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Mini Torii SE Amplifier (Read 58104 times)
Les Lammers
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #300 - 04/16/12 at 22:11:05
 
Radushka,

Were you a surgeon in another life?  :)
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« Last Edit: 04/16/12 at 22:12:44 by Les Lammers »  
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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #301 - 04/16/12 at 22:18:20
 
we only have two lives: the second one begins when we realize that we only have one Smiley

Confucius?
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Les Lammers
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #302 - 04/16/12 at 22:39:41
 
Confucious? Na....I Confused.  :)
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« Last Edit: 04/16/12 at 22:40:03 by Les Lammers »  
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erik2a3
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #303 - 04/16/12 at 23:48:32
 
This is going to be brief as I can make it: the capacitor that comes immediately off the high voltage (B+) output of any valve rectifier is often called the capacitor input to filter cap.  Different tube rectifiers have differing values of capacitance for which they are designed to be used.  Exceeding that value by a considerable margin can increase the chance of possible (but not necessarily certain) rectifier failure.  Of course the EZ81 can be used with a 10uf film cap.  However, the lower value will also result in some reduction of plate voltage.  If you adapt the circuit for the Ez81, however, there is no need to change the 47uf that's in there right now.  In many such power supplies there will be a filter choke after this first capacitor, and then another capacitor after that -- the value of which can be much larger than the input filter cap.  There are also power supplies that use a choke as the input to the power supply ripple filter. Which offer both better regulation as well as less concern about the value of capacitance after being damaging to the rectifier.  The 47uf has and will most likely continue to work okay, but...one can't say for sure that it's longevity might be less than with something more in the range of what is listed in data sheets for the tube.  I tend to play this moremon the safe side just because I have had problems with it in the past.

Allow me to say that I can completely change the internal components and overall voicing of this little amplifier.  My situation is that I have done SO MUCH modifying, rebuilding, using piles of different wire for hookup, IC, and speaker, that I just have no interest in it any more -- mostly because for me the overall circuit design is paramount, and even more because the Mini Torii sounds pretty awesome as is. I have three other amplifiers I'm working on right now because they require it.  What is so refreshing about the MT is that, just in my view and for my needs right now, it's always  there, just as it is, and sounding splendid. Little bit of tube rolling has been neat and yeilded some changes that put it in even better company with the stuff it's used with, both music and hardware.

And Raduscha!  I am glad you're enjoying the effort to make this even more your own amplifier.  That's what this is about! Cheesy  May I ask why you're soldering both leads of that twinaxial cable to the VC inputs?  You do have the sheild connected to ground on the other end of the cable, don't you?
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« Last Edit: 04/17/12 at 01:07:11 by erik2a3 »  

Have fun!
erik
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Les Lammers
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #304 - 04/17/12 at 00:12:06
 
Erik,

Those are certainly words of wisdom! I was going to change the caps
in the amp but I think I will give it 500 hours or so and then think about it.

Les
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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #305 - 04/17/12 at 01:32:30
 
Erik, that is an old photo of the stock pots.
I just ordered 2 solen 10uf 630V caps.

I am glad I waited over a year to start modifying anything in my MT. That way i got familiar with its potential as is.
Improvement only makes sense if there is something to improve upon.  I say improvement because, while other parameters have simply changed, which is a matter of taste, others have improved, such as detail and bass coherence. That builds upon the mT's initial capabilities.
I am also slowly losing interest in hoisting the amp daily to the operating room/kitchen table. Especially since it sounds so good these days. Now I can only improve upon my mind. Change the value of its resistance and rewire a few things... Tighten a few screws...
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Fireblade
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #306 - 04/17/12 at 02:57:42
 
Talking abut loose screws, I was loosing it for the long wait.  But guess what, guys:  

On Bench - Means your order is now being built.   Yippiiii!!!!!   Cheesy  (speakers have been ready for a while now).    YES!!
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Toshiba-Foobar2K-ASIO Direct-WD 2.0Tb HDD-Schiit USB cable-Schiit Yggdrasil DAC-Decware Silver Ref IC's-Decware Mini Torii SE-8PR Kimber Kable spkr cbls-Decware DM945's-Tekton Lore 2-Velodyne DLS 3500 SUB-BJC SUB Cbls-Tripp Lite 500 Isolation Trnsf-Jellyfish S
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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #307 - 04/17/12 at 03:00:57
 
