Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Decware Audio Forums
09/20/14 at 22:59:43


Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6
Send Topic Print
The NEW Radials are HERE! (Read 30451 times)
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 7513
Re: The NEW Radials are HERE!
Reply #30 - 03/15/09 at 03:13:14
 
Robert,

Thanks so much for sharing your impressions.  I WOULD be interested in some impressions of the Retail versions if you want to share them, especially any distinctive differences between the two. Thanks!

Glad you had such a positive experience!
Back to top
 
 

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
  IP Logged
musgofasa
Seasoned Member
****


Where is that
monkey? I want to
shoot something!

Posts: 556
Re: The NEW Radials are HERE!
Reply #31 - 03/15/09 at 15:29:02
 
Bob was using a decware pre-amp and an old Marantz receiver when we first got there. We listened to the ERR's on this for a bit and then switched to the retails for a comparison. After a bit he switched it over to a Decware Tori (not sure which version, but I know it has been modded) with no pre. The retails liked the tube amp much more than the SS. I don't think the ERR's were affected as much.

It is a very difficult thing to describe the differences in the two speakers though. The obvious difference is the front firing driver on the retail. I immediately wanted to get just a little further away from them and once I did the magic was right there. We were sitting extremely near field (3 or 4 ft I think) and they still sounded great. I believe the ERR's to be better for my room simply because I have two sets of seats. One is only 3 or so feet from the speakers and they will be much further apart than Bob's room. This could be a big factor with the retails. Not nearly as big as with other designs granted, but you will likely want to play with position and placement with the retail version whereas the ERR probably won't care if it is sittin on the arm of your chair. Bob was able to point out a few differences in how the retail version handled certain tracks of music that I likely would not have noticed, but the main difference I noticed was their character and presentation. While they have the magic that the radial design delivers, they also carried a bit of the conventional speaker sound.

My impression would be that the ERR's are a bit more laid back sounding than the Retail version. I would never say one was better than the other without using the room as a reference. I would also not pull a winner out without knowing the person's preferences in music. Lon I can tell you this, you will not be dissapointed in either set of speakers. I am willing to bet you will have a favorite, but that you will listen to one for a while and then switch to the others and then back and forth. I was continually wanting to swap them out and compare songs, but it is not so easy to move a speaker out of the way and plug in the next one repeatedly lol. As it is, I really liked both.

Maybe Bob can describe the differences in better terms when he has time. They both are excellent speakers and both are very beautiful.

Catch you guys later,
Robert
Back to top
 
 

The graveyard is full of important men
musgofasa   IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 7513
Re: The NEW Radials are HERE!
Reply #32 - 03/15/09 at 15:33:51
 
Thanks Robert.  Bob has pretty much explained the differences to me in a very similar manner.  I'll find out, soon enough!

:)
Back to top
 
 

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
  IP Logged
Stone Deaf
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 172
Re: The NEW Radials are HERE!
Reply #33 - 03/15/09 at 17:52:46
 
My only fear continues to be that I may not have enough power using the Taboo. 6 watts is at the bottom range according to the specs and I do like to listen to music at levels above a whisper. Guess I will find out in about a week or so. Smiley

Do they look sexy in black Bob? Smiley I have a neighbor who does some amazing inlay work who might inlay a bird or dove on the front of my ERRs. She did a neck inlay on a friend of mine's guitar that was awesome.
Back to top
 
 

My system: Decware Taboo, CSP2, ZP3, Pro-Ject RM 10 / Grado Reference Sonata, Adcom 700, ERR Radials, Lots of Mapleshade, Kimber and Herbie's stuff.
  IP Logged
musgofasa
Seasoned Member
****


Where is that
monkey? I want to
shoot something!

Posts: 556
Re: The NEW Radials are HERE!
Reply #34 - 03/15/09 at 18:34:57
 
Hey Stone Deaf,
I was lucky enough to be there and see the black paint. They do look sexy. It's an interesting contrast to the wood grain models. I don't know how much work was left to be done to them, but I know the new models have construction work to be done even after the finish work is applied.

I wouldn't be slightly worried about the power. The Tori amp was barely cracked open running the ERR's and they were well into the upper limits of listening.  (90+ db easily) If you wanted to crank them louder the tori probably had 2/3 of it's juice left. My bet is that your amp will drive them plenty.

Take care,
Robert
Back to top
 
 

The graveyard is full of important men
musgofasa   IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 7513
Re: The NEW Radials are HERE!
Reply #35 - 03/15/09 at 19:07:40
 
Richard, don't fret.  I'v used Radials with Selects, 2 watts per channel, and they could get too loud. I use my RL2s with Decware SE34 Monoblocks rated at six watts and never get to turn them anywhere near as loud as they could go.
Back to top
 
 

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
  IP Logged
cielspacing
Verified Member
**




Posts: 4
Re: The NEW Radials are HERE!
Reply #36 - 03/15/09 at 22:21:53
 
Pardon me for replying on a more conceptual note.

