Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Decware Audio Forums
04/16/14 at 17:26:00


Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6
Send Topic Print
The Christmas comes early mod! (Read 50995 times)
d_zoolander
Verified Member
**




Posts: 12
Re: The Christmas comes early mod!
Reply #30 - 06/16/09 at 04:25:49
 



This is the pin out for SV83

The capacitor connects pins 6 and 3. To get a 'reference', trace which pin connects to the B+ inside the amp (In SE84C/S this should be pin 7). Pin 9 is also connected to B+ via 1K resistor.
Back to top
 
 

Modded Squeezebox , Monica 3 DAC, Burson Buffer, CSP, Taboo, MG944, Tripp Lite Isolation xfrmrs, Signal Cable ICs
  IP Logged
michkhol
Verified Member
**




Posts: 26
Re: The Christmas comes early mod!
Reply #31 - 06/22/09 at 04:57:06
 
I have a SE34I.2 with stock rectifiers, Russian Mullard el34 and 6N23P drivers. The speakers used were Decware HDT.
I decided to measure the transfer function for power and phase before and after the mod. The signal was taken directly from the output transformer in parallel with the speakers. Only the left channel is shown.

The first graph is for the switch in the position "less bass". Yellow is before the mod, cyan is after.




The second graph is for the switch in the position "more bass". Pink is before the mod, green is after.




Note: the pictures represent the difference between the control and test signals, the absolute value has no meaning here. Only deviation from the straight line matters.
The listening experience in general confirms the visual representation. The sound stage became more up-front, did not notice much difference in clarity.
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 06/23/09 at 04:56:56 by michkhol »  
  IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 2328
Re: The Christmas comes early mod!
Reply #32 - 06/22/09 at 20:31:04
 
The SE34I.2 has a 1K~2W resistor between pin 3 (plate) and pin 1 (grid).  This resistor must be removed before doing the Christmas comes early mod.

- Steve
Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
michkhol
Verified Member
**




Posts: 26
Re: The Christmas comes early mod!
Reply #33 - 06/23/09 at 05:10:14
 
Steve,

the graphs have been updated. I see almost no static difference before and after the mod. However for both cases the instantaneous dispersion of the transfer function for power and phase was quite substantial (up to 10dB and 240 degrees) during listening especially in the bass region (below 250 Hz). I cannot however imagine how it can contribute to more or less clarity and true dynamics.

Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 06/23/09 at 16:09:53 by Steve Deckert »  
  IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 2328
Re: The Christmas comes early mod!
Reply #34 - 06/23/09 at 16:10:49
 
Sorry, hit the wrong button.  I didn't really modify your post.

I see the graphs have been changed.  Can I assume then that on the original post the 1K 2W resistor was still in place?

Also not sure exactly what you're trying to say with "instantaneous dispersion" or where you get 10dB and 240 degrees?

True dynamics has nothing to do with the amount of voltage swing in the context I wrote it - but rather how clean the dynamics are rendered.

I would be curious more about what you hear vs. imagine is possible.  Are you hearing any change?

Steve
Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
michkhol
Verified Member
**




Posts: 26
Re: The Christmas comes early mod!
Reply #35 - 06/23/09 at 19:26:33
 
No worries, I just mean that I updated the graphs after I removed the resistor. The original graphs were done with the resistor in place.

Instantaneous dispersion is what I see on the live graph when I disable averaging. Both graphs are stable from about 250Hz and up; and below that frequency I can see substantial instantaneous swings both in power (up to 10dB) and phase (up to 240 degrees). The character of those swings might change the perceived spatial information and dynamics rendering(?).

I can hear changes in the sound stage, it became more up-front. In an orchestral recording I did myself the instruments stick out more than I remember in the live feed.

