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What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box (Read 21294 times)
Basshead
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What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
12/16/09 at 03:41:13
 
I own 2 15 Audio-pulse AXIS subs and a Crown XTI 4000 output is 1200 stereo @ 4 ohms. I have been working with Bassbox pro and Decware enclosures. I am looking for my best options.
What would be my best option for these subs? I am looking for Low 20 to 30 Hz. This will be for my home theater and every day music.
Using Bassbox pro and the air space given from the HOUSEWEECKER; the F3 would be 45Hz not really what I was looking for. Not only will that it be heavy as hell.
But what about building two single Death boxes? I would need to scale it up and I cant seem to find anyone that tried 15 subs. All I found was to try to scale it to15 to 30 % bigger its just an estimate guess. Also does anyone know if this box is better for Sq or low bass?
Another idea would be just to use the slandered ported box with 3.5 cubic feet it would give me 19 Hz but, I wanted to try something different.
So if anyone has any suggestion what box I should it would be grateful.
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HT-EXT
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #1 - 12/16/09 at 11:43:43
 
The HWK should not have a problem playing that low especially with those subs. The HWK is a large enclosure and I personally think a smaller enclosure will make you just as happy. The DB should also be more than capable of producing low bass but stiil not what I have in mind.

I've had good luck with the Decware inverted wedge type(half wedge) design and by the specs given for those subs it would seem to be ideal in a sealed type enclosure. I know when you crunch the numbers for that sub and sealed enclosure it don't add up to what you are wanting but believe when I say you have got to hear it with your own ears to believe.

I used two Dayton Classic 18"s in a four cubic foot half wedge enclosure. From 14' away two of them put out about 104db @ 31Hz(75w-100w each enclosure). The subs are hardly moving and could easily go 110db, more than enough for HT.

Is this the best enclosure for you? Maybe, but that is just my opinion. The enclosure should be smaller(two cubic foot enclosure) than the others and put out about the same if not more SPL for HT. Again just my two cents. If you would like more info let me know.


HT-EXT
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« Last Edit: 12/16/09 at 13:15:38 by HT-EXT »  

" I TRY TO THINK BUT NUT'EN HAPPENS! " CURLY
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Basshead
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #2 - 12/16/09 at 16:24:09
 
Hello, HT-EXT
Thank you for the information. I looked into the sealed application for the Decware inverted wedge using my program you were right it doesnt add up. Why? Giving me 55 Hz in a 1.7 cubic feet box. That is a very small and 55 Hz seam too high.

By playing with Bass-box pro would it sound right if I port the Decware inverted wedge? It would give me 26 Hz using twice the cubic feet. I also used another program 4 cubic feet @ 21 Hz.

My brother owns the JL audio fathom f113 and I am not going to knock it, it sound very good and loud amazing LOW bass for such a small enclosed box but my option its not worth $3700.  My goal is to build a box that will BLOW it away using my AXIS 15s

So what would be my best options? I dont what to spend a bunch of money on supplies on trial and error I know it would help but than I would have a bunch of boxes lying around.
Thank you.
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HT-EXT
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #3 - 12/16/09 at 17:09:08
 
I also use WinISD to see what each sub will do in certain type enclosures. Sometimes it is close, sometines not. With a sealed box and Classic 18" it was not even close. Will the AXIS wedge beat the JL?
I don't know but with my experience with 18" it is not even half the sub that the AXIS is. I have tried the 18" in regular sealed, ported, and Iso-ported. The wedge was the best overall hands down.

For the most part a slotted port enclosure should be the best for what you are wanting. High spl, with low bass response, and descent SQ. It is hard to tell what will work the best until you build it and see or hear. My next project is a half wedge with a Series II 15". Let me know what you decide to build.



HT-EXT
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" I TRY TO THINK BUT NUT'EN HAPPENS! " CURLY
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Basshead
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #4 - 12/16/09 at 17:47:32
 
I will work with the inverted wedge ported. Would you recommend slotted ports over round ports?

Is there a web site to convert round ports to wedge? My 1 program only uses round.

