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NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview (Read 12449 times)
Steve Deckert
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If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

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NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
08/23/05 at 01:04:13
 
We are now ready to start producing the new TORII mk II.

The price is $2495.00 with tubes and lifetime warranty and 30 day money back guarentee.

Since I started indicating I would be doing this amp over 10 months ago many people have expressed the kind of interest that goes like this:  "I'll buy one - regardless of what it turns out to be."  Well, I didn't keep a list of these people so I'm hoping they were mostly from these forums.  I know there were at least 10, and I know I mentioned we were shooting for a price point of $1995.00.  We didn't make that price point, but you have to trust me when I tell you the additional $500.00 improved the amp so much it that it was worth it several times over.  Nevertheless we have decided to offer the first 10 amplifiers to forum members at $1995.00.  I still have 7 left at the time of this posting.

I am making this offer before I put link the amps web pages to the site.  That means you also get a sneak preview before it goes public.  

Here is the link to the new TORII Mk II

http://decware.com/newsite/TORII.htm

This amplifier will be demonstrated at this years Decfest.

Turn around on this first 10 amps will be 4 to 6 weeks from time of order.

Thanks,

Steve Deckert
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brettjm
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #1 - 08/23/05 at 04:08:19
 


This is absolutely beautiful.
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Corey
Ex Member



Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #2 - 08/23/05 at 04:28:48
 
Questions:

- How much power does this amp draw?  

- Which sounds better with the new tone control, the HDT MK I or MK II on this amp?

- If the HDT MK II sounds better can the MK I be modified into an MK II be myself.

Take care,

Corey

p.s. Is it just me or does anybody else have a hard on from this amp?
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homeyhomes
Ex Member



Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #3 - 08/23/05 at 05:10:01
 
I dont know about a hardon but I do believe my
testosterone reserves elevated as I was drooling
over the photos.  I definitely prefer all the cable
connections on the upper part of the chassis versus
at the back.  I also like the sleek low profile chassis
with those curvaseous curves.  & the lucious glass
bottles glowing with passion as the temperature
rises, exciting the electrons into a frenzy as the woofers
downstream pulsate in and out, in and out, in and out, in and out...then all of a sudden it happens....there's a ringing sound.
.....it's the telephone.....& the neighbors are telling you to
turn the fricken volume down!!!
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60ndown
Ex Member



Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #4 - 08/23/05 at 05:15:41
 
'sexy' pics this time, sexy and classy Grin sexy Grin
a good thing about not being rich is that i cant have everything i want, and therefore my life is full of excitement and antisipation, i;ll have to wait to own one of these....one day i will, and im happy to wait Wink
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« Last Edit: 08/23/05 at 05:21:40 by 60ndown »  
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Glen_B
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #5 - 08/23/05 at 11:37:05
 
BRING     THE    NEKKED    TUBE   GIRL    BACK....................................................PLEASE Smiley
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« Last Edit: 08/23/05 at 12:43:21 by Glen_B »  
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morrisvet2003
Ex Member



Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #6 - 08/23/05 at 11:50:15
 
Very nice, but a bit expensive to me  >:(

Regards
filippo
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Nievate
Ex Member



Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #7 - 08/23/05 at 12:55:06
 
The price of this new rascal could be covered with the sale of some of those treasures your holding on to.

My problem is that I have such a hard time parting with anything.  Even if it don't work I think I'll get it fixed at some point.  The term "Pack Rat" comes to mind.

Might be that I need a good talking to by Alf.

dennis (has wood)
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Pyewacket
Ex Member



Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #8 - 08/23/05 at 14:59:07
 
THAT is going to be my first tube amp...

I have looked at, lusted after and coveted a bunch of really cool stuff on the net over the last couple of years and to be honest the Torii I almost did it, but this... It's over.

Done like a biscuit.

Cheesy  ;D  :D  ;D  :D  ;D
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selmerdave
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #9 - 08/23/05 at 16:10:14
 
I have to say that I'm a little disappointed with this as the new Decware direction.  I don't mean to rain on the parade, I'm sure it sounds amazing, but it sure is a step toward every other audio manufacturer out there.  I mean, how many SET's are there out there for under $1k?  A couple.  How many higher powered amps are there for above $2k?  Many.  What's the difference?  I'm not quite sure.  Of course with Decware you're getting point-to-point wiring and it's not made in China, which means a lot to me, but really there are several other manufacturers that could say the same thing.  And for $2k + I'm sure they all sound good as they should.  Does this amp sound that much better than an Aronov?  I know Steve is going for the top but everybody is claiming to do that, so it's a matter of how much money you have and who you believe.  It's a much different thing to offer stuff that is at least 90% of the top at 10% of the price.  Of course the Zen amps and to a certain extent the Taboo do that, but I hope that will continue to be the direction of Decware, as that is truly an outstanding feat that sets it apart from other manufacturers.  Of course it's just my taste but I enjoyed how good an amp could sound with the $.03 Tracons as opposed to spending $15 on Auricaps for the last 1% of sound.  At least as a philosophy and a general approach to the amp as admittedly I went in and ripped out the Tracons for Jensens.;)

Anyhow, I wish Steve all the best with this amp but I hope he'll continue to embarass the higher priced stuff with budget products that get you 90% (or more) of the way there.

