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$4K System? (Read 7303 times)
Lon
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Re: $4K System?
Reply #45 - 12/05/09 at 13:38:11
 
Ah, let's hijack the thread.

I've never found the perfect settings for the ZCD period in my system, it's always just a bit too forward for my situation, but I find it works best for me when the output is down, about the standard 2V or so.

But the CSP2 shines with the Torii for me when it's WIDE OPEN, full gain.  This setting on the CSP2 and my Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/CD player really shines.  Heft and weight and realism that surpasses the Torii without the CSP2, for me and my room. That's what I recommend trying, turn the gain on the CSP2 all the way up.  The Torii likes it that way.  I THINK it's adding some compression, but that seems to make cds more like lps to me.  Anyway, I've been running the system this way a few weeks and enjoying it a lot.
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« Last Edit: 12/05/09 at 15:29:39 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,
PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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nsj
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Re: $4K System?
Reply #46 - 12/05/09 at 15:45:50
 
Lon & Parker,

Please DO hijack the thread. This all educational to me! Today I order the ERR's, but, before I do, can someone explain to me what the difference(s) is(are) between the ERR's and the "retail radial" that is also sold?

I realize that Steve will only market the 200i if it meets his high standards, but, I am willing to wit a while to see. I like the simplicity and lack of clutter of the idea...

Thanks
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nsj
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Re: $4K System?
Reply #47 - 12/05/09 at 15:46:56
 
oops, I meant "wait a while"...
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Lon
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Re: $4K System?
Reply #48 - 12/05/09 at 16:09:12
 
NSJ,

I only know the technical differences, not the actual sonic differences.  I hope to discover that (I will have a pair of ERRs in time, I got a great deal from Bob for two pair of speakers and got the IT Radials first).

First off:  the IT model will break your budget. Smiley  So fahgeddaboutit.

Secondly:  they're similar in design but quite different.  The IT models have a sort of "Wilson Audio" look and have the top section comprising a front firing speaker and the ribbon tweeter mounted right above that.  The horizontally mounted "radial" speaker is more concealed than on the ERR and only the top inch of the speaker cone is visible from the listening seat.

What Bob has told me and what I would surmise from comparisons between the IT and my RL2 model Radials is that the IT are more of a mix of a conventional high end speaker design and the Radial design. The best of both worlds is how I would describe it. More precise and a bit more forward than the ERRs would be my guess. They're definitely going to have a different sound from the design.  I bet I'd love either one, who knows I might love the ERR more as I have been so fascinated with the radialness of the Radials.  I'll find out!
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,
PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Lon
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Re: $4K System?
Reply #49 - 12/05/09 at 16:12:30
 
A photo that Bob sent me of the IT Radials, hope it shows up.

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IT_1.jpg

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,
PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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nsj
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Re: $4K System?
Reply #50 - 12/05/09 at 16:34:03
 
Lon,

Thanks for that and yes, I did receive the photo. They are very impressive speakers!

I'm off to order the ERR's!  ;)

nsj
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Lon
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Re: $4K System?
Reply #51 - 12/05/09 at 20:34:50
 
You have done well Grasshopper. . . .
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,
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Parker
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Re: $4K System?
Reply #52 - 12/06/09 at 06:48:38
 
Hello Everyone,

Okay I'll give those settings a shot.

Basically you're saying. Knobs on ZCD set pretty low, like 1-3 clicks. Little trim pots on CSP2 full blast. Volume on Tori relative to how loud I can take it in my room.

NSJ basically what we're talking about is playing around with the output voltages of the different sources and pre amps to see how it affects sound.

Here is something interesting in regards to the ZCD and CSP2 with headphones (no speakers). I'm running a pair of Senn HD650's in case you're curious and my cds are all originals and good examples of imaging and sonics.

When I hoooked up the ZCD tube output and factory output both to the CSP2 (note it has two inputs) and tried to level match them, I found that it was very hard to hear the difference between the two. At this point my ZCD had about 50 hours on it and my CSP2 is from 2006 so it has plenty of time on it (but I did switch to new tubes about 200 hours ago).