I will keep you updated on the outcome when I pick up the supplies.
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« Last Edit: 12/18/09 at 00:58:18 by Basshead »  
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HT-EXT
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #5 - 12/16/09 at 18:39:51
 
WinIsd Pro will do slotted ports.

http://www.linearteam.dk/default.aspx?pageid=winisdpro

The wedge is set up for 10"s or 12"s. For your 15"s the enclosure will need to be 3 cu.ft.(+/-0.5 cu.ft.). Dims. for the half wedge should be 16" x 20" x 20"(HxWxD). The opening should be about 4" x 18.5". Don't forget about the 1" clearence at the rear or the enclosure for the sub baffle. If you are not happy with the results then I would try porting the enclosure.


HT-EXT


Here are the pics of the Half Wedge build.

http://s541.photobucket.com/albums/gg367/HT-EXT/Half%20Wedge%2018/
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« Last Edit: 12/16/09 at 18:43:57 by HT-EXT »  

" I TRY TO THINK BUT NUT'EN HAPPENS! " CURLY
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Basshead
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #6 - 12/16/09 at 23:26:37
 
I believe I am going to run into a little minor problem if I use the 1 at the rear.
The subs surround is pretty hefty with the woofer in the box it measures to 1 3/16 tall and with the (Xmax) excursion is roughly 1.10. That does not count for the movement of the sub.

Now I could mount the sub from the inside but then I will not have easy accuses to it.

Does it need to be 1 and can I be changed?  Or will that defeat the purpose of the wedge.

Basshead

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HT-EXT
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #7 - 12/17/09 at 00:36:24
 
The sub should be oriented in the middle of the baffle. You should be about 2" away from the very back. You will prolly still need to check the clearence. You could double the sub baffle and counter stink the sub 3/4 " into the enclosure. Just a thought. I say you could also go maybe 2" at the back but not much more.


HT-EXT


These designs are the slot-ported sub enclosures I was talking about.


http://poundthatsound.com/index.html
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« Last Edit: 12/17/09 at 12:30:08 by HT-EXT »  

" I TRY TO THINK BUT NUT'EN HAPPENS! " CURLY
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Basshead
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #8 - 12/17/09 at 23:24:04
 
Thanks again HT-EXT,
I just picked up the supplies I will look into how much room I have with the clearance. So you recommend 2 at the back what about the 4 throat should I make it 5?

Is this just your estimates or is there a mathematic formula to consider? I have also decided to port the box since the height is only " if it does not work out its very easily for me to plug if it does not sound good. Port which I configured is L 10.5 W 18.5 H @ 30 Hz does that sound about right for a 3.15 cubic feet box? I was not to keen with a sealed enclosed box with the ranges of 48 to 50 Hz Not what I am looking for.

I was also looking at adding Plexiglass so I could see the magnet since the AXIS looks sweet, what to you thing about that or will there be a problem with too much air movement with 1200 watts?

The Plexiglass size is 19x7x 1 I didnt think it would make much difference unless it would be a bad idea to add it.

I will keep you up dated. I am start the project this Saturday.

Basshead
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« Last Edit: 12/18/09 at 06:57:09 by Basshead »  
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Basshead
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #9 - 12/18/09 at 06:04:14
 
Report #1 Wedge Box
I drew the full size scale of the one side of box on cardboard. From my past experience I have come to find it is much easier to make any changes in case you run into any problems. This can save you time and money on wood if you screw up plus allow you to measure the exact angle degrees.

1. Since I am using 15s the first problem I ran into is I will need to add 4 to the length of the box from the drawing.

2. The AXIS subs have quit a big surround so I added to the back and added 1 to the front of the wedge from the drawing. At the back of the wedge the clearance that I have from the bottom is 1 1/8 this should give me enough. But I am still a little worried about having enough room seeing as the XMax is 1.10 for these subs. ( is the XMax excursion one way movement or is the 1 both directions combined? ) If anyone knows?