I was very happy to be present (thru the net) when Steve introduced his investigations with the radials quite some years ago. From the begining, the idea of speakers being built more "attuned" to the wave shape they were proyecting struck me as a very good and unique one. It comes to mind the water drop making waves on a pond...  
The early driver designs as also RL1 and RL1.5 and RL3, always fitted very well on the place that the drop actually touches the water.
The new ERRs also look like will not disturb the propagation of waves. its pyramid (but complexed) base shape, seems to just add to the design evolution without any detriment on the moevent of sound waves.

However just by seeing the "iT" pictures, it comes out as obvious that these boxes will get into the waves path. I agree that the colums do look stunning, possibly bearing an egyptian style... but what about baffle step? I do suspect that a considerable part of the Radials design success comes from low step obstruction and clean wave dispersion...

Have to admit that the ideas in this post have no real-experience basis since I haven't yet found the chance to own a Decware radial and part of it is because I've always longed (and still do) for a radial speaker rather focused on the lower/Mid frequencies to be part of a 3 way high output system, but so far hasn't happened...

Also I dont want to tarnish any development, but the "baffle step" question lingers on. Maybe too detailish maybe not
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Stone Deaf
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 172
Re: The NEW Radials are HERE!
Reply #37 - 03/15/09 at 23:12:53
 
Thanks for the support therapy guys Smiley I'm still a bit new to this mini-watt idea. My idea of small watt amps in the past was MacIntosh MC40 monoblocks or Marantz 8b. I did own a pair of ASL Wave 8 monoblocks I wish I still had.
Steve told me everything would work together I suppose I should trust him, he had almost an open check book to work with. I'm happy with everything so far and the radials will be the frosting on the cake.
I gave that black finish a lot of thought before I talked with Bob. I'll try to post a pic when I get them set up in the room.

Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 03/16/09 at 02:21:01 by Stone Deaf »  

My system: Decware Taboo, CSP2, ZP3, Pro-Ject RM 10 / Grado Reference Sonata, Adcom 700, ERR Radials, Lots of Mapleshade, Kimber and Herbie's stuff.
  IP Logged
ZYGI
Seasoned Member
****


HR-ONE

Posts: 642
Re: The NEW Radials are HERE!
Reply #38 - 03/17/09 at 04:26:08
 
Richard,

 I love the black, while they were very shinny, they had way to much orange peel for me. We sanded out the orange peel and got them ready to re coat.


Cielspacing,

  I think your idea of the  cylindrical grill on top of the pyramid would look like an Ohm speaker with out the grill, unfinished at best.

  I guess I don't understand your statement "it comes out as obvious that these boxes will get into the waves path" and how it pertains to  baffle step.

Just trying to understand what you are asking here.
BobZ

Back to top
 
 

All Decware amps and sources, Turning Point Audio speakers
  IP Logged
Stone Deaf
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 172
Re: The NEW Radials are HERE!
Reply #39 - 03/17/09 at 15:01:41
 
Thanks for the quality control. I'm guessing this will push them back another 3-4 days? I would rather have them looking as good as possible and I know you will do a great job.
Back to top
 
 

My system: Decware Taboo, CSP2, ZP3, Pro-Ject RM 10 / Grado Reference Sonata, Adcom 700, ERR Radials, Lots of Mapleshade, Kimber and Herbie's stuff.
  IP Logged
cielspacing
Verified Member
**




Posts: 4
Re: The NEW Radials are HERE!
Reply #40 - 03/17/09 at 17:31:55
 
BobZ

Went to see the Ohm speakers  http://www.sitesandsounds.us/eze/eze5/items/ohm_lined-up-walsh-small.jpg and what can I say? The grids are all square, identical to the new squared ERR grill.
Upon aesthetical comparison, the (RL's) cylinfrical grid wins by far regardless of the base shape and in my view reinforces the radial concept, but of course our difference here is entirely subjective and purely aesthetic.
I would agree in that the radial's pyrami-ed base shape looks (and pbbly sounds) much better than any Ohm base shape.

On the baffle step question, there are good sources of detailed info. I liked: http://www.speakerdesign.net/understand.html or http://www.t-linespeakers.org/tech/bafflestep/

And with the risk of going off-topic here, a few guidelines have helped me when judging spkrs enclosures baffle step wise:
-Open air mid-high spkrs are sort of ideal, even better than infinity designs (a driver mounted on a big wall) mainly because additional to the baffle step where there are diffractions that add (and then not) to the original sound waves, the open design does not suffer from surface/size derived diffractions.
-As on a river, different velocities of the water running near and far from its sides, interfere with each other, the actual box edge form is important and thus roundovers or curved angles have been sprouting on leading brands (B&W comes to mind) to reduce cabinet edge diffraction.
-Spkrs boxes are better thin than fat, ideally not thicker than the width of the driver itself. If you want SPL it would be better to build taller rather than fatter boxes.

