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Mini Torii SE Amplifier (Read 77335 times)
ZYGI
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #30 - 04/14/11 at 22:38:51
 
I have a hard time putting things into words as well...and English is my native language.

The amps will do that, I found that once the mini is broken in and well seasoned, you can't make the bass sound bad. It doesn't seem to care what load you put to it, its spot on.

Your links to your photos are private, I can see them.....

ZYGI
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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #31 - 04/15/11 at 03:23:48
 
hello again Rivieraranch,

I can now say that all things equal, the 0d3 are the regulators that make the amp sound best for me, they make it keep Steve's promise of great bass lines that you can follow easily. They saturate the sound in a way that makes the amp sound 'big', in my understanding of the word. They make it sound like my 70 watt jolida, but without the crap.
The only regulator I haven't tried yet is the 0c3.
Also, placing little pieces of rubber between the spikes and the floor helped a lot with the low end.

Regards
Radu
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mac5u
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #32 - 04/17/11 at 17:27:47
 
Raduschka,

Which Jolida 70 watt amp do you have?  Is it the 801A?  If so, I am curious about the "crap" you are hearing versus what you are hearing in the Mini Torii as I have the 801A as well.

Thanks.
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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #33 - 04/17/11 at 18:10:41
 
hello Mac5u, I didn't mean to put down YOUR Jolida, I was just referring to mine... I guess now I have to stand behind my words. I know someone who has the Joilda 801...B I think, anyway, the version that has the bias pots on the bottom rather than the top. His was heavily modified (point to point internal silver wiring and everything else you can read about on Bill Baker's Response Audio site). He uses vinyl and is quite happy with the sound (driving a pair of hungry dynaudios).
I have the A version, with the pots on top and no modification other than selector pot bypass directly to volume pot, which made one hell of a difference in imaging capabilities.
So, on to the 'crap'. And I mean this with a grain of salt.
I used to drive a pair of Triangle Antal xs speakers with it. Those retailed for 3000$ new and won the diapason d'or back in 2003 or so, maybe 2002.  The Jolida could not get the bass right under any circumstance.  It was inarticulate when there was a lot of it in the recording, and absent when there was just enough to be reproduced. I had way more bass in my akg headphones and was going: ah, so this is the bass line of this song! Could not hear it in the system. Everything else seemed to be so so with the Jolida. In and of  itself it did a decent job of imaging (after the selector pot was taken out of the way). The midrange was ok, highs were ok, music was powerful. Rock music sounded good. I listened to it then on my Audio Nirvana 10inchers and I am selling both my Triangle speakers and my Jolida. After I got the Audio Nirvana, the Triangles sound as if I covered the Nirvanas with a thick wool blanket, and I am not exaggerating. After I got the Mini Torii, the Jolida sounds kind of the same. The imaging on the Mini Torii is simply incomparable, so are the timbre, the bottom end, the midrange, the highs etc etc.... What can I say? The Jolida hits hard, but the torii hits right.  I suppose I could use Steve's idea of the first watt that sucks. Some people buy the Jolida for around 700 $ (the aforementioned person got his for 800$ after full modification, which must have cost around 1000$ by itself) . I heard that they sound good once modified, but why bother when you can get a mini torii for exactly the same price for which  I bought my Jolida new, that is 1500$. of course here in Canada the torii ended up costing 1800$.
If the Jolida was a steal in terms of price, I would not be harsh on it, but it camoflages itself as high end and I find it deceiving. I still like my hybrid Jolida 301 or so, which retails for 400$ and which some would call crap. I like the way it sounds for the money Smiley

With the 801 it is the opposite.
I am sure there are a million products out there falling in all of these price per value categories. And it is all pretty relative, as I am sure the Mini Torii can be improved upon. In terms of sound, yes.