When I have time I will probably measure the amplifier loaded with a resistor instead of the speaker to see if there are any differences. With the HDT load it is only a 40-20000Hz (+-3dB) amplifier with a big phase distortion below 250Hz.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 6762
Re: The Christmas comes early mod!
Reply #36 - 06/23/09 at 21:27:20
 
Okay, just a suggestion. . . but it may be a good thing to add news about the CCE Mod to the "What's New" page and the blog. . . .

Probably wouldn't hurt to do the same about the Treble Dampening Circuit option for the amps, and the Torii Mark II sale.

Also, if you're going to answer questions about the Torii Mark II sale in that thread. . . you may want to unlock it so that others can create posts?
Back to top
 
 

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+(2),Torii Mk III, PS Audio PWT+PWD MkII,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable IC: Evo and UL, Mapleshade:Double Heiix Samsonv2+v3 and 4"platforms,Herbie's IsoCups+Tendft
  IP Logged
Young_SC
Seasoned Member
****


I love Decware 1G -
SP1!

Posts: 111
Re: The Christmas comes early mod!
Reply #37 - 07/08/09 at 05:25:14
 
I soldered in the caps last night and can confirm that I perceived an improvement.

My reference cartridge (only a Denon 103 but it kills my Ortofon 2M Red) is being repaired, so I resorted to CD and the alternate cartridge.

Since getting into vinyl, I don't listen to as much CD, but the mod has made that more pleasurable, at least in the 2 hour post upgrade listening session.

Simon
Back to top
 
 

Marantz CD 63KI (modded)
Monica 2 DAC with I/V output stage
ZBox
Decware SE84CEX
Homebuilt HDT's with doughnuts
Enamelled copper wire IC's with Eichmann plugs
Enamelled copper wire speaker cables
Young_SC   IP Logged
SoundBound
Verified Member
**




Posts: 16
Re: The Christmas comes early mod!
Reply #38 - 07/14/09 at 14:21:34
 
Steve recommends a polyester cap for this upgrade/mod, I have some russian Ft-3  Teflon 0.1uF caps left over, what about using the teflons?

I would hazard to guess that it makes no difference, but if it really should be a polyester cap I would like to know.  (the one drawback I can see about the FT-3s are their physical size).
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
veryoldcat
Seasoned Member
****


dam*ed if you do,
and dam*ed if you
don't

Posts: 372
Re: The Christmas comes early mod!
Reply #39 - 07/15/09 at 03:57:12
 
I've used metallized polyprop caps in both my SE84CS and also my old refurbed ST70 (because that's what I had).  I used a couple of old "wonder caps" in the SE84CS, and inexpensive xicons in the '70.

The results of this mod, or tweak, is nothing short of astonishing, in my mind. My Select (SE84CS) sounds incredible, as if it had far more power and oomph than before. The whole musicality spectrum went through the roof compared to any other mod or tweek I've experienced. No other tube swapping or signal cap upgrades, et al, had anywhere near the benefit.

The results with my old (but refurbed) Stereo 70 were similarly astounding, as the same mod is possible given EL34 tubes.

I'd personally save the Rusky pio's for another project, and get a couple xicon .1uf's as they're only around a $1 apiece and are relatively small and easy to fit in.

One disadvantage to the Rusky pio's and their large size is this; you'll need to be bending the leads around to situate them, and  those thin brittle steel leads can break off as you massage them to fit in place.

Karl

ps- I'll add that the suppressor grid and cathode were already directly hard-wired on my old Stereo 70, and the difference between this and the "CCE" mod was nothing short of astonishing!

Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 07/15/09 at 04:46:03 by veryoldcat »  

SE84CS (vcapped), CSP, zbox, Dec685, ZP 1.0, Sota tt/Well-Tempered Arm/V15XMR, Parker 98's, Parker Audio *Power Chords*, cat 6 wires, OSX; a garage sale of other stuff...
  IP Logged
dank
Seasoned Member
****


pair of dual 18
Imperials

Posts: 265
Re: The Christmas comes early mod!
Reply #40 - 07/15/09 at 16:36:05
 
veryoldcat

Are you saying that on your ST70 the suppressor grid was wired to the cathode, you removed that wire, put a 0.1 uf cap in its place, and noticed a substantial improvement in the sound?  Just want to be sure I understand.