Happy for you Fireblade!

what speakers are those again?
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Fireblade
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #308 - 04/17/12 at 04:07:05
 
Those are the 'small ones with a BIG sound': DM945's (4 Ohms version).  Thing is, I could not fit anything larger in my listening area without the wife complaining about decor issues ...  :-[   Thanks for asking.
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« Last Edit: 04/17/12 at 04:09:28 by Fireblade »  

Toshiba-Foobar2K-ASIO Direct-WD 2.0Tb HDD-Schiit USB cable-Schiit Yggdrasil DAC-Decware Silver Ref IC's-Decware Mini Torii SE-8PR Kimber Kable spkr cbls-Decware DM945's-Tekton Lore 2-Velodyne DLS 3500 SUB-BJC SUB Cbls-Tripp Lite 500 Isolation Trnsf-Jellyfish S
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erik2a3
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #309 - 04/17/12 at 11:32:01
 
Raduscha:  ah, that makes sense.  A case of my misreading, always being in a rush, that sort of thing.  I was wondering why the old pots were in there with what I thought you were sharing in the way of new signal wire.  Speaking of which, since you are experimenting, one can sometimes obtain good performance with a twisted pair of fine wire for signal and ground from the input jack.  Twisting AC leads, which you can see in the amplifier for the filaments, primary, secondary, and grounded high voltage and filament winding center taps help prevent emission of stray hum from AC, where twisting signal and ground leads as mentioned above helps give a bit of immunity to the picking up RFI/EMI since one of the wires used is grounded, just as the shield is grounded in common coaxial cable. There is just so little current in low, line level signals that heavier wire isn't needed.  I'm actually wondering now if I should have even mentioned this!  I think maybe the time might be near for just allowing that little patient to reover and return to work, though I do see that Solen is donating a couple of new capacitors intended for transplant.  Good choice! They are IMO and IME veryngood for the price, and perfectly suited for this application.  Glad you went for the 630V version too.  If you are handy with a multi meter, I would check before and after anode voltages.  A mild drop will not do any harm.  You want to keep things within a certain tolerance, but 10uf is still high enough, I think, to keep you in the ball park.  Please allow me to urge CAUTION! You are working with an energized circuit and need to be sure of what you are doing.  I wouldn't even suggest this, though you have checked DC voltages, as you said, in the past.  The difference here is that the amp is on and thus creates a potentially lethal shock hazard.  If you are even a little bit hesistant, please just make the capacitor change and leave it, or have someone who is familiar with high voltage circuits to check it for you.  Apologies, and please understand I am not questioning your competence, Raduscha.  I just want to confirm a statement is made about this dangerous aspect of audio DIYing.  Use the clip of your volt meter for the ground connection, and take the B+ readings with the other probe using only one hand. Put your other hand in your pocket.  Make sure the storage charge from the capacitor you are removing has bled off before handling it.  Have fun and maintain a healthy respect for electricity Wink
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Have fun!
erik
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erik2a3
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #310 - 04/17/12 at 11:59:06
 
And FWIW: this cap input filter modificationmay indeed turn out to be more than just a rectifier suitability change.  Film capacitors in this position are often believed to result in some sonic improvement over an electrolytic.  There are other capacitor types commonly for this purpose, but lets just leave as is right now.  I'm just adding to what I wrote above to say that you might find you like what you hear as a result of the swap.  I hope you have had a nice visit with your family!
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erik
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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #311 - 04/17/12 at 15:34:48
 
Erik I understand perfectly your words of caution. You could even explain to me how to tighten a nut and I wouldn't feel offended. I think you still refer back to when I answered your question regarding wiring volume pots Smiley Believe me Erik, just a few weeks back I was looking that up on Google, to learn how to wire volume pots. It is a natural process and I display a certain degree of 'beginner mind' Smiley Plus I think you assess my skill level fairly well and do not have a patronizing attitude at all. QUite the opposite. There's a compliment for you!
The hardest part would be to have the MT plugged in and open at the same time, since the heavy transformers don't make for an equilibristic setup. I could place it squarely on its head and use a cheap flexible computer power cable instead of the stiff ones I have.