I regret having used the term crap, I was eager to put down what had let me down. I thank my Jolida 801 for a few nights of pleasure and as we part I will not regret the many hours of trying hard to make out the bass lines on old Genesis albums.
ps: if you have power hungry speakers you can try cheap effective and fantastic sounding fullrange drivers from Audio Nirvana, commonsense audio, David Dicks is a great guy to email questions to. You can build your cabinets easily and cheaply and they are so simple that you can't go wrong.
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« Last Edit: 04/17/11 at 18:19:20 by Raduschka »  
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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #34 - 04/17/11 at 18:28:00
 
...the Torii sounds transparent in comparison with the Jolida. You can hear subtle differences. For exemple, a mono recording of the Miles Davis quintet (I can't find it in my massive pile of cd's unfortunately). I tried to listen to it on the Jolida. It sounded like a blob of undifferentiated sound between the two speakers. Yes, I could tell it was music, but could not listen to it. I thought, surely this is a poor recording, and even remastered as it is, they could not improve it much. I was wrong. On the torii it sounded just right and I could tell one saxophone from another and from the trumpet, the bass from the drum etc and I was not even missing the stereophony because the 'soundstage' was coherent even in mono. I call that a huge improvement.
The zen kit was doing that well too. However I prefered the Jolida to the zen kit on a number of recordings, as the Zen was lacking bass, especially on the hungry not so sensitive Triangles, and the Jolida sounded big, good for Karkwa, Bashung etc, rock bands.
The torii sounds right with mostly anything, although I wish it had Jolida's BIG sound sometimes.
Can you tell it's raining and I have nothing else to do today? Smiley
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mac5u
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #35 - 04/18/11 at 00:55:32
 
No need to apologize for anything at all, Raduschka.  You hear what you hear and your experience is what it is.  I have had the Jolida 801A for three year now.  It is the one with the bias pots on the bottom; really, the most ridiculous design!  As you know, to bias it, one must turn it over, and since there are three transformers, I use a coffee can as the fourth leg.  Each time I need to bias this thing, I think to myself it is time to get a new amp.

Regarding the big sound of the Jolida, remember you are comparing a 70 watt tube amp to a 4 watt tube amp.  At a certain point , no matter how good the amp might be, in my view, 4 watts isn't going to cut it in every situation.  (Now donning flame suit).  

I was going to have Bill Baker mod mine but one delay led to another and by the time I was ready, Bill stopped doing mods on it so he could concentrate on his own amps.  So, maybe it is not such a bad thing that he stopped doing mods.  It makes for a compelling reason to consider either the Mini Torii or the Zen Torii Mk III.  

The only thing stopping me on the Mini Torii is the idea of re-tubing the amp.  I like the idea of tube rolling; this amp takes that idea to an extreme and for me, might be a distraction.  

Anyway, thank for describing the differences you are hearing between the two amps.  Next time, I turn over that
!@#$ Jolida to bias it, maybe the next thing I do after that is order a Decware amp.  
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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #36 - 04/18/11 at 03:19:46
 
I can't think of a worse idea than placing bias pots on the bottom of a huge and heavy amplifier. It has to be running on top of everything, connected to the speakers and everything.....
Do you have the budget for the zen torii mk3? If I hadn't wasted my money on a zen kit and a bunch of useless stuff I would have gotten one of those I guess, but I always think the next purchase will sound better, it is time for me to enjoy what I have, especially since I now have a really great amp!!!!!
I don't really see how the tube rolling would put you off, plus I am sure the mk3 is just as sensitive to it as the mini torii. If you can hear the subtle differences between tubes it means that the rest of the amp is that good, that transparent. With the Jolida I would switch tubes and cables and hear no difference, not such a good sign.
I was hesitant to build my own speakers since I was afraid I would have to play forever with the damping, afraid I would get it wrong and always wonder if my speakers could sound better if made by a professional. None of that has subsisted, I know now from experience how damping affects sound and feel responsible for part of my sound, as if I had cooked myself a good meal rather than have my grandmother expertly but secretly prepare it for me.
Tube rolling could get expensive and out of hand, but if done responsively it is a source of guiltless pleasure. I am discovering it now, because my set up allows it.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/61617415@N02/5629720211/lightbox/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/61617415@N02/5631091661/lightbox/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/61617415@N02/5631779780/lightbox/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/61617415@N02/5631196141/lightbox/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/61617415@N02/5642238854/lightbox/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/61617415@N02/5642238072/lightbox/
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« Last Edit: 04/22/11 at 02:41:14 by Raduschka »  
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mac5u
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #37 - 04/20/11 at 01:14:16
 
