Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Decware Audio Forums
09/22/14 at 03:27:22


Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
Speaker Cables with SE84 Amps?? (Read 3493 times)
sebrof
Verified Member
**




Posts: 10
Speaker Cables with SE84 Amps??
06/22/09 at 19:31:34
 
Hello,

Any suggestions for speaker cables to use with the low power EL84 amps. I assume this question would apply to all of them.
My amp is the Zkit1 with Klipschorn speakers. I was using Speltz anti cables (magnet wire) with good results on my previous speakers, big tube amp. A local dealer said keep it simple with horns and low power SET / SEP amps, so I put in some generic Radio Shack speaker cables. Haven't had a chance to compare although I will in the next few days.

Thanks - Mike
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 7527
Re: Speaker Cables with SE84 Amps??
Reply #1 - 06/22/09 at 20:26:23
 
I found Cat-6 wire, single strand, to be quite nice with my Select much of the time I had the Select.

If you can afford it (and i think I know the answer to that!) Steve's "Zen Styx" are the best speaker cables I've ever heard. Fantastic!
Back to top
 
 

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
  IP Logged
Alan H
Senior Member
***




Posts: 63
Re: Speaker Cables with SE84 Amps??
Reply #2 - 07/13/09 at 08:40:06
 
Sebrof, I also have a ZKit1 and horns. Just prior to building the kit I bought a 50m spool of 0.5mm annealed 99.99% silver wire (50ukp) and teflon tubing (another 50ukp). It was a couple of evenings work, and you need a steady hand in a surgical glove, but after poking the wire into 4m lengths of the tubing and braiding to 6 strands per wire (3 out 3 in) I had two 4m cables. Silver bananas added using Silver solder, and my Horns are internally wired with 1mm silver in Teflon.

I previously used JPS Labs Ultraconductors (Alumiloy and fairly well reviewed), before that braided CAT5, enamelled magnet wire, Nordost Flatline Gold, Kimber something ... Bottom line is the braided silver is exquisitely detailed, clear grain-free highs, musical, has lovely and very extended bass, is an all round improvement on the JPS Labs, and better than everything else I have tried.

I found magnet wire slightly rolled off at both ends, otherwise OK; braided CAT5 a hint of smeared throughout, Nordost Flatline Gold had a weird tuneless mid-bass and a very 2d presentation, JPS Labs generally OK at everything but always sounded like there was more to come.

My budget, DIY recommendation. Personally it puts that cable thing finally to rest.
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 07/13/09 at 08:50:16 by Alan H »  

FLAC via Ethernet-over-Mains
Squeezebox 3
Valab 6N Solid Silver Coax
GD-Audio DAC19 DSP
Decware SE84DIY (V-Caps + CCE mod)
Solid silver / teflon cables
Scotmoose Sachiko FE206En Horns
WWW   IP Logged
proud_indian
Seasoned Member
****


I love YaBB 1G -
SP1!

Posts: 195
Re: Speaker Cables with SE84 Amps??
Reply #3 - 07/13/09 at 14:48:55
 
I use silver foils, which a silver smith makes it for me (hand drawn). He just charges the cost of silver ++, so it is pretty affordable. Once, I got on to this, I have not tried anything else.


shreekant Smiley
Back to top
 
 

84C, ZBox, Ex mod, Zkit4&5.1, Vcap, CCE, Lowthers, CD200, Power iso and other stuff
WWW   IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 7527
Re: Speaker Cables with SE84 Amps??
Reply #4 - 07/13/09 at 18:24:41
 
Silver seems to be a big part of the magic.

After I bought the Decware Zen Styx, I stopped even thinking about speaker cables, takes some time to settle in but then. . . wow.
Back to top
 
 

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
  IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 2402
Re: Speaker Cables with SE84 Amps??
Reply #5 - 07/13/09 at 21:28:40
 
Silver is a wonderful conductor.   What makes ZenStyx so good to us, is that it is almost impossible to hear the wire.  Very transparent, very honest.  That's what you want with purist tube gear, to hear everything.  In the main stream hi-fi world, despite what they tell you, it is the subtle art of masking or manipulating the signal to sound better that makes super high dollar cables cost what they do (well other than markup).  When these are listened to on a purist tube amp, they always sound veiled.  When a good cable, like styx, is used on a main stream hi-fi amp, it makes the amp sound worse by letting you hear what it actually sounds like.

In a purist world the best wire is no wire at all, and this is as close as I've found.

Steve
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 07/13/09 at 21:32:02 by Steve Deckert »  
WWW   IP Logged
jags79
Verified Member
**




Posts: 9
Re: Speaker Cables with SE84 Amps??
Reply #6 - 07/22/09 at 16:33:07
 
I am currently using a single strand of 30 awg bare solid core silver wire.  It sounds terrific.  Plenty of bass.  Surprisingly it seems to have more bass than thicker wire.  The Zen Styx seems way to fat.  I think because the Select is sending minimal current through the wire that you can get away with ridiculously thin wire and it sounds better. Less skin effect and with bare wire there's no dialectric absorption.  No smearing of the music whatsoever.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Homey
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 119
Re: Speaker Cables with SE84 Amps??
Reply #7 - 07/22/09 at 17:12:13
 
Bare wire huh?
I have thought about trying this,  But it must be a
little sketchy trying to keep them seperated at all times.
I dont own the Zen,  so My amp does not drive a dead Short.
I wonder how true that is,  about the Zen.
Will the internal fuse blow if the speaker wires touch, or will it
just keep on going.
Back to top
 
 

Turntable: Highly Modified VPI TNT-VHR, Schroder ll Arm, Musicmaker 3
Phono Decware ZP2.0 (tricked out by OBI-V)
DAC: www.lessloss.com
Amps: Decware SE34I, First Watt F1
Preamp: Modwright 9.0SE
www.thehornshoppe.com (2 pair)
Decware WO32 Sub
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 7527
Re: Speaker Cables with SE84 Amps??
Reply #8 - 07/22/09 at 17:41:55
 
Jags, I used to run single strand Cat-6 wire with my Select and Monoblocks. . . and I agree that they're a great match. I also used Tara Labs solid core wire that was not really fat and had little insulation. Sounded quite nice with the Decware amps.