Fireblade, I built a pair of small floorstanders based on a Fostex 4 or 5 inch driver and, with the speakers being so small, the music was simply floating in the air with no apparent source and going back 5 meters into the room. The resolution was not so great though compared to the AN and I had botched up the ports so the bass was inconsistent. I am looking forward to reading your impressions of the dm945 with the MT.
I know someone who had small bookshelf speakers (like you will) who told me that the soundstage was so much bigger than his listening room that when he opened his eyes he felt like vomiting! (That's cause his brain couldn't compute the spatial clues).
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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #312 - 04/17/12 at 15:48:03
 
and on the same topic:

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.”
― Confucius
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Les Lammers
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #313 - 04/17/12 at 16:31:24
 
I saw my Shrink yesterday and my Audio Nervosa is under control. Got meds, blue M&M's, and I have to recite 'I will resist changing anything until the amp has a lot of hours on it.'
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Fireblade
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #314 - 04/17/12 at 16:33:23
 
Radu,

To me, wisdom is realizing and accepting we'll never know much at all!  I have over 30 years of a varied professional experience, having lived in several very different cultures, and these days I find myself always asking and considering everyone's opinions, about most issues.

Regarding the speakers, I have high expectations from this design.  If you look at the specs, they carry 8" woofers and planar ribbons for the higher frequencies.  In contrast, my current setup consists of JVC wooden baffles & cones 4.2" woofers and 1" wooden baffle & cones tweeters.  They look great and sound ok, but there's going to be a huge difference with the DM945's, also because the sensitivity of the JVC's is just 82 dBs and they are physically very small.  I currently use a Velodyne Sub-Woofer to compensate for the lacking lower bass.

The JVC's don't separate the different frequencies very well either, making complex music passages kind of muddled.  Soundstage is really limited, without width or depth.  Midrange and upper frequencies sound good, and wind and string instruments have nice tone and timbre, although transients (cimballs, drum plates, etc.) sound really mediocre.

Then there's the amps difference.  I'm not qualified to judge these on a technical level, but I'm sure my current (4 amplification stages for a Bi-amping/Bi-frequencies design) SS integrated is not at the audiophile level (it's hard to tell where the speakers limitations end and where the amp's limitations start though).

I'll let you all know how it works out.
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« Last Edit: 04/17/12 at 16:36:17 by Fireblade »  

Toshiba-Foobar2K-ASIO Direct-WD 2.0Tb HDD-Schiit USB cable-Schiit Yggdrasil DAC-Decware Silver Ref IC's-Decware Mini Torii SE-8PR Kimber Kable spkr cbls-Decware DM945's-Tekton Lore 2-Velodyne DLS 3500 SUB-BJC SUB Cbls-Tripp Lite 500 Isolation Trnsf-Jellyfish S
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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier, in the background...
Reply #315 - 05/20/12 at 19:51:55
 

_MG_7789 par raduschkamuschka, sur Flickr
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Rivieraranch
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #316 - 05/20/12 at 23:14:46
 
What the Sam Hill is that, Rad? Hook your Mini Torii back up immediately!
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TORII MK IV; ZSTAGE; HR-1 SPEAKERS; TECHNICS SL1200MK5 KAB MODDED TT; AH! NJOE TJOEB CDP; MARANTZ 2226B; SENNHEISER HD-580 headphones
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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #317 - 05/21/12 at 05:37:14
 
it's a traveller's tube-amp:-)

se84C
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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #318 - 05/31/12 at 03:50:40
 

_MG_7997 par raduschkamuschka, sur Flickr


_MG_7992 par raduschkamuschka, sur Flickr


_MG_7990 par raduschkamuschka, sur Flickr


_MG_7988 par raduschkamuschka, sur Flickr

no, not photoshopped !
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« Last Edit: 05/31/12 at 03:51:35 by Raduschka »  

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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #319 - 05/31/12 at 03:55:53
 
...by the way the isolation transformer serves only as extra weight for the cd transport.
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HPDJ
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #320 - 05/31/12 at 05:06:32
 
Woah, what in the world is going on in those photos haha! Very cool looking Smiley

So, your not actually using the tripplite? I was going to ask how you liked it Smiley

And what in the world is that base on your MT? Sorry is you've explained this already..

