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TORI MK II w/ MG44 spkrs, vol prob w/phono input (Read 4664 times)
DaveK
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TORI MK II w/ MG44 spkrs, vol prob w/phono input
09/05/09 at 15:21:11
 
I'm a new TORI MK II owner, and so far I've been delighted with it.

However, I do have one issue. I'm using the TORI MK II with MG44 speakers. I don't seem to be getting the volume out of TORI with using my turntable for input. I don't seem to have this issue using my CD player, but I did have to turn up the output volume of the CD player.

I don't think this problem is directly related to the TORI, but it looks like I may need a new phono stage and/or a pre amp with some additional gain.

My current phono stage is a (cheep) JEC? TC-760LC MC/MM Phono Preamp. It's rated for a gain of 58db when use with a MC cartridge. This seems to by typical of other phono preamps. This did work, volume wise, with my previous system.

I do plan to replace this, so I don't mind spending some money here, but I want to make sure I'm doing the right thing.

I'd like to know if adding a pre amp with additional gain is correct, or should I be looking for a phono stage with much higher gain? I'd also like to know what other people are using as a phono stage with the TORI, and what other would recommend to get better volume out of the TORI with using a turntable for input.

Thanks,
Dave
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Lon
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Re: TORI MK II w/ MG44 spkrs, vol prob w/phono input
Reply #1 - 09/05/09 at 15:35:23
 
I'm very happy you are enjoying the Torii Mark II; I really enjoy mine!

I don't listen to LPs with any frequency, and use a different system when I do.  If you are already planning on a new phono preamp, I'd go that route and get one with a higher output (?)  If not, the CSP2 or a similar preamp with higher gain should solve your dilemna.

My Torii is quieter than it could be. . . because I've been using 6N2P tubes, and really enjoying them.
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DaveK
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Re: TORI MK II w/ MG44 spkrs, vol prob w/phono input
Reply #2 - 09/05/09 at 20:29:59
 
Thanks for your reply.

Yes the CSP2 could be a possible solution. I'll do that if there is no other way, but since I just got the TORI MK II and the MG44 speakers, I'm trying to not spend another $795 on a CSP2.

This brings up an additional question, how does the CSP2 compare to the ZKIT ZSP1 pre-amplifier kit? I realize that the ZSP1 is not a "shake the box" kit as far as building it goes, but it doesn't look impossible. The good part about it is that the cost would be only about $328 ($298 for the kit, and $30 for the chassis)
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BLFST
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Re: TORI MK II w/ MG44 spkrs, vol prob w/phono input
Reply #3 - 09/05/09 at 22:03:07
 
Dave,

I have had my Torri MKII for about a month and a half now, and like you, I have really been enjoying it.  Probably have about 125 hours or so on it.  Unlike you, I also splurged and purchased the HDT speakers and the ZP3 phono stage prior to purchasing the Torrii.  I was just considering the Torrii for a future purchase when Steve offered his summer special.

I can't answer to you current speakers and phono stage, but I just wanted to let you know that ZP3 is an incredible phono stage tied directly to the Torrii.  I have more available volume/power than I will ever need.  IF the two inputs available on the Torrii are all you think that you will ever need, I would recommend just purchasing the ZP3 inlieu of the preamp.  Just a side note, I use a high output MM by Goldring with my table.  If you are using a MC cartridge with your table, you will probably have to step the gain up even more.  However, I stress that I am not familiar with MC cartridges, so I may be off base here.  The only down side is that it looks like you might not be able to spend the money on the ZP3 at this point (very similiar in price to the CSP2).

At any rate, glad that you are enjoying the Torrii.  

bill
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DaveK
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Re: TORI MK II w/ MG44 spkrs, vol prob w/phono input
Reply #4 - 09/05/09 at 22:59:53
 
I don't doubt that the ZP3 is an excellent phono stage, but by the time I get that and a ZMC1 so I can use a moving coil cartridge, we are talking about $1390  ($895 + $495).

Even then I'm not sure if I'd get the gain needed to drive the MG44 speakers. If I ended up still needing a pre amp, we are talking $2185 for a CSP2 + ZP3 + ZMC1.

While I wouldn't rule out spending that much, I'd prefer not to, if I can help it. I will keep your idea in mind though.

BTW, since the phono stage I currently have supports MM and MC cartridges, I did try a classic (read old) Grace F-9 MM cartridge I have. This cartridge has comparatively low output for a MM cartridge. This didn't work well at all, but this may have been more due to the age of the cartridge.  