Dan
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
veryoldcat
Seasoned Member
****


dam*ed if you do,
and dam*ed if you
don't

Posts: 372
Re: The Christmas comes early mod!
Reply #41 - 07/15/09 at 18:17:33
 
Yes, Dan, and the improvement was very dramatic...

Karl
Back to top
 
 

SE84CS (vcapped), CSP, zbox, Dec685, ZP 1.0, Sota tt/Well-Tempered Arm/V15XMR, Parker 98's, Parker Audio *Power Chords*, cat 6 wires, OSX; a garage sale of other stuff...
  IP Logged
Hasafraker
Verified Member
**




Posts: 38
Re: The Christmas comes early mod!
Reply #42 - 07/16/09 at 19:34:53
 
for us DIY'ers is this mod listed anywhere step by step whats needed to impliment? I originally thought it was just a cap between pins 3 and 6, today I read a post from Steve that some of the boards used in the zkit1 will need a trace cut and some won't. I don't want to ruin my amp, I don't like the idea of cutting traces on the board as I recall the board is of very good quality, and it's thick with good traces. Is there a way to tell by looking at our board and know if there is extra work to be done? I did a search of the forums and can't find any sort of walk through or list of changes required etc. If anybody with a zkit1 has done this could you please confirm steps needed to complete the mod.

much appreciated!
Back to top
 
 

pwells~

SE84DIY w/cce mod, ZSP1, VSPS DIY phono stage w/separate psu, Sansui SR-525 Turntable, Nagaoka MP-100 mm cart, Tekton Design 8.1's 97db@1w, all cables and interconnects DIY. Now we're cookin Wink
WWW hasafraker hasafraker   IP Logged
veryoldcat
Seasoned Member
****


dam*ed if you do,
and dam*ed if you
don't

Posts: 372
Re: The Christmas comes early mod!
Reply #43 - 07/16/09 at 21:54:27
 
If you can, look under the board and determine where pin 3 and pin 6 of the op tubes are, and then look to see if there is a trace connecting those pins. If there IS a trace connecting them, then that is the trace to be broken.

It's as though there were a wire connecting pin 3 and pin 6 (but here the wire is replaced by the trace) and you wanted to replace that wire with this little .1uf capacitor.

If there is NO trace connecting these pins, then you're free to just solder the cap between pin 3 and pin 6 with no other considerations.

Hope this helps...

Karl
Back to top
 
 

SE84CS (vcapped), CSP, zbox, Dec685, ZP 1.0, Sota tt/Well-Tempered Arm/V15XMR, Parker 98's, Parker Audio *Power Chords*, cat 6 wires, OSX; a garage sale of other stuff...
  IP Logged
Hasafraker
Verified Member
**




Posts: 38
Re: The Christmas comes early mod!
Reply #44 - 07/17/09 at 01:50:29
 
you're the man Karl thank you Smiley

ok we might wanna think about moving this to it's own thread, but, I have board Rev 7 2009, the trace appears to be under the tube socket, and getting the board out of my chassis is not something I even want to think about let alone removing my sockets. I managed to backlight the board and it looks like the trace is a 90 angle from pin 6 to just below the silk screen 3 for pin 3 with a little leg to pin 3. Could I drill through the board right where the 3 is silk screened and cut the trace that way? This won't hurt anything else will it? I'm thinking Steve is going to have to answer this.
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 07/17/09 at 02:48:23 by Hasafraker »  

pwells~

SE84DIY w/cce mod, ZSP1, VSPS DIY phono stage w/separate psu, Sansui SR-525 Turntable, Nagaoka MP-100 mm cart, Tekton Design 8.1's 97db@1w, all cables and interconnects DIY. Now we're cookin Wink
WWW hasafraker hasafraker   IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6
Send Topic Print