Last question, what power cord are you using?
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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #321 - 05/31/12 at 13:13:28
 
what's going on is that I didn't have enough room for 8 solen film caps. Now I do.
The trip lite doesn't do anything for me, I replaced it with a ps duet power bar, which makes a real difference for around 200$.
The power cords are diy VH audio. Chris VenHaus sells a bunch of interesting cables and you can find the diy recipes right on the website.
Talk to you later!
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Lon
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #322 - 05/31/12 at 14:32:04
 
Yes Rad, your comment a while back that you thought the Tripplites were imparting an etch signature to the sound made me compare and contrast (I was using the Tripplites before the PS Audio Duets) and I came to agree with you about that and removed the Tripplitss from the main system. As I began to work on the second system and increase its fidelity, I found that they were also not helping me there and now they reside on a closet shelf. Smiley  I trust your ears my friend.
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HR-1,ZP3,ZTPRE,Torii MkIII,ZBIT,ZROCK2,Taboo MkIV;PS Audio:Soloist SE,DMP+DSD,P10,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs,Mapleshade:Dbl Helix+,SamsonV2+V3;CambrAudi CXU;Rega RP3,TTPSU,Groovetracer upgrades,Exact2;VooDoo Cremona +Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner,Oppo PM-1,Audeze LCD-2
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Lon
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #323 - 05/31/12 at 14:39:32
 
HPDJ wrote on 05/31/12 at 05:06:32:
And what in the world is that base on your MT? Sorry is you've explained this already..


That "base" is an Audio Note component, a DAC I think. Smiley
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HR-1,ZP3,ZTPRE,Torii MkIII,ZBIT,ZROCK2,Taboo MkIV;PS Audio:Soloist SE,DMP+DSD,P10,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs,Mapleshade:Dbl Helix+,SamsonV2+V3;CambrAudi CXU;Rega RP3,TTPSU,Groovetracer upgrades,Exact2;VooDoo Cremona +Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner,Oppo PM-1,Audeze LCD-2
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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #324 - 05/31/12 at 17:21:12
 
oh, I thought by 'base'  he meant the new base on my MT, which is  much deeper than the original one ( to host 6 huge 47uf caps and 2 smaller 10uf). originally there were 8 small electrolytic caps in the power section.

The other base is an AudioNote kit DAC (the 2.1).
I forgot who suggested the ps duet to me, was it you Lon or was it Rivieraranch...... I can't remember. But thank you!
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Lon
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #325 - 05/31/12 at 17:45:44
 
I think it was me Rad. You're welcome.

You're right, he probably meant the wooden base which I didn't glom to be different.

Happy listening!
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HR-1,ZP3,ZTPRE,Torii MkIII,ZBIT,ZROCK2,Taboo MkIV;PS Audio:Soloist SE,DMP+DSD,P10,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs,Mapleshade:Dbl Helix+,SamsonV2+V3;CambrAudi CXU;Rega RP3,TTPSU,Groovetracer upgrades,Exact2;VooDoo Cremona +Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner,Oppo PM-1,Audeze LCD-2
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orangecrush
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #326 - 05/31/12 at 19:03:34
 
Are those audio note gold plated knobs?

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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #327 - 05/31/12 at 19:04:55
 
yes they are! From partsconnexion
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orangecrush
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #328 - 05/31/12 at 19:45:45
 
I have one for my Torii but gave up trying to get it to not look lop sided when tightened up with the set screw. I wish they a push on pressure fit which works best with the split shaft on the Torii. I don't the bottom to rest on the plate as it will eventually mar it up. Any suggestions?
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HPDJ
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #329 - 05/31/12 at 21:00:52
 
