a movie source and select the mode offering the
strongest bass.

• Select “LFE+Main” if you want the bass signals to always be
produced from the subwoofer.



Hope this helps.



HT-EXT


Here is the stuff from the trouble shooting guide.

No sound is produced from subwoofer.


• Subwoofer’s power not turned
on.        • Turn on the subwoofer’s power.

• The “Subwoofer” setting at
“Speaker configuration” is set to
“No”.      • Set to “Yes”.       page 28


• The subwoofer is not properly
connected.       • Check the connections.     page 9


• The subwoofer’s volume is
turned off.       • Adjust the subwoofer’s volume
to an appropriate level      page 58





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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #41 - 01/08/10 at 04:58:27
 
Yes, I am using the SW pre-out. When I was in the GUI menu I was not able to find the Subwoofer & set it to “YES”.  

So I set up the mic again I was thinking that when I set it the last time since I was not using a SW or amp that there was no signal that could be found . In the process of the test it did detect the subwoofer so least that told me it was working properly.  

Setting the SW to “yes”. It didn’t work but I did what you said I play strong bass and turned it up. Luckily the signal was detected.

Sometimes trying to understand the manuals is a pain especially with this receiver there are so many setting on there.  

Thank you for the help again I appreciate it.

I will keep you updated with my status on the build. I have added the other side of the box but I have not screwed in the piece that houses the sub yet since I was waiting for the amps, I wanted to see how it sounded.

I could only turn up the amp ¼ of the way due to it rattling like crazy. I plan on picking up some 3/4“birch to wrap and stain the box this Saturday and other supplies to go forward.  

Have you ever used Poly fill? I have been thinking about using it if needed.  I know if I use it that I would need to put a screen on the inside of the port so it doesn’t come out. But is there ever a chance the fill can get inside the back of the magnet into the voice coil?

Or the Acoustic foam? I have used it once before.

Basshead


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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #42 - 01/08/10 at 11:17:11
 
Just trying to help. Your owner's manual is 106 pages and I could easily get lost. That is a very nice receiver you have and with all the hook-ups and settings it would hard not to get confused.

I use polyfill on about every build especially subwoofer builds. You can buy some of the flat batten(polyfill) to cover the inside of the port. My method is to pack the corners of the enclosure with poly, leaving a open space behind the subwoofer. Let me know if you would like more info.



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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #43 - 01/14/10 at 05:37:44
 
I have added some more Pics.

It’s coming along. I have been going a lot of sanding and pre drilling for the screws, which is what, is taking most of my time. Plain is to:

1.      Sand the front of the box with the port it’s somewhat not flush.
2.      Paint the inside of the wedge using a glossy black finish or use textured paint. ( try a different look)
3.      Cut the ¾” Oak down to size, wrap the box, screw and stain.
4.      Complete the same steps with the second box.

http://s765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/bass-head/?action=view&current=P1110204...

HT-EXT, How is porting that box going? Hope it’s turning out for you!

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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #44 - 01/14/10 at 11:38:14
 
Again, excellent build. I have since went back to the original design and removed the pvc. I have never been able to run anything bigger than a 10" sub with pvc and not have port issues. That is just my luck but I am going to test the original and record the numbers. Next is to fill in the 3" holes and cut out an opening for a 4" flared port that I have just laying around. I would try slotted but I am running out of wood and don't have enough scrap wood to try it. I am sure when yours is up and running you will be most pleased.



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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #45 - 01/14/10 at 15:40:22
 
Thank you, it is taking a lot of time and work.

It’s too bad the PVC didn’t work out sorry to hear that.  Myself I have never used 3” only 4” and I never had any problems. But I have never used home audio brand subs only Car audio subs.

I have used 4”ports with 12” subs and come to think of it whenever using 15’s used only slotted ports.

Good luck, if you’re in the area I have plenty of wood scrap I could help you out with. I have a hard time throwing out scarps.

Basshead


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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #46 - 01/14/10 at 16:46:08
 
Thanks for the offer. I am sure after I screw up enough cuts I will be able to do the slotted port next. Make sure you pick up a good SPL meter so I will know what those beast are putting out. Next question is are you going to try one in a car?


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Reply #47 - 01/14/10 at 18:40:55
 
I have thought about picking up an SPL meter before but I was looking for one that could do up to 170 DB so I could also use it in the car but they are expensive. Is there any brand that you suggest? I don’t want to spend a whole lot. I also thought about getting one that is the program/mic you use with a computer. Do you know if there any good?

I was thinking of trying one sub box in my car back seat but when I finish the box it will be too heavy to transport it, so will see. I have a Memphis 1500 class D amp which I could use. I have it running two 12” soundstream SPLX subs.

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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #48 - 01/14/10 at 19:11:14
 
I have never tried the one for a computer but would like to. I have one of these (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=245-262) and it works pretty good but only goes to 130db.