Dave
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homeyhomes
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #10 - 08/23/05 at 16:37:19
 
I dont think Steve is changing directions here.
I think He just wants to have something for all
those low efficiency speakers that are out there.

although It does look as though some of that money
went for looks rather than sound. for instance the
lazer engraving & custom lighting effects & the more
sculptured chassis.  But If someone is going to spend
well over 2K for a piece of gear,  they are probably going
to want it to at least look like it cost that much.

I don't think a white painted box like the original Zen amp
would be apropriate for the new Torii II Amp.
& I think if Steve really wanted, He could have took it much
further (Eye candy dept.)  than He did.

The price is not out of line for a nice 25watt PP amp.
and don't forget,  the SE83 sig mono's were just under
the price of the New Torii & sported under ten watts/p/ch.

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Pyewacket
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #11 - 08/23/05 at 16:53:13
 
Dave, I don't think it's raining on any parade, it's just another direction.  I have lurked these boards for some time now and to be honest the whole set thing never got through to me.  Granted I have never listened to a set kit good or otherwise.  While that may sound incredibly ignorant, the reason I've always come back to this site is the passion that the owner and his clients have had for the equipment and the music.  

After two years plus wandering the net checking everything tube from the down right silly in extravagance to the Zen simplicity found right here I keep finding myself drawn to three sites that the owners have that passion and are willing to share that with their customers.  Decware being the first, there is a lad in Canada that builds amps and his company is called Ideal Innovations, and the third is an Aussy firm called Supratek.

I really do think there is a karma thing that goes along with this hobby though and for me it seems the strongest here and after sitting on the fence for so long that amp just has it for me.  Besides all that I actually can understand the way Steve explains things.  I think I've read every white paper he has written at least two or three times and I've built a couple of his sub designs and have been amazed at the results.

And the icing on the cake... He has a hot rod Monte.  My kinda guy.
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DeVon Deckert
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #12 - 08/23/05 at 17:22:32
 
Just posting an update..........only 3 left at the $1995.00 price.  :D
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Nievate
Ex Member



Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #13 - 08/23/05 at 17:35:54
 
DeVon Deckert is a mean woman of the first order!  Being one who has been on the fence for a long time I just don't know what to do.

Talk about lighting a fire under my posterior!

MEAN WOMAN!!!!!

dennis
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troutsnook
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #14 - 08/23/05 at 17:40:16
 
It always amazes me how cheap some folks in this hobby can be. Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry

I read the white paper and with everything that goes into this amp, $2500 bucks is cheap. †I challange anyone to come up with a choke and tube regulated power supply with a price tag anywhere close to this. †I like to save money like the next guy, but this product is already cheap for what is included. †I would have to hear it to make a final judgement, but if it is as good as advertised it would be a steal at the price. †;D

I met Steve a couple of years ago at the Decware shop to listen to the Radials. †Steve agreed to open the shop on a Sunday afternoon - I was traveling to Milwaukee - and we spent 3 hours talking and listening. †Super nice and honest in my opinion - and has a good ear for music. †I have not purchased anything from Decware - yet - but I have confidence in his ears and the quality of his gear. †The forum is a great exchange for audio experiences. †The company does have to make a profit to stay in business, otherwise there won't be any Zen Taboo's to enjoy. †IF you are a DIY with access to all the parts and are handy with mechanical abilities and the patience to come up with a final circuit that works - maybe you could do it for less. †Maybe not, if you count the time spent doing it. Cry Cry

Sorry for the soapbox, but sometimes we lose sight of real value with the quest to get more for less.

Bob Tongue
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Nievate
Ex Member



Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #15 - 08/23/05 at 17:41:26
 
Would you take two well behaved Dachshunds for part payment?
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DeVon Deckert
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #16 - 08/23/05 at 18:02:41
 
Sorry Dennis. †As much of a dog lover as I am. †I already have 2 Basset Hounds that eat everything in sight. †:)
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Yo-Han
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #17 - 08/23/05 at 18:38:09
 
i heard poeple talking about sellin' an arm or a leg for an amp(as a matter of speaking)..never a pair of dogs doh LOL  ;)

2500$ ain't easey for me too to cough up,even here in social securety wonderland Belgium .. if this amp delivers what Steves promisese:nudity,the music doh Cheesy , and ease of drive..it can shure be worth it ...you'll find a lot of other pp tube amps for that money..BUT dual mono??? and build with such care?

again looks like build to last a century..nice looking amp..if i only could get into a jet, and hear it  ;)

PS i know 2 diy'ers in Belgium who offer simular amps or designs and their price is, or would be about the same with those certain  hi demands of musical fidelity...one is slightly cheaper ,but so is his housing..but none build em with the rigidety of decware gear,easy to see

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Nievate
Ex Member



Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #18 - 08/23/05 at 18:59:30
 
I sure hope no one thought my "tongue in cheek" comment about DeVon was serious.  She is a gem for sure.