Hey Lon and Rad,

I was indeed referring to the "base" of the MT in my post earlier, but thanks for mentioning what the DAC is....I had to zoom in until I could faintly make out "DAC" on the front panel before I knew what kind of component it actually is. But I still didn't know what model/brand it was Smiley
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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #330 - 05/31/12 at 23:16:35
 
the original volume pots on the MT had a solid core shaft. They are made by Alpha. The atts I am using (khozmo, I do not recommend, they are a lottery and the person selling them in Poland is unreachable) also have a solid core shaft so no problem there. Maybe you can tighten them just above the surface of the aluminum cover? Or cut out a round piece of plexiglas or paper and place that underneath the knobs?
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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #331 - 06/01/12 at 04:42:07
 
after replacing the original 47uf electrolytic caps with huge 650V Solen pps caps (except for the 6x4 caps which are 10uf, thanks Erik!) I now have excellent dynamics and depth, BUT also a slight hum, which is a pity, since the MT used to be dead silent. Can anyone please help me understand which of the 47 uf caps in the power section is most likely to cause hum? I could perhaps swap those for a different brand, or a different type (back to electrolytic...). But most of all I would like to understand why switching to film caps has brought about better dynamics and the hum. Especially the hum Smiley  Thank you in advance for any input
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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #332 - 06/01/12 at 16:17:14
 
I received following email from PartsConnexion's tech:

Hi Radu,

Try reversing the Solens one by one. It may be the outer foil is picking up ripple from the raw supply.

Do this one by one as Solen does not mark the outer capacitor foil.

--------------------
I placed them all with the writing going twds ground, but if I understand correctly, Solen mark their caps randomly
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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #333 - 10/20/12 at 01:55:01
 
Fireblade, have you received your speakers yet?
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Fireblade
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #334 - 10/20/12 at 13:29:28
 
Hey, Raduschka!  I've got them since May.  They're fully broken-in by now, I suppose, and yet the gear (M-T + DM945's) keeps showing incremental improvements in SQ.  
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« Last Edit: 10/20/12 at 13:30:38 by Fireblade »  

Toshiba-Foobar2K-ASIO Direct-WD 2.0Tb HDD-Schiit USB cable-Schiit Yggdrasil DAC-Decware Silver Ref IC's-Decware Mini Torii SE-8PR Kimber Kable spkr cbls-Decware DM945's-Tekton Lore 2-Velodyne DLS 3500 SUB-BJC SUB Cbls-Tripp Lite 500 Isolation Trnsf-Jellyfish S
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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #335 - 10/20/12 at 14:20:32
 
aaaaaaand?
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Les Lammers
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #336 - 10/20/12 at 17:20:01
 
Fireblade is holed up at his casa listening to music.  :-)
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« Last Edit: 10/20/12 at 17:20:37 by Les Lammers »  
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Fireblade
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #337 - 10/20/12 at 19:16:10
 
Cool  Yep, that's right, although not as often as I would like to.  

Regarding the speakers, I have to say I really dig them.  They offer everything I was expecting from them, once they're broken-in and strategically placed in stands, well into your listening area.

They seem to prefer being at a certain minimum distance from adjacent walls and other obstacles (as most speakers do, so I would not recommend them for real bookshelf use or near walls).  The back-firing port holes use the surrounds to propagate and create part of that sonic envelop effect around them, even though they are definitely the direct (beam) sound-oriented type (as opposed to radial sound-oriented).

Just one observation:  I've tried different approaches to handle the lower frequencies, and so far I can attest to the fact that these babies definitely need an active Sub-Woofer for the 65-60 Hz, down.  When I mute my active Sub, the sound really suffers in most recordings, so it is a must, especially if you appreciate bass in your music.  

I'm not talking about harsh rock bass levels, but an enlivened baseline that enhances the rest of the harmonics and rythm involved in any musical playback. Bass in the DM945's is great, just not too deep.  With my Velodyne I get just that ideal combination, to the point where I can adjust the Sub's volume to match each particular selection profile.

Of course, everything I'm stating here is room conditions-dependent and reflect only my particular subjective experience and appraisal.  Having said that, I feel my observations are objective enough as to be used as a reference for other musical tastes and conditions.  

For one thing, although the woofer's size is significant, the enclosure is simply still limited for the bass to fully develop.  What is nice, again, is the quality of that baseline more than its depth, as the latter can always be fixed with a Sub.  I also think part of the quality of that lower frequency baseline stems also from the excellent Mini-Torii's pre-out signal feeding the Sub.