Not to hijack the thread any further so one final comment about the Jolida 801A.  I have the manual and confirmed the model through Jolida using the serial # before I bought it.  The model I have is the 801A with the bias pots on the bottom. I read somewhere the B version is the an updated 801A after Jolida wised up and put the pots on the top.  I'll respond to your PM a bit later.

With respect to tube-rolling, I am not saying it wouldn't be fun.  For me, with certain time constraints and all the possible configurations to try, well, it would be a distraction because I can be impatient.  

The Decware forums have gotten more interesting lately with new members posting experiences and some of the old regulars chiming in with their own experiences or helpful suggestions and new product introductions.  

Back to our regularly scheduled programming.
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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #38 - 04/22/11 at 03:23:16
 

_MG_3238 par raduschka, sur Flickr


mini t par raduschka, sur Flickr


_MG_3031 par raduschka, sur Flickr


_MG_3233 par raduschka, sur Flickr

_MG_3039 par raduschka, sur Flickr


_MG_3229 par raduschka, sur Flickr


Capture par raduschka, sur Flickr
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« Last Edit: 04/22/11 at 14:36:56 by Raduschka »  
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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #39 - 04/27/11 at 23:10:10
 
Hello,
does anyone have any experience with Cifte Mazda 12au7 tubes in the Mini torii? I am using them now and they sound particularly detailed, with remarkably extended highs. I keep comparing them to Mullard 12at7 and they both sound great. I think I prefer the Cifte for their capability to reveal detail in the music and the Mullard for their overall tone. Can anyone please tell me how many hours it takes to break in an input tube? That is, to make sure I am listening to the tube at its 100%.
Thank you
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Rivieraranch
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #40 - 04/28/11 at 00:25:28
 
Somebody commented favorably on them a while ago. They should be broken in after a few hours.
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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #41 - 04/28/11 at 00:31:36
 
Thank you!
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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #42 - 04/28/11 at 01:48:11
 
Genalex - Gold Lion 6V6GT / CV511 reissue (80$ for the pair)
sound really uninvolving compared directly with the stock JJ that were on the Mini Torii (and which cost around 25$ the pair here in Canada). The JJ have punch and a sweet midrange, the Genalex have nothing special to them.
They sound nasial and unnatural in my system.
My experience.
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« Last Edit: 05/06/11 at 00:11:51 by Raduschka »  
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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #43 - 04/28/11 at 02:00:13
 
..
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« Last Edit: 05/06/11 at 00:10:48 by Raduschka »  
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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #44 - 05/02/11 at 21:19:29
 
Achtung achtung all of you,
I have received in the mail my 2 pairs of Duende Criatura tube rings. Yes, in my setup, and I do not see why it would be particularly prone to vibrations of any kind, they make a huge difference. And one desirable difference that is. I had time to relisten to a murky sounding cd I tried to listen to yesterday. With the rings in place on the 12at7 and the 6v6 I realized that there was nothing wrong with the recording (Sephardic Romances on Naxos). Timbre, soundstage, they turned out to be absolutely alright, whereas yesterday the voices sounded nasial, the strings had a weird ring to them and it was impossible to tell where everything was placed. Another visible difference, I can now turn up the volume and the sound remains palpably clean.
Not inexpensive at 100$ for 2 pairs, but very interesting per se, apparently sturdy and indestructible, backed up by 15 years of existence.
In my experience they live up to their official claims of cleaning up the soundstage and tightening the bottom end. I haven't yet tried to listen with only 1 pair in place, some say that there is a danger of overdamping the tubes and thus making the amp sound less musical. The mechanics of that elude me and I do not like to believe in things that I don't understand, but I will keep you posted if my experience confirms any of that.
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