3. My next step is recalculating my measurements on paper.

Basshead



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« Last Edit: 12/18/09 at 06:15:46 by Basshead »  
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HT-EXT
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #10 - 12/20/09 at 22:22:21
 
All are estimates, no math problems to solve with this build. It will be guess work and experimentation. Go with your gut and I applaud your idea for the port. As for the plex I am unfamiliar with using it to build sub enclosures. That is the fun part, when building sub enclosures, build it however you want out of whatever you want. Don't settle for the standard and always challenge the borders of imagination.

Oh yeah, post some pics too.


HT-EXT
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« Last Edit: 12/20/09 at 22:24:11 by HT-EXT »  

" I TRY TO THINK BUT NUT'EN HAPPENS! " CURLY
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Basshead
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #11 - 12/21/09 at 04:34:36
 
Report # 2 Wedge box

1. Well all is going as planned but for one minor problem I am 3/4 too shot of the length of the box due to the way I added the port but I should be ok. I could always try poly fill or something if I dont have enough cubic feet.

2. Slowly but surely I am getting the one box done. I always double check my measurements to make sure I dont mess up.

3. I will try to add my pics another way. The pic I have are too big. 826 kb

4. One major problem I ran into was with my crown XTI 4000 amp. When I tried it I didnt get the full potential out of the amp. I am not getting a lot of watts out to the sub it barely thumps. Any suggestions anyone??            I am hoping its a setting on my receiver or the amp. I even tried another brand sub and it was the same. I also by passed my home Denon AVR 3808 receiver and connected it to a car DC player not much change a little louder! Now I didnt put the sub in a box it was free air but for an amp thats 3200 watts it should move it big time. So if anyone could help I would appreciate it. Is it the amp ,should I get a different brand or is it a voltage problem in the cables?

Basshead
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« Last Edit: 12/21/09 at 07:12:26 by Basshead »  
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HT-EXT
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #12 - 12/21/09 at 12:17:06
 
To my understanding the Crown amps are used mostly for PA audio and require a hot signal usually around +4db input for the correct operation. When it comes to home audio the the signal is around -10db standard and puts you at a disadvantage when using that type amp. One of the ways to correct htis is to use this:

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/ART-CleanBOX-Two-Way-Stereo-Convert...

Beware !!! When mixing home audio and PA the dread 60Hz hum can become a problem. Just my two cents hope it helps.


HT-EXT


If you decide to use the ART CB you might want to read this:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/diy-subwoofers/5310-art-cleanbox-mod-thre...




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« Last Edit: 12/21/09 at 13:14:04 by HT-EXT »  

" I TRY TO THINK BUT NUT'EN HAPPENS! " CURLY
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Basshead
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #13 - 12/21/09 at 16:17:25
 
Is there another amp you would recommend to use that puts out min 1000 watts per channel that could work with home application? I do have 30 day money back where I can send back the amp if needed.

Now I found out that the Crowns X-over filters out 90Hz and above that is the lowest, and it allows all Hz to go through the sub maybe that amp isnt the best for me? Unless I bypass the x-over.

I read that someone had 4-15s AXIS they used behringer amps on each sub I didnt want to use that brand due to it not having an x-over. But correct me if I am wrong I will run into the same problem I am having no matter what PA amp I use right?

I was thinking of using two Dayton HPSA 1000W amps one on each sub but I got a good deal on my crown paid $550. If I go with the Dayton it would cost more $1150 I didn't want to spent that much.  Link is the Dayton amp.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-808

I will buy the Art CB but I dont want to waist the time if it wont work since I have less than 25 days to return the amp.
Basshead
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« Last Edit: 12/21/09 at 16:20:52 by Basshead »  
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HT-EXT
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Re: What box for my application?Housewrecker/Death box
Reply #14 - 12/21/09 at 17:00:30
 
The Dayton is a wise choice. I have heard one HPSA 1000w hooked to two 15"s ported. They hit 115db to 120db with power to spare. The subs you have are prolly better at handle the power but will you need two amps to do the job? I doubt it. The HPSA also has parametric eq and crossover built in so no other equipment should be needed.

If you decide to go with the ART CB, look around, I have found it cheaper other places but can't remember where. Dang whiskey. Again just my $0.02.



HT-EXT
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« Last Edit: 12/21/09 at 18:34:55 by HT-EXT »  

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