Mid-range and higher register extensions are just fine, so much so, that with 99.5% of my WAV files I never even consider the treble control (high freq. cut-off feature in the Mini-Torii).  Sound is never fatiguing nor edgy, and is neither warm nor cold, but very balanced indeed.

I am of the opinion that I now need to concentrate in improving my front-end sourcing.  There's too much of a difference still between well recorded material and more mundane studio jobs.  I mean, you can play something which rivals the best sound out there, and the next time around it may sound almost average, not as impressive.  I'm now sure it's neither the amp nor the speakers, but possibly my front-end.

I also need to improve my listening room and such, but I'm getting there gradually  :).  I hope this is of help, Radu.
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« Last Edit: 10/20/12 at 19:55:14 by Fireblade »  

Toshiba-Foobar2K-ASIO Direct-WD 2.0Tb HDD-Schiit USB cable-Schiit Yggdrasil DAC-Decware Silver Ref IC's-Decware Mini Torii SE-8PR Kimber Kable spkr cbls-Decware DM945's-Tekton Lore 2-Velodyne DLS 3500 SUB-BJC SUB Cbls-Tripp Lite 500 Isolation Trnsf-Jellyfish S
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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #338 - 10/20/12 at 23:01:15
 
Hi all, I would like to use a pair of AKG headphones with the mini torii. Can I hook them directly to the speaker posts instead of/ along with the speakers? Do I need to add extra resistance? Here are the headphone specs: 105db, 62ohm. Thank you for any input
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Fireblade
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #339 - 10/22/12 at 12:24:39
 
Radu:

I don't have a full answer to your question (as I do not use headphones), but came accross these excerpts from a recent thread from this forum:

DougK: "One off topic question: I'm using ERR speakers and want to use a Mini Torii with them, but also have 60 Ohm headphones I'd like to use occasionally.  Will the Mini Torii drive the headphones well, or should I consider getting the CSP2+ for headphone use?"

deucekazoo: "Yes the Mini will drive them just fine. It was my favorite when I auditioned them all minus the Zen Head. I have 50 ohm headphones and the CSP2+ did not do well with them. Steve said the CSP2+ likes to see 250 ohm and up."

Hope it helps.









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« Last Edit: 10/22/12 at 12:26:00 by Fireblade »  

Toshiba-Foobar2K-ASIO Direct-WD 2.0Tb HDD-Schiit USB cable-Schiit Yggdrasil DAC-Decware Silver Ref IC's-Decware Mini Torii SE-8PR Kimber Kable spkr cbls-Decware DM945's-Tekton Lore 2-Velodyne DLS 3500 SUB-BJC SUB Cbls-Tripp Lite 500 Isolation Trnsf-Jellyfish S
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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #340 - 10/22/12 at 15:14:49
 
thanks a lot! I gave up on that project, I remembered how little I liked listening through headphones.
One day you should talk about the sound coming out of your speakers  :-)
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Fireblade
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #341 - 10/22/12 at 18:25:05
 
Just go back 4 posts in this thread and you'll find my observations on the sound coming out from my speakers ...
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Toshiba-Foobar2K-ASIO Direct-WD 2.0Tb HDD-Schiit USB cable-Schiit Yggdrasil DAC-Decware Silver Ref IC's-Decware Mini Torii SE-8PR Kimber Kable spkr cbls-Decware DM945's-Tekton Lore 2-Velodyne DLS 3500 SUB-BJC SUB Cbls-Tripp Lite 500 Isolation Trnsf-Jellyfish S
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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #342 - 10/22/12 at 18:47:01
 
interesting, I missed it completely! will read now
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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #343 - 10/22/12 at 18:56:09
 
yes, great Fireblade! I never got the email so I was still waiting for you to post your impressions. I got rid of the treble roll off pot altogether, as I never used it. I got rid of my CD player too a while ago, I ripped everything to flac and use a Musical Fidelity V-link 192 btw usb port and spdif on the DAC.     I have 4 v-caps inside the mini torii and Obbligatos and solens in the power area.  If something sounds subpar these days I know it is not my system Smiley  I sometimes question my ears and moods, sometimes the power company, oftentimes the recording.   Thank god I have satisfying levels of bass, although I must say that I invested at least an extra 1000$ into the mini torii to get it there.      I wonder what type of sub you are using.
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HPDJ
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #344 - 10/22/12 at 21:16:28
 
Hey guys, wanted to post a quick question and I should (and may still) post it in a more appropriate thread later on but.....