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BLFST
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Re: TORI MK II w/ MG44 spkrs, vol prob w/phono input
Reply #5 - 09/06/09 at 19:49:31
 
Dave,

I FULLY understand your trepidation on spending too much on the hardware.  Like I alluded to, I orginally just wanted to purchase some high effeciency speakers, and upgrade to the phono stage and a new amp at a much later date, but alas, it didn't work out that way.  Anyway, I am VERY happy with the purchases, but I just regret that I now have two amps just sitting and not getting used (I would sell on ebay or audiogon, but I really don't want to set up a paypal account).

Good luck in resolving your dilema.

bill
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mike_gagne
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Re: TORI MK II w/ MG44 spkrs, vol prob w/phono input
Reply #6 - 09/07/09 at 00:13:19
 
Bill, the issue of what to with old gear is burning for me also. Paypal and eBay dont cut it either. Its like asking for phishing and hacker attacks after you use them as well as the whole transaction itself.
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BLFST
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Re: TORI MK II w/ MG44 spkrs, vol prob w/phono input
Reply #7 - 09/07/09 at 01:54:30
 
Mike,

Just wanted to respond to your post but I really don't want to distract from Daves original question on his subject.

Anyway; I would just advertise the amps locally, but I am located in rural Montana and there just aren't a lot of audiophiles in my part of the country that would spend anywhere near the money that my amps would bring in an area with more people.  I guess that until I can find someone who would advertise for me online, I am just stuck with having a couple of backup amps.

Take care.

bill
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DaveK
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Re: TORI MK II w/ MG44 spkrs, vol prob w/phono input
Reply #8 - 09/07/09 at 02:49:46
 
Like you I came to the Decware site looking for speakers. I saw the special "end of the black plate tops" sale for the TORI MK II. Then I  looked at what when it to it, and figured it was the "deal of a lifetime".

The MG44 speakers were also a comparative bargain, even at their normal price. Especially when you compare them to the "mass market" products out there. I especially liked how they were a transmission line design.  With an efficiency of 94dB, they are about the same as most of the Decware speakers.

Except for the volume problem with my phono input, I have found the combo to be fantastic.

So far no one has come up the the "Oh, you just make this simple adjustment" or "you just change this part" type of inexpensive solution.

At this time I'm leaning toward getting the ZSP1 kit, since it's an inexpensive solution, but I'd like to know how that compares to the CSP2. Later, I can replace the phono stage.  

As for getting rid of old gear, I also despise Ebay and PayPal. So far I've been able to give away my old stuff, and I've found good homes for them. However, I'd sure hate to give away something that was really good.


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Re: TORI MK II w/ MG44 spkrs, vol prob w/phono input
Reply #9 - 09/07/09 at 02:59:47
 
As an aside, there's more payment options on A'gon, for instance, than PayPal.
I've done a number of transactions there without it.
Just a thought--
Don
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Scotty
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Re: TORI MK II w/ MG44 spkrs, vol prob w/phono input
Reply #10 - 09/11/09 at 21:06:03
 
Hey Dave,

Sorry if this is stupid, but I just wanted to make sure you have the input impedence range selector button on the rear in the correct position:

From the specs:

selectable hi range (100 ohm) / lo range (20 ohm) MC input impedance

Not sure which one does what but have you tried both settings?

Hope this helps,
Scotty
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Scotty
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Re: TORI MK II w/ MG44 spkrs, vol prob w/phono input
Reply #11 - 09/11/09 at 21:09:49
 
Also, you could try posting in the Vinyl Lovers Forum here:
http://www.audiophiletalk.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?board=Vinyl
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DaveK
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Re: TORI MK II w/ MG44 spkrs, vol prob w/phono input
Reply #12 - 11/01/09 at 07:51:00
 
Just to follow up on my problem. It has been resolved. It turned out to be several minor problems. On the old amplifier the volume problems were masked quite a bit because it had a lot more raw power.  

The areas where I found problems were -

Cheep connectors on the speaker cables. Replacing them helped a lot.

Replaced the interconnect cables. This also was an improvement. Much cleaner sound now also, and not even the very slight hum I had at full volume.

Replaced the cheep phono preamp with a much better one. I would have liked to get the Decware one, but that was just too much money for right now, so I settled on a Pro-Ject SEII. It's main virtue is that is a lot less expensive. This was a major improvement.

Replaced the phone cartridge with a Denon DL-103r. Again, something decent, but comparatively inexpensive. This was a major improvement. I guess cartridges do deteriorate with age.

Replaced the tonearm to preamp cable. This didn't seem to do much, but the old one had some wear and tear.  

With all that, everything is working well now, and I don't think it's going to get a whole lot better without spending a lot more money, and even then I wonder if that would really be cost effective.

Thanks to everyone that responded.
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Re: TORI MK II w/ MG44 spkrs, vol prob w/phono input
Reply #13 - 11/01/09 at 11:38:18
 
Great news.  [smiley=13.gif]

dennis
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