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Mini Torii SE Amplifier (Read 77336 times)
Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #285 - 04/15/12 at 21:22:12
 
even though I am at my parents< place for easter, i gotta say this:
I lowered the output voltage of my dac from 2.1-2.5 to 0.9 and that lowered the volume (db) only marginally. Very marginally, it did not even solve my late night volume issue!!!!

Since i am not shy with a soldering iron I would think that soldering  2 resistors per channel inside the amp would be a better solution than the rca attenuators because one would bypass one extra connection point, that is the metal casing of the external atts. I tend to think more and more that I would not notice any degradation, now that I have more experience with what does and what does not degrade sound. Low output from the dac plus thin silver wire plus my atts resulted in distorted music at low levels.
The old pots seem to be ok, yes. i have to turn them down 3 steps from maximum to achieve useful attenuation on that 1st step of mine.
I am now thinking I will install the pots so that they affect the first step of the atts only! For that i will have to open them up.

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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #286 - 04/15/12 at 21:27:25
 
Erik, maybe FB (although FB could mean both Florida Boy and Fireblade Smiley) is in bigger need of those attenuators than me at the moment. I would think 6db is not enough though.
The technician from ...i can<t remember...Partsconnexion I think, said 2 47k resistors connected at the rca input in a way i can easily draw for you, would lower the volume by more or less 6db. let me know if you need the schematic.
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Les Lammers
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #287 - 04/15/12 at 21:32:39
 
I won't have the amp for 3 months so.... Wink
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Fireblade
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #288 - 04/15/12 at 22:15:07
 
Florida Boy & Erik,

You're absolutely right. †For a moment I thought of it as an adapter between cables. †I just did not see those attenuators could simply plug to the amp directly duhhh!!!

Excellent solution, then, and a relief in case I may feel the need to tame that gain.  For the time being though, I'm inclined to assume Radushka's case is somewhat special, and not necessarily typical.  Even with my higher max DAC output voltage (2.25), I still think my 94 dB speakers and a less restrictive loudness condition should keep things manageable.

In two more days the theoretical 12 weeks are over, so we'll soon learn whether I'm right or not.
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« Last Edit: 04/15/12 at 22:29:38 by Fireblade »  

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erik2a3
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #289 - 04/16/12 at 11:40:58
 
I have no issue whatsoever with the Mini Torii and excessive gain.  It also worked very well with the volume controls turned up about 3/4 and a preamp in front of it.
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Have fun!
erik
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Fireblade
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #290 - 04/16/12 at 15:41:51
 
Great, Erik! †That seems to be the general case. †Do you know your DAC's or CDP's ouput voltage? †Since mine is slightly higher than normal (1/8th higher, no big deal), I would like to rule out that maybe yours is under average and that may explain you're able to even use the 12aT7 (higher-gain) drivers without gain issues.

If your DAC (or CDP) output voltage is within the 1.8-2.0 V range, this would be even more reassuring, although I don't foresee problems with gain in my case as it is.

Happy listening (...and tweaking †;) †)
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« Last Edit: 04/16/12 at 19:07:04 by Fireblade »  

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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #291 - 04/16/12 at 18:43:33
 
I have a pair of ez81 and adapters to use them directly in place of the 6x4. I have 10 pairs og 6x4, out of which I can only use 2 pairs because of whistling issues.

The cap that goes to ground from the 6x4 is 47uf, apparently high for 6x4 and kind of ok for ez81.
Indeed, the ez81 take a while before they power up compared to the 6x4.

If I switch to 10uf I wonít be able to use the ez81, right?

I canít make a decision on my own, unfortunately, because I donít know much about this issue.

Please help!
ps: solid core silver input wire inside the MT to replace the original MOGAMI, brings substantial detail and life back into the music this morning.
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Fireblade
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #292 - 04/16/12 at 19:16:05
 
Radu,

I don't have an answer for your question, sorry (Erik or Kevin will, I'm sure), but I was surprised by your P.D. message: 'solid core silver input wire inside the MT to replace the original MOGAMI, brings substantial detail and life back into the music'

What is that, an internal wiring for the inputs built by Mogami? †I know they build quality wires but was not aware Decware used them internally. †Moreover, they are supposed to be the best, how come a silver core wire improved over them? †Is this silver core wire insulated like the Mogami? †Did you check for interferences or noises getting through?

