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Ambiophonics (Read 5816 times)
Azul Shiva
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Ambiophonics
03/09/09 at 19:54:56
 
Hi everyone!

Have you ever heard of the technology called ambiophonics? It's far better than common stereo. It gives you the "I am there" sensation like no other system. All you need is a Computer with the free RACE software, 4 speakers and 1 (or 2) Subwoofers. All ambiophonics do, is remove crosstalk between the stereo speakers, which widens the sound stage up to 150° in front of you, removes comb filtering, and so increases the sound quality. Read more about it on www.ambiophonics.org

Don't ignore it! You will have missed something otherwise!


For a quick test, just use a matress or an absorbtion panel to place between two closely placed speakers (20°) right in front of you. If it doesn't sound good, or you are disappointed, it could because he sound barrier is not large / thick enough. Try reducing the Bass; might help. Make sure the sound is sereo and not mono.

The good thing is, you won't need any diffusors, although they will work. Aim for reverberation times of less than 0.2 seconds. Effecs can be added by satellite speakers and the compuer.

Ambiophonics can be used for movies as well as for music.

www.ambiophonics.org


RACE software eliminates crosstalk between the speakers and replaces the sound barrier.

Download RACE software here:
http://www.ambiophonics.org/files/RACE/RM-RACE_F%2Bmidi.amh

and open in AudioMulch. (picure):
http://www.ambiophonics.org/files/RACE/RM-RACE_F%2Bmidi.amh.jpg

A barrier will still offer the best sound, and it would be the best decision unless you want to use a TV. A barrier should be made of 6cm MDF and 10cm of rockwool on either side. It should go from the listener to the speakers, best: actually touching the listeners nose. It should also be 3m tall, or alternativeley reach up to the ceiling.

Please Post a reply how it worked! I would be very happy to answer any questions.


Kindest Regards,
Wolfgang
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« Last Edit: 03/09/09 at 20:19:54 by Azul Shiva »  

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DPC
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Re: Ambiophonics
Reply #1 - 03/10/09 at 11:04:04
 
Hey Wolfgang,

Our friend Paul suggested something similar to this to me a few years ago.

dennis
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Azul Shiva
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Re: Ambiophonics
Reply #2 - 03/10/09 at 12:14:15
 
Yes, but I hoped that more people will read it on the General Discussion Forum and Paul wrote so much, even I didn't bother to read all of it. I doubt that he mentioned room treatment and the usage of RACE and sound correction.
I also am concentrating 100% on Ambiophonics, unlike Paul at the moment, and am in good contact with Ralph Glasgal.

Kindest Regards,
Wolfgang
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buzz
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Re: Ambiophonics
Reply #3 - 03/11/09 at 12:03:29
 
Hi Wolfgang,

It appears that the main premise of Ambio is the cancellation of mono signal for the main speakers above 1k5hz. Then 'ambient' higher frequency information is delayed 1.8ms+ and reproduced by the 'wall' speakers. Is this over-simplified definition close to the basic process?
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Azul Shiva
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Re: Ambiophonics
Reply #4 - 03/12/09 at 16:44:22
 
Hi buzz!

If you play Mono on Ambiophonics the sound will simply be coming from the very front. If you play Mono below 90Hz, the sound will not be localizable. You will not want to eliminate Mono, because you will have a hole in the sound in the front. When you watch a movie the dialog is usually coming in Mono. The Ambiophonic speakers will play it like a normal center speaker in a 5.1 Surround system.

I do not know about 1.5Khz crossover at Mono. I use expensive Audaphon Ribbon Tweeters in the 4 Ambiophonic Speakers (Electrostatic Fullrange's are recommended but expensive) and do not feel like taking them away. Dialog usually reaches up to 5Khz so I do not know if it wil work.

I will inform myself exactly on the Mono crossover at 1.5Khz and get back to you on this in a few days. But I can tell you that this is not a premise when listening to music without concert hall impressions and you can enjoy Ambiophonics without that.

Stay tuned!