My favorite for quick test is the old Radio Shack Analog meter.

http://www.radioshack.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2032222


My personal favorite is the Phonic PAA 2 but it is a little expense.

http://www.phonic.com/en/testers/paa2.html


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Reply #49 - 01/14/10 at 22:39:16
 
Okay cool thank you. I will keep them in mind I am still looking around to see what the best software is out there. I would like at least 150 DB In the price range of $150 with a mic.

I have found this software for the computer but I am not sure how much it would cost for a mic. Do you have any idea? If I understand it right the mic is what determines the DB?

http://www.trueaudio.com/

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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #50 - 01/14/10 at 23:03:48
 
I would be afraid to suggest a mic because it is a little out of my knowledge range. As for software this might be about the same as what you are already looking at.


http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/



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Reply #51 - 01/24/10 at 17:55:55
 
I have the boxes complete with the ¾” MDF and I have been testing it out using mutable DVD’S and song to make sure I have the right sound that I want.  I have the subs downstairs in a remolded basement and since the floor is cement you don’t get the full feeling of the floor shaking but everything upstairs dose, you can feel the bass when in the room on your clothes.

For using a small box ported it sounds amazing, but I am still questioning myself if the box should be bigger. I have been thinking of adding 1 C.F would there be a difference that to the human ear could tell and would it be worth my time to add to the box?
That would give me 3.5 C.F @ around 28 Hz. It is now 2.65 C.F @ 32 Hz.

I am so used to working with car audio in a small area of volume with the pounding bass at your chest. I have placed the subs in opposite areas of the room just to get an idea and I know the placement in different locations can make a difference.

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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #52 - 01/25/10 at 13:14:43
 
Basshead

Be sure to try firing the sub directly into a corner.  That can make a HUGE difference in some rooms.

Be sure you have music in this low frequency range (28hz - 32hz) before you invest time and money building a box to reproduce it better.  Lots of old time stories out there about bass resonator chambers being built under the floors in homes only to never have them fire because no recorded music had notes low enough.  I've always considered the lowest note in most rock to be around 40 hz, but I do have exceptions (although I can only think of one that goes below 32).

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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #53 - 01/25/10 at 22:10:53
 
... aside from the SACDs of Pink Floyd and a few DVD concerts, this is true, more often than not.

The best lows I have heard are mostly recorded live during classical music performances and include heavy percussive crescendos made from enormous bass drums which barely fit into semi-trucks.

Rockers are more into protecting their massive investment in sound gear and most often they roll off the lowest low frequencies, just below the bone sensing frequencies in the 30Hz to 60hz octave. Usually, if they can make the back half of the house feel fifty Hz in their last meal, they are satisfied.

With gating, compression and delay enhancements so rampantly used in these productions, it works, in the heat of the moment and everyone leaves with their ears ringing.

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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #54 - 01/26/10 at 01:33:13
 
Thank you Dan & Dirt,

I will take that into consideration since I don’t really want to put more time than I need into this build and cut to re add for C.F. I will put the boxes closer in the corners with low Hz playing.

I had the boxes about 2 feet from the corner I bet that will make a big change.

I could always try acoustic foam inside maybe to help. I will give an update with my progress when I try it out.

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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #55 - 01/26/10 at 13:59:34
 
I did not really help you much BH, but if I was living in an apartment with no neighbors and had limited space, I would go with a twelve inch Deathbox, because the one I have built is miles ahead of any "magic cube"  type "subwoofer"  I have ever seen.

If I had room to place one discretely and the money to power it properly, there are few enclosures that can top a plain old fifteen inch Housewrecker. The four I have built were all quite successful, (eight inch dual driver,  fifteen inch quad and eighteen inch quad, then an eighteen inch dual driver using crummy forty dollar drivers from Parts Express CloseOut listings- each one exceeded my expectations which were quite high from the start)

Do you have the room for a Housewrecker or are you limited on space?  This is the main question. Very few enclosures can approach TeH Performance of a Housewrecker, but they are big as hell!!
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #56 - 01/26/10 at 19:53:30
 
My space is a little limited since I have a pool table in the room but my entertainment center is recessed in the wall so that gives me some room.

I have thought about building the HW with my subs but I know it would be very heavy so I didn’t really want to deal with that issue also when I plugged in the numbers with my program (Bass-box Pro) it was giving me 55 Hz rang which I was not looking for, but I thought about buying an 18” Soundsplinter to try out in the HW I think that would be a good choice of sub.

I also own 2-12” Soundstream SPLX quad coals subs that I think I am going to take out of my car and try out building two death boxes  that was going to be my next project when I am finished with the wedge.

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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #57 - 01/27/10 at 15:12:20
 
I agree. The HWK is a beast in pretty much all forms but as DD said "BIG AS HELL". A definite drawback when space is limited. Are two enclosures better than one when it comes to tuning? I think so but others might not. Pretty much all set ups will have a drawback, it's just finding out what you can live with and still be happy.

I am getting ready to move out the WO410 and put my HWK15 back in circulation. I gotta know what the difference might be between these two titans. Besides the WO410 is due for an overhaul. Where is Chip Foose when you need him?