I assume the IT enclosure theoretically regulate Bass response (increase) so it would compensate BStep.
Nevertheless in the broad perspective, I've always considered the radial driver design a good advance in the quest of better wave radiation.
Radial loudspeakers particularly in the ERRs pyrami-ed cabinet look like a new point of design in this quest... Yes, the waves move vertically here, but this actually helps eliminate the floor as another source of wave interference. (This is why always thought of Steve's radial drivers as perfect for Low freqs... but this really is off-topic). Hope it helps.
Nacho
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 03/17/09 at 19:03:04 by cielspacing »  
  IP Logged
ZYGI
Seasoned Member
****


HR-ONE

Posts: 642
Re: The NEW Radials are HERE!
Reply #41 - 03/18/09 at 00:07:50
 
Nacho,

 This was the Ohm look I was thinking of    http://www.ohmspeakers.com/store_item_list.cfm?TYPE=Walsh%20Series&cart_ID=31762...

I think my misunderstanding of your question had more to do with translation than the actual question, sorry about that.


BobZ

Back to top
 
 

All Decware amps and sources, Turning Point Audio speakers
  IP Logged
cielspacing
Verified Member
**




Posts: 4
Re: The NEW Radials are HERE!
Reply #42 - 03/18/09 at 23:59:16
 
BobZ
Pardon my english, not being my native language. Often find myself trying to correct posts, guessing if it actually says what was intended... And also I apologize for bringing here a design talk, that might very well be very minor in perspective of all the technical aspects that a rather complex speaker like the IT -no doubt- has involved. This subject pbbly belongs to a different thread and I'll leave it as it is.

And all in all, the ERRs and the ITs seem to be very different speakers for different rooms, environments and ultimately different needs. Surely each one has different strengths, sharing the fact that both are efforts to bring out the radials to the audiences. I definitely second that.

On the ERRS round grills option, I see your point (@ the Ohm's discontinued products) and I agree that they dont look as good, only because in that case the cylinders are smaller in diameter than the base they stand and hence look sort of weak.
Alternatively on the RLs, the cylindrical grill size always fit very well their base and looked proportionate size-wise. On the pyrami-ed base it appears that the same proportionality could be achieved.

/// On second thought, the shape of the ERR's grill could follow, mirror, or fractalize the complex angles the base actually has in its lower part and thus, reinforce the less-parallels concept, at the same time "rounding" the grill squared shape that to some of us might find "not so radial".
Just an opinion.

Nacho

Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 03/19/09 at 00:07:56 by cielspacing »  
  IP Logged
ZYGI
Seasoned Member
****


HR-ONE

Posts: 642
Re: The NEW Radials are HERE!
Reply #43 - 03/19/09 at 03:50:32
 
Nacho,

 Not a problem, I still  have a problem with English, and it is my native language.

Talking about the design isn't a problem, I welcome good ideas, Robert (musgofasa) had a pretty good idea for the ERR's grills this weekend,  with his idea, they would not require any sewing, but would be harder to get to gel with the rest of the cabinet (in my mind anyway) Either way I liked the look he came up with.

Paul P (RFZQuest) had come up with a whole new concept look for the IT project, which was a profoundly different look which I loved, and I can assure you that some day we will build a speaker like it or very close to it, as it was pretty awesome.  I've just got to figure out how to build it, or just  take the time to do so, but time seems to be in short supply these days.

 The final look of the top of the IT's came from Steve Deckert, unfortunately  for Steve, most of the idea he had come up with was for the ERR's, but there was just no better place for the tweeter than were it is now located, when mounted in its current position, like the RL-1.5s,  the transition form Radial driver to the tweeter is seamless. Steve also had had some new tweeter brackets made for the new ERR's, which I believe the extra mass the bracket possess has a good effect on the focus of the top end. The ERR's should also arrive with the tweeters with the exact same angle and location as they were, when they leave my shop, which in the past we have had tweeters actually go through the Radial driver itself, something no one wants to see when they open they're new speakers and can't listen to them.

   I'm proud to say, we have not had a damaged speaker shipped out from here in almost three years. Here is Steve's idea on how to be sure you package something so it won't be damaged in shipment......"Box the speaker like you think it should be boxed, get a ladder, climb up on your roof and throw the box down on your concrete driveway, if you can do that, and there is no damage, it should be good enough to make it to the destination"!!!! I've never done this by the way, in fear of me falling off the roof and suffering bodily damage.

BobZ
Back to top
 
 

All Decware amps and sources, Turning Point Audio speakers
  IP Logged
musgofasa
Seasoned Member
****


Where is that
monkey? I want to
shoot something!

Posts: 556
Re: The NEW Radials are HERE!
Reply #44 - 03/19/09 at 13:00:14
 
LOL

I had that idea on the ride home from Bob's house, but as soon as I had it, I had the thought that it would not only be impossible to make fit, but that the only way it would look useable would be on a speaker with a painted finish. With the woodgrain, I cannot see any way to make that grille look anything less than hideous.

Speaking of shipping, I work for UPS and have used another of Steve's addages when talking to my customers. I remember him saying he boxed his stuff so it could be shot out of a cannon into a brick wall and if it survived that, it would survive transit. After seeing the trouble Bob goes to in packaging his stuff, I have no doubts it would not only survive the fall from the roof, but likely make a large hole in the driveway without suffering even a scratch. The hole it would make in the brick wall could be used for advertising though, lol




Back to top
 
 

The graveyard is full of important men
musgofasa   IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6
Send Topic Print