Sincerely,
Wolfgang
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« Last Edit: 03/13/09 at 15:15:14 by Azul Shiva »  

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Azul Shiva
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Re: Ambiophonics
Reply #5 - 03/13/09 at 15:06:56
 
Dear Buzz,

I had to inquire Ralph Glasgal about the issue and here is his reply:

"I am sorry but what is stated below is complete nonsense.  Ambiophonics combines three protocols to achieve binaural realism in sound reproduction.  Speaker/room correction and ambience generation from concert hall impulse responses are two of them.  The third, which can also stand alone, is to replace the stereo loudspeaker triangle with an Ambiodipole.  Basically, the idea is to ensure that each ear can only hear the speaker that is directly in front of it.  This is loudspeaker binaural in other words.  An Ambiodipole does with loudspeakers what earphones have been trying to do for years.

This has nothing to do with mono signals or anything to do with any frequency response bands.  Essentially over the full range of frequencies, one processes the signals going to two loudspeakers at about 20 degrees apart so that despite their proximity the right ear cannot hear the left speaker and vice versa.  No ambient information is involved and I haven't the foggiest idea where the 1.8 ms number comes from.  The optional wall speakers, if used, mimic concert hall walls and reproduce signals derived by computer from stored impulse responses of the great concert halls and opera houses of the world.  They would not be used if you are listening to a guitar with a vocal unless you want to hear them as if they were in the Freibourg Cathedral."


I can add that you don't have to manipulate the soundtrack in any way. You just play it with RACE software and whatever room correction you do on Audio Mulch (except if you use a physical sound barrier)

There is lots of information on this on:

http://www.tactlab.com/Products/RCS22XP/ambiophonic_system.html

Thank you for inquiring.


Sincerely,
Wolfgang
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« Last Edit: 03/13/09 at 15:11:18 by Azul Shiva »  

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buzz
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Re: Ambiophonics
Reply #6 - 03/14/09 at 00:38:28
 
Funny, I got the info from the Ambio website...  ::)

Thanks Wolfgang!
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Azul Shiva
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Re: Ambiophonics
Reply #7 - 03/15/09 at 14:32:50
 
Hi everyone!

The ideal speakers for Ambiophonics are of course electrostatic full ranges with two cone subwoofers. If anyone can compare different types of speakers and subwoofers (in terms of, horn loaded, sealed enclosure, bass-reflex, Transmissionline - there's also a new Subwoofer technology invented by BOSE using air pressure - or Dome, cone, ribbon...)  in Ambiophonics or has experience with one type of speaker please post how it sounded, what its weaknesses and strengths are.
As far as I know, no tests were made by the Ambiophonic developers and inventers with that. It would be greatly appreciatet if you could contribute to this experiment.

All I can say for now is that the speakers shouldn't stray sound about in the room and that the subwoofer should take over below 90Hz. Horns wouldn't be a good choice for the Ambiodipoles, although they can be used as Subwoofers.

Thanks a lot!


Kindest Regards,
Wolfgang
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« Last Edit: 03/15/09 at 14:34:24 by Azul Shiva »  

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Re: Ambiophonics
Reply #8 - 03/15/09 at 15:46:55
 
Wolfgang,

You mentioned that Paul gives us a lot to read.  Well, you are doing the same thing here. Smiley

I would very much like to try this method but will wait until someone else refines it down to something a little more simple to understand. Smiley

dennis
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Azul Shiva
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Re: Ambiophonics
Reply #9 - 03/15/09 at 15:59:51
 
Hi dennis,

Okaaaaayy... Let's make it a little simpler:

You need 2 speakers and 2 Subwoofers. The speakers in front should be placed in a 20° angle in front of you. The subwoofers should go to the corners. If you want, you can do the same thing in the back. Put a soundbarrier like in the picture above between the speakers and move as close to it as possible. The sound barrier should be made of 6cm MDF and 10cm Rockwool on either side and go from the speakers to you (that should be at least 2 meters) and it should be 3 meters high or alternatively reach up to the ceiling.
Of course, first you may use a matress. If it doesn't sound good, it's probably because the matress is too small or too thin. Try reducing the bass of the stereo speakers.
Later on you may use a computer with the RACE software to replace the sound barrier.
Try this, then continue.

If there is something you don't understand, please ask, and don't wait until someone makes it easier to understand; for the sakes of all of us. To all of you; lurkers, you won't find what you need by scanning one topic after the other. Concentrate on something!