My CD player has been giving me problems and I am now sending it back to the manufacturer for the 3rd time and there is a dealer out in San Diego who I bought my phono preamp from who tells me that it's probably time to give up on the CD player and use my computer with a program like JPlay etc and a good DAC....he says I can get even better sound this way and can avoid the downfalls of CDP transports...

Now, I'm new to the Hi-Fi world but I am totally aware of doing things the computer way, but it seems like if I can get better sound then it's something I should look into. I primarily listen to CD's and thought that going the computer route would introduce other factors that would maybe take away from the sound on my CD's....I'll probably have to spend some money demoing some DAC's and seeing what I think, but...

Anyway! I read these threads all the time, but I'd love to hear (read) what you use in the computer realm of things (if you use your computer at all) and if you don't use it, then why...

I've read things about usb spdif converters, jitter etc etc and it makes my head spin thinking about the extra things I would need to just get the audio on my PC sounding as good as the music coming from a great CD player....does this make sense? The computer convenience thing doesn't really apply to me because I do enjoy grabbing the disk and holding the art work blah blah blah (you've heard it all b4 haha) and I'm usually fixated on one album at a time for what turns out to be weeks sometimes.  Ok, no more rambling for now...hope you all are well!

PS:
Steve mentions this on the ZDAC page which I found interesting:

"With a computer you can rip CD's that are checked against online databases for accuracy.  This means you can get a bit-for-bit perfect recordings with zero errors - this is difficult to achieve even with brand new CD's on the very best transports."

My Gear:
Mini Torii
Trapezium speakers
Decware IC's and speaker cables
Denon DP-72L vintage turntable
Musical Surroundings Phonomena II Phono Preamp
CDP (on it's way to be repaired)
LCD 2 headphones
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #345 - 10/22/12 at 21:23:44
 
H,

I'll probably be the only one responding this way but I've not gone the computer audio route, I tried it with the help of a digital engineer friend of mine and I just didn't' enjoy the process, I like cds, the physical product, I didn't like having stuff on a database, and I honestly didn't think that the sound was improved. Using a transport to a ZDAC-1 (at that time) and a laptop to the ZDAC-1 I didn't hear improvement. I think that EAC thing of "error free" reading of discs is overblown myself. I have it now in a PS Audio Perfectwave Transport I am using and it's not a big reason this sounds so good, the reason it does is a "digital lens" that takes care of jitter problems and I2S transmission via HDMI.

So . . . in your shoes I would be looking at another disc spinner (an SACD player probably as I like that format very much for Classical music) or a cd player as a transport and a great DAC. I spent big bucks for my PS Audio rig and LOVE the sound, I'm set. . . .

Just my opinion, and it's not a popular one here. Hope you get a very satisfying sound going either way, soon!
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« Last Edit: 10/22/12 at 21:24:36 by Lon »  

HR-1,ZP3,ZTPRE,Torii MkIII,ZBIT,ZROCK2,Taboo MkIV;PS Audio:Soloist SE,DMP+DSD,P10,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs,Mapleshade:Dbl Helix+,SamsonV2+V3;CambrAudi CXU;Rega RP3,TTPSU,Groovetracer upgrades,Exact2;VooDoo Cremona +Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner,Oppo PM-1,Audeze LCD-2
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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #346 - 10/22/12 at 21:57:07
 