I won't deny that the ZenStyx are fat, that's plain and apparent! But they don't sound like "fat wire."  They outperform all other wires that I have used.  As Steve notes correctly, they just sort of make you stop thinking of wire, you get what the amps put out.  I was actually skeptical for a while before buying them. . . I thought I loved copper more than silver, but this silver plated wire and the geometry has what it takes.
Back to top
 
 

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
  IP Logged
jags79
Verified Member
**




Posts: 9
Re: Speaker Cables with SE84 Amps??
Reply #9 - 07/22/09 at 19:20:00
 
Homey, I've had bare wire touch on my Select before and nothing happened.  I think the music suffered a little but that was all.  Of course I take care that it doesn't touch. That was when it occurred to me that maybe really thin bare wire would be OK with the Select and one could get the benefit of thin round wire without losing too much bass.  Pierre Sprey has said that the thinner a wire gets the better it sounds, but that with round speaker wire bass will start rolling off at 18 awg.    I think he is correct to say that the thinner a wire gets the better it sounds.  I simply hear more detail and the drums seem to pound like drums.  Lon, I am sure those ZenStyx do sound wonderful and maybe they are just the ticket with a Select.  I should add that the return speaker wire on my Select is bare 24awg. but the poitive is 30awg.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Homey
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 119
Re: Speaker Cables with SE84 Amps??
Reply #10 - 07/23/09 at 02:23:57
 
To tell the truth I have not done much Speaker cable
experimentation.  I only own a pair of Mapleshade speaker cables
(the double helix) & they look like they are about
20 guage.  

I may have to try some other cables (maybe even the Styx)
Because the highs on my system just dont sound right.
Bass & Midrange are very good,  But the Highs
are terrible especially on Cymbyls.  and some female vocals.

I have played around with everything but the speaker cables,
& still having issues.

what ever cables I get,  They are not going to be high dollar.
well $250.00 max.   Zen Styx fits in for sure.
those Speltz anti cables have been getting lots of attention
on the discussion forums & They too are
priced on the sane side,  But They look alot like the Mapleshades
I have now,  So may very well pick up
some Styx since they are competely different being a fat, & stranded
as opposed to being Thin & solid.

I would have to believe that the zenStyx are probably pretty damn
good just for the fact that Steve says He has been using this wire
for something like 10 years,  & It has slayed the big boys in His
tests.
Back to top
 
 

Turntable: Highly Modified VPI TNT-VHR, Schroder ll Arm, Musicmaker 3
Phono Decware ZP2.0 (tricked out by OBI-V)
DAC: www.lessloss.com
Amps: Decware SE34I, First Watt F1
Preamp: Modwright 9.0SE
www.thehornshoppe.com (2 pair)
Decware WO32 Sub
  IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 2402
Re: Speaker Cables with SE84 Amps??
Reply #11 - 07/23/09 at 17:05:44
 
Actually I've been using them for closer to 20 years, and still have yet to have anything come along and sound better.  Friends and customers bring high dollar cables over frequently and the Styx always win.  If the top end problem is in fact your cables, this will fix it.  If however the high end problem is your source, then these cables will make it even more noticeable.

Steve
Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
ski bum
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 177
Re: Speaker Cables with SE84 Amps??
Reply #12 - 07/24/09 at 02:48:22
 
Wow, am I out of the loop.  Hmm.  Oh, well.  My somewhat inefficient speakers may not be revealing enough to hear any differences, and I'm a skeptic regarding the advantages of expensive wire.  Just don't flame me.

My speaker wire consists of ~12', 12g silver plated copper; it cost just a few cents/foot and came from a large spool at the local electical supply wholesaler.  All said and done, I think I spent about 15 bucks.  This wire is typically sold to mobile-audio retailers/installers for subwoofers.  These leads don't seem to add or subtract anything from the sound and perform as simple wires should.  I'm also using ~6" pieces of the 10g as jumpers for the monoblocked zens.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Stone Deaf
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 172
Re: Speaker Cables with SE84 Amps??
Reply #13 - 08/01/09 at 00:02:42
 
Maybe Steve can answer this. Would it harm the sound of bare wire if it was sprayed or dipped in some insulating lacquer like used on armature windings of an electric motor or transformer?
Back to top
 
 

My system: Decware Taboo, CSP2, ZP3, Pro-Ject RM 10 / Grado Reference Sonata, Adcom 700, ERR Radials, Lots of Mapleshade, Kimber and Herbie's stuff.
  IP Logged
Doorman
Seasoned Member
****


"pouring from
the empty into the
void"

Posts: 423
Re: Speaker Cables with SE84 Amps??
Reply #14 - 08/01/09 at 03:33:33
 
Why not try it, and report back?
Don
Back to top
 
 

Decware SE34I w/ CCE mod, ZCD, Heybrook/Linn/Clearaudio, Hagerman,
Goertz/Wireworld/cat-5/MarkAudio Alpair 10.2 drivers
(eN) in DIY Mar-Ken cabs
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print