I don't say it's bad to write a lot, like Paul does; if you care about something there is a lot of useful info in it. It's just funny because I was the first to reply on that topic in 2 years. So please keep this topic alive.
In a few weeks, I will install a new Ambiophonic Room in my new house, and will go through each step exactly. For now lets just say that this topic is very uncontrolled and unordered but I do hope, some people will find their answers (and new questions) here, and will be interested in creating an ambiophonic system. Just stay active for a few weeks, then things will unfold very quickly.

Stay tuned!


Sincerely,
Wolfgang
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« Last Edit: 03/15/09 at 16:11:46 by Azul Shiva »  

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Azul Shiva
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Re: Ambiophonics
Reply #10 - 04/16/09 at 15:17:11
 
Great News Everyone!

I've found a way to use a TV (if not a beamer) in Ambiophonics with a physical sound barrier. Ralph Glasgal was very enthusiastic of the concept. Call it a tube sound barrier. People on the diyaudioforum have tried my concept with great success.

The positive changes to the plain sound barrier are that, first of all, barely any sound escapes into the room and you need no room treatment at all except for the bass (Bass traps only). You have space for the legs and the barrier should be easy to shift in the room. If you would make the plain sound barrier properly (6cm MDF) you would even save a lot of money (depends how large the speakers are. You should be as close to them as possible, but large speakers with lots of drivers require a longer distance from the listener. Better stick to small 2-way ones) And of course, you can use a TV.

The negative changes are that it will be a little more complex to build (compared to a simple plain) and that you cannot move back and forth as much; you cannot move your head so well.

If you have a wive which doesn't really like your hobby, this is great news for her. Far less sound escapes out into the room because of the tube barrier and it disturbes noone.
I am building my tube barrier ambio system in about 4 months and will go through each step exactly.

Loud speakers with more than 95db/W would be recommended not to strain your tube amplifiers. The tube barrier does reduce the volume.


Please post if you have questions! I will answer them as soon as possible.
Stay tuned!

Kindest Regards,
Wolfgang
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« Last Edit: 04/16/09 at 15:19:24 by Azul Shiva »  

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Azul Shiva
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Re: Ambiophonics
Reply #11 - 04/17/09 at 17:29:37
 
All right everyone! Within 15min. you can enjoy Ambiophonics at home if you follow the steps:

Please Note: This is just a quick test to compare with stereo. This is not the final product.

1. Download 90 days free trial AudioMulch here (Click on one of the links...):

http://www.audiomulch.com/downloads/am100.exe
http://soundbag.com/down/am100.exe
http://www.maz-sound.com/archives/am100.exe
http://www.cabezal.com/misc/am100.exe$

2. Go to

http://www.ambiophonics.org/files/RACE/RM-RACE_F%2Bmidi.amh

Mark the entire text, and save it as a Text File (Program: Editor) and name it RACE.

3. Open AudioMulch after installation. Then go to "open" and open the File "RACE". Then open another osund file and play it through AudioMulch.

Make sure you use 2 computer speakers placed closely next to each other in an angle of less than 20°. Stay about 1 to 2m away from the speakers. Important: The speakers are not allowed to get out of phase! If the speakers are bad, the sound quality will be bad of course. Don't expect any great sound with your computer speakers. In built laptop speakers are critical and I doubt it will work.

You will hear the sound stage widening up to 150° and the sound localization will be truer. You can also build the tube barrier from the previous post and play Ambiophonics using a hi-end stereo system.


Please don't keep questions to yourself.

Kindest Regards,
Wolfgang
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Azul Shiva
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Re: Ambiophonics
Reply #12 - 04/27/09 at 06:51:10
 
Bugger, the tube barrier doesn't work as good as needed. Please ignore it for now, I will fix the problem soon.
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Azul Shiva
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Re: Ambiophonics
Reply #13 - 05/04/09 at 07:06:30
 
Ok, I came up with a new Idea, built it, and it worked great.
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« Last Edit: 05/04/09 at 07:07:07 by Azul Shiva »  

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Azul Shiva
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Re: Ambiophonics
Reply #14 - 05/04/09 at 07:07:57
 
Here is a slight modification to the simple sound barrier allowing more absorption material in it.
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