Hi HPDJ! It would be interesting to know what CD player that is you are talking about, as it is basically what you would be upgrading from.  here is my experience: I used to listen to a tube output Cayin 15T (with switchable upsampling), which I had bought new for about 1500$ Can$ (just so you have an idea). I built my own DAC (a kit from audionote:2000$, much more expensive if you go for the finished product). I have 1000 CD's stacked away in drawers and lying all over the place in piles. I was miserable for years, never finding what i wanted to listen to, searching for ever, ending up listening to the same 20 CD's that I kept in a pile near my cd player.
A few months ago i decided to move away from this unbearable lifestyle, bought a 100$ 2Tb external drive and started ripping my CD's to flac via EAC (in case one of them explodes or goes into internal combustion/atomic fusion, you need to have a backup of all your music).
Then I installed a usb port on my DIY DAC (a diy hagerman usb port). The HAG came highly recommended, yet it sounded like crap.
I tried to understand what the best wifi solution was for relaying data from PC to DAC, but the information was enragingly inconsistent (or else there is always a perfect solution for 5000$).
I decided to go with a cheap USB cable from Staples. (50$, 5 meters).
I could not listen to the hagerman so I continued listening to my CD player.
Then I discovered the Musical Fidelity V-link 192. The V link is a usb to spdif converter.  (I know, this sounds like a commercial) Smiley  Got one for about 400$ from germany (via ebay) and TADA!
My CD player is now gathering dust, because the sound was simply MUCH better, visibly and audibly so, from the very start. I have no idea why, presumably lack of jitter??? (at this point I was using the cd player as a transport, of course, since I have the AN DAC).

My PC runs all day, so I don't have to turn it on for music listening. It happens to be in an adjacent room, so I don't need to make it more silent than it is (it is also DIY, with a wooden case ). A long cable running through the hallway is the biggest disadvantage of this setup.

I don't even need the wifi to be on, unless I need to remote control the PC through my Ipod. I use Foobar (freeware), which plays flac files (and everything else) using ASIO 64 drivers (easily installed).

I am not a fan of physical CDs, or booklets, although I read them all when I get a chance.

I tried to make a diy usb cable, but couldn't find diy usb plugs. Information on usb cable impact on sound quality is also enragingly inconsistent. But I can tell you that my 50$ cable, whether it is the bottleneck or not, runs circles around the CD player.

For me this was the way to go and i can't imagine going back. I am not attached to the Cd player, I was born in 74 and the advent of Cds forced me to stop attaching myself to media. It was sad enough to lose the tapes, i wouldn't let technology hurt me again Smiley

If you need specific help just let me know

PS: moving up from my CD'S internal DAC to the external DAC was the biggest move forward in terms of sonic experience. Followed by the replacement of the CD transport with the PC as a transport.    But the convenience of being able to play any album i feel like!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh boy!!!!!!!!!!
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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #347 - 10/22/12 at 22:04:03
 
all that and what Lon said Smiley
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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #348 - 10/22/12 at 22:08:12
 
i think the PS perfect wave cd reader costs a fortune given what a cheap PC (or MAC)  can do these days. In my understanding, EAC does manage to make a perfect copy of the cd and the drive + foobar then to send a bit perfect copy to the DAC. Problems arise during usb transmission, depending on what technology is used. i do not have that problem any longer. To my ears I am way past my cd player by now. Sonically of course, i would never trade sound for ease of use.
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Lon
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #349 - 10/22/12 at 22:11:55
 
I know the PS Audio Duo is expensive (especially since a price hike) but I have never heard sound like this before anywhere and I'm insanely happy with my digital now. I can also use it as a preamplifier and it covers three sources for me: Redbook, DVR and Blu-ray with exquisite sound. I'm set for everything but vinyl, and SACD (for now, there's rumors that the PS Audio will be updated to do SACD). It's the centerpiece of a killer audio visual system that just gives me a jolt every day.

I'm glad you're enjoying your set up, it's just not a route that works for me. I'm working to get myself away from computers, not moving more of my world into them. And I just don't like the process, as opposed to having my library of discs to peruse and marvel over.

Rad if PS Audio ever does come out with the separate "Digital Lens" they say they have in the pipeline, look into it. I think that is at the heart of what makes the sound so incredible, I can switch it in and out in my DAC and it's not subtle the difference no jitter makes. I think you would really dig what it does.
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« Last Edit: 10/22/12 at 22:18:06 by Lon »  

HR-1,ZP3,ZTPRE,Torii MkIII,ZBIT,ZROCK2,Taboo MkIV;PS Audio:Soloist SE,DMP+DSD,P10,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs,Mapleshade:Dbl Helix+,SamsonV2+V3;CambrAudi CXU;Rega RP3,TTPSU,Groovetracer upgrades,Exact2;VooDoo Cremona +Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner,Oppo PM-1,Audeze LCD-2
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