Man, this is getting more interesting by the minute ...  Happy Easter, BTW.
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« Last Edit: 04/16/12 at 19:17:09 by Fireblade »  

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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #293 - 04/16/12 at 19:57:44
 
I am talking about the wire going from the rca to the atts and then from there to the 2k7 resistor and the input tubes. I cannot tell you why I think it is mogami, I must have read it while they were out 'cause I can't see it in the pics I took.
I replaced both back and forth with 28awg pure silver in cotton from VHaudio (also found in my interconnects, w. eichmann bullets). WHile I initially thought they were a tad bright, once I switched back to the original Mogami Low noise wire used by Steve I wasn't able to listen to the MT anymore, all detail was gone.
I will find a way to shield them at a certain point, right now I couldn't be happier. Am even considering putting an end to the modification spree.... We'll see how THAT goes.

wire par raduschkamuschka, sur Flickr
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Fireblade
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #294 - 04/16/12 at 20:49:05
 
Amazing!  Seems like that Mini Torii of yours spends more time with an open hood than a hot rod!

Could you estimate for us the level of subjective improvement in sound stemming from the combination of VCaps and now this wiring swap?  Assume the original M-T configuration equals to 100%, what % over that do you think it has improved through these two changes?

Thanks!
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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #295 - 04/16/12 at 21:14:01
 
I like that question! I had a whole class on psychometry this semester Smiley
I spent 500$ on these modifications and 2000$ on a new diy DAC. The new DAC made a huge difference of course...
The Vcaps brought a big improvement in detail and timbre, which became fully evident only when I replaced the 0.1 caps with mundorf's supreme. The 2k7 from shinko revealed some more.
Attenuators made everything more coherent. Same with bypassing the source selector. SIlver input wire 'takes away a veil' compared to the original wire.
Of course everything is not just more detailed now but also much more enjoyable, although it was pretty enjoyable to start with. I particularly salute the tightening and detailing of the bass, which seemed a little unassuming and bloated in the beginning. I also salute the timbre which is to die for now. And also the detail, which makes the music come through, and alive.
The layering is far more diverse and identifiable. Soundstage depth hasn't budged an inch though...
Also, after the Vcaps I noticed surprising dynamic changes in places I know by heart. A tom tom strike in one channel, a guitar note, they come right out at you in the foreground. There was none of that before.
Dynamics, but also detail, seem to be crucial to enjoyment.
All in all I feel I own a little gem.
Subjective improvement, as far as I am concerned: from 100% to  150-180%. I don't know what more I could want, but I also don't know what is out here.
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Fireblade
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #296 - 04/16/12 at 21:39:41
 
Thanks for sharing this, Radushka.  That is a whole lot of improvement, to say the least!  

How much of this improvement is due to the new DAC, do you think?  The reason I ask, is to differentiate or assess improvement potential from the Mini Torii itself.  A better DAC is an investment proposition.  I'm more interested in validating the tweaks to the existing M-T design.

I know this is not easy to quantify, so please just give it your best shot.  After all, you've been there since the beginning.    ;)
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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #297 - 04/16/12 at 21:49:52
 
all I said above took place (or was perceived) well after I diy-ed the dac. It is all indeed very hard to assess and extremely subjective. Someone else might feel that the Vcaps are way too expensive for the change they brought about, or not like the change. I was hesitant in the beginning.
I noticed a marked worsening of the soundstage when I replaced the 47k and 240K resistors with tantalum 2watt AN and Kiwame 2watt respectively, so I went back to the original 240k and to AN 1/2 watt 47k. One of the original 47k was defective.
I tried 400V 0.1uf auricaps and did not like their metallic sound. My girlfriend said they sounded metallic too.
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Raduschka
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #298 - 04/16/12 at 21:53:03
 
Mogami are the best? They do say so on their website:-)
My father was smoking 'the best' cigarettes yesterday, I forgot what they were... Check out VHaudio, there is a diy receipe for IC that are better than the best apparently. I made them myself and they do sound great. They are called flavour ......4 or 3, I can't recall.
All the best!
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Fireblade
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Re: Mini Torii SE Amplifier
Reply #299 - 04/16/12 at 21:56:39
 
A lot of hard work trial-and-error.  I guess you've had much fun going through it too.  Take good care of that little gem. Congrats!
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