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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #58 - 02/01/10 at 23:09:24
 
I have added some Pics with the oak wood.

The next step is to will be to stain and paint the inside of the box.

I will also be making a grill to cover the port and the sub opening,

Enjoy!!

http://s765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/bass-head/?action=view&current=P2010261...

Basshead

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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #59 - 02/04/10 at 11:45:41
 
VERY NICE !!! Can't wait to see the final results. As for my build, it is kinda of stalled. I am thinking of stepping up to a better subwoofer, instead of using the Series II woofers. Don't get me wrong they work great but I think a sub with a little more X-max(+18mm) would perform better in the Half-Wedge set up.

Again, that is a great build you have going on and keep the pics coming.



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Basshead
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #60 - 02/04/10 at 15:29:01
 
Thank you!! Smiley It’s taking a lot longer than I expected I try to work on it every day but sometimes I don’t get the chance.

Working with the red oak is a slight complicated when cutting this wood it tends to chip so if you ever work with the oak be very careful, it was working out until I started on the top of the box there are some chips so I hope I can fill it in with wood buddy.

Well I hope it all works out with you that’s too bad that sub you have won’t perform the way you want. Are there any subs you have in mind? Have you thought about using a car audio Vs home theater woofer?

I almost forgot to mention, I picked up an SPL meter.

It’s all used but I got a good deal on it. I am using the tureRTA program with level 3, M-Audio USB-Pre, and Behringer ECM800 Mic.

I have not had the chance to try it out on the subs seeing as I don’t want to keep taking the subs in/out of the box. The subs are a pain to move around I will just wait till have the boxes complete.

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HT-EXT
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #61 - 02/04/10 at 16:41:42
 
The Series II does excellent job but if I am going to have the best performance possible I need a subwoofer, not a woofer. I am looking at the RE Audio and the Fi subs. The problem is budget, with the limit around $300, it is hard to find two 15"s with high excursion and not haft to pay an arm or a leg. There are alot of choices and I have no problem using a car audio sub for HT.

Glad to hear you found some good test equipment. I think you will like RTA program and it should be more accurate than the old SPL meter or PAA2 for that matter. Good Luck.


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« Last Edit: 02/04/10 at 16:42:25 by HT-EXT »  

" I TRY TO THINK BUT NUT'EN HAPPENS! " CURLY
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Basshead
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #62 - 02/04/10 at 18:21:29
 
I have updated the Pics of my project. I still need to make the box smooth than install the subwoofer test and I will than meter the SPL .

Let me know what you think?

http://s765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/bass-head/?action=view&current=P2110329...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BEraAzY6K0


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« Last Edit: 02/18/10 at 04:36:07 by Basshead »  
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HT-EXT
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #63 - 02/25/10 at 19:19:39
 
IMPRESSIVE !!!    

VERY IMPRESSIVE !!!


I could not have picture that build turning out any better. You have good skills when it comes to wood working, maybe the HWK will be the next project?



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« Last Edit: 02/25/10 at 19:20:16 by HT-EXT »  

" I TRY TO THINK BUT NUT'EN HAPPENS! " CURLY
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Basshead
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #64 - 02/25/10 at 20:05:37
 
THANK YOU MUCHLY!, If I had the room for the HW I would love to maybe down the road.

Do you think 115 DB for that subwoofer is average or about right? Using my program it was right on the money 500 to 1000 Watts= 115 DB now I know I could of tuned the box to a higher Hz I could of accomplished 120 DB but this build was for home theater so I wanted low bass not SPL I am happy with the outcome.  I used my oscilloscope to adjust the amp so it don’t clip, but I can turn the amp up 90% I can’t clip the amp these subwoofers can take some power. WOW!
I would think for using the AXIS it would be more performance but then again I am so use to building in a vehicle were everything is compressed and your space is limited the SPL would probably be higher in a car.  

There are a couple of projects I am thinking of working on. One is on parts-express they have a Tang band W8 for a great deal my idea is to build on a budget for the average person can afford. I want to combined the wedge idea and a cylinder tube I am kicking it around figuring the best possible way to design it at low cost also to be impressive as well.

I would also like to build my HI FI tower speakers as well to match my subwoofer boxes. Here is what I am thinking about building.

http://www.geocities.com/cc00541/Statements.html

The Statement look all around excellent in performance but it is expensive $800 for parts without box materials. I have seen many others but I can’t stop thinking about these ones.

Here are a few others I have found unless you would suggest any other HI FI towers to build?

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=28655

So now I will half to wait for the projects due to my computer is going to crap and I will soon need to buy a new one.

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« Last Edit: 02/25/10 at 21:06:53 by Basshead »  
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #65 - 03/10/10 at 18:50:29
 
Once you have built your own subs you will want everything else built by your own hands. I thought I would be happy with store bought tower speakers but soon work out plains for my mini-towers. It is a sickness that is hard to kick. The urge to build.


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" I TRY TO THINK BUT NUT'EN HAPPENS! " CURLY
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