I mention this because when you do this with a pair of speakers (in this case I'm just talking about going ZCD>Tori>Speakers and you switch the inputs on the Tori from the Tube ZCD to the Factory ZCD it sounds remarkably different.

Of course the tube output sounds way cleaner. I really don't know how to put it other than it sounds better in every way.

So when I was on the phone with Steve a while ago I mentioned this and he wasn't surprised. Basically he was saying that the CSP2 helps so much with a source that what I was hearing with the headphones make sense.

Lon, I'll try those settings and let you know. I'm all for making things sound better and my CSP2 is just sitting around now doing nothing so why not give it a go.

Have a good night everyone,
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Parker
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Re: $4K System?
Reply #53 - 12/14/09 at 08:24:03
 
Update on CSP2 with ZCD and Tori II.

Hey Lon and Anyone Else Reading,

I tried those settings with the CSP2 and since my wall outlet only has two outlets I had to use one of those computer backup power thingys I had.

In general I didn't seem to get a big benefit from inserting the CSP2 and I really picked up more hum. My guess is that was the power transformer computer backup thingy.

I've heard lots of other people say the CSP2 is just candy between a ZCD and a Tori so I'll have to run power from somewhere else and see if I can get rid of the hum.

Have a good night all!

Parker Smiley
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Lon
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"Love without
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Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 7668
Re: $4K System?
Reply #54 - 12/14/09 at 13:08:00
 
Parker,

Thanks for trying that out.

Two things:

One, I think that the ZCD and CSP2 in the chain are generating that hum. I found that when I had the Monoblocks (Steve called these his noisiest amp), the ZCD and the CSP2 in the system the hum had overwhelmed me, which was why I went for the Integrated (and then had that great offer for the Torii from Bob).  Even with these amps the ZCD and the CSP2 combo gave me noticeable hum that was just enough to ignore.

My solution was to get better sound and no hum altogether with a different cd player, the Sony SCD-XA5400ES.  When the CSP2 is all the way up there is a bit of hum (not listenable from the listening seat).

In the last few weeks I've changed my CSP2 settings again to just less than halfway on the gain pots.  I had moved my speakers and changed my listening seat from a couch to a recliner and as is the case with my system this changed the sound.  Also I had begun to feel that with the pots all the way open I was losing some dynamics in favor of that fat rich tonal balance that seemed right.  Experimenting with speaker placement and CSP2 gain I found that the pots at just under halfway work well for me now.

Experimenting is something I'm always tempted to do with this system as it is so revealing and responsive.  I confess it never really stays in the same configuration for more than a few months, as my living space changes a bit whether Anadina and I are spending a lot of time together there, which instruments and amps are living in the room for a spell, etc.

I hope you can find a nice zone for the CSP2 and Torii together, they do work very well together in my experience.  If not, you have been getting excellent sound without it so returning to that configuration is no crime! Smiley
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,
PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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BLFST
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Re: $4K System?
Reply #55 - 12/17/09 at 22:39:15
 
NSJ,

Not only did I miss you personal emails for awhile, I guess that I missed this thread.  I usually just open up the last message posted on each main forum topic forgetting that there may have been other sub-topics going on.  Glad that everyone was able to answer your questions and that the Torrii is on its way to you.  Like I mentioned in the personal email, it is a GREAT amp and I am EXTREMELY happy with mine.

I just wanted to let you know of one other source of cables and interconnects if you are still shopping around for some.  I have used Signal Cable with my sytems for a few years now.  They are extremely affordable given what the market is generally asking for theirs, and they sound great.  I think that you can find them at www.signalcable.com.  I don't mean to take anything away from Steve, but it is another good option.  

Again, congrats on the system that you have coming in.

bill
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nsj
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Re: $4K System?
Reply #56 - 12/18/09 at 01:20:57
 
Bill,

Thanks for your info. Everyone has been incredibly helpful on this forum and made a newbie feel welcome.

I have ordered the Decware interconnects, but, I am still shopping around for the speaker wires. Clear Day Cables were also suggested earlier.

Again,

Thanks!
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