As to the dogs, all three of us would be heart broken if we were split up.

Now, if I could find someone who had their heart set on a Jolida amp...........

dennis
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Corey
Ex Member



Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #19 - 08/23/05 at 19:05:43
 
Shoot! I just can't swing 2 grand right now.

Homey,

1/2 pound of raw oysters for 4 days and raw eggs will put your testosterone at the level where you react like me to this amp.

Cor
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selmerdave
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #20 - 08/23/05 at 19:08:04
 
[quote author=troutsnook  link=1124759053/0#14 date=1124815216]I read the white paper and with everything that goes into this amp, $2500 bucks is cheap.  I challange anyone to come up with a choke and tube regulated power supply with a price tag anywhere close to this.  I like to save money like the next guy, but this product is already cheap for what is included.  I would have to hear it to make a final judgement, but if it is as good as advertised it would be a steal at the price. [/quote]

Bob, I'm not criticizing the price at all, it seems fair to me.  Yes you are paying a good chunk for cosmetics, but I think that 99 out of 100 people would rather pay for cosmetics with something in that price bracket.  I've got no problem with that.  I'm just saying that there are really a LOT of amps putting out similar power with similar high-quality parts for similar money.  That is a market that Decware was not previously in, even with the Signature Monos.  I think it was much easier to stick out as a company that embarassed all of those by offering comparable performance for a small price.  

Dave
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Corey
Ex Member



Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #21 - 08/23/05 at 19:15:50
 
Dave,

I don't understand your post. You speak like Decware now only sells this amp. Last time I checked they sold:

- 2 watts SET
- 6 watts SET
- 6 watts SEP
- 25 watts PPP

Take care,

Corey
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selmerdave
Ex Member



Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #22 - 08/23/05 at 19:27:12
 
Yes Corey, I guess given the ideals outlined in his (older) white papers I am surprised that a 25w push-pull amplifier is the "flagship" of the line, and it makes me wonder what's in the future.  I hope there will be more products that do more with less.  Don't get me wrong, I think Decware is a great company and if I was in the market for such an amp this might be the one I would get, I just don't want him to forget the old ideals.

Dave
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Corey
Ex Member



Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #23 - 08/23/05 at 19:38:31
 
Dave,

The future is lots of 2 watt, 6 watt and 25 watt sales.  ;)

Corey
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Pyewacket
Ex Member



Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #24 - 08/23/05 at 20:44:37
 
Man, the Monte's not ready for sale yet and I've been spending mad money on the house getting it ready to sell.  Would love to get in on the discount but it just don't look like that's going to happen just now.   Angry

Regardless, one of those will be mine by yearend!!

Cheesy
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60ndown
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #25 - 08/23/05 at 21:40:42
 
[quote author=selmerdave  link=1124759053/15#22 date=1124821632]Yes Corey, I guess given the ideals outlined in his (older) white papers I am surprised that a 25w push-pull amplifier is the "flagship" of the line, and it makes me wonder what's in the future. †I hope there will be more products that do more with less. †Don't get me wrong, I think Decware is a great company and if I was in the market for such an amp this might be the one I would get, I just don't want him to forget the old ideals.

Dave [/quote]


im curious dave, what kind of amp / product do you think would have been a good addition to the dec line in plae of this amp? and dont be vague, speify amp, dac, speaker, something?
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hurdy_gurdyman
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #26 - 08/23/05 at 21:52:31
 
As far as trading in the pet dog goes, some might think I'm crazy, but I wouldn't trade my husky in for ANY amp ever made (or any other material thing.) Some things in life are just more important than new toys.

Dave Cheesy
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J_Rock
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #27 - 08/23/05 at 22:01:11
 
Are there any left for 1999.95?

Also, I think you guys should all ease off, for one, Dave just stated an opinion and people are getting mad at him.  

Secondly, Steve has his own goals I am sure, and none of us know them.  Whos to say this is all there is going to be? Perhaps Steve just made this amp for the power and marketshare it can now provide.  Perhaps now he will focus on making the most with the least possible.
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« Last Edit: 08/23/05 at 22:05:20 by j_rock777 »  
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selmerdave
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #28 - 08/23/05 at 22:30:40
 
[quote author=60ndown  link=1124759053/15#25 date=1124829642]im curious dave, what kind of amp / product do you think would have been a good addition to the dec line in plae of this amp? and dont be vague, speify amp, dac, speaker, something? [/quote]

I suppose a more bare-bones version of the same thing, same tube compliment and general design but without the cost-no-object approaches like the paralleled coupling caps.  Maybe a single power supply since there's so much iron involved and a more basic chassis.  Closer to the point of maximizing the point of diminishing returns.  Something that would satisfy the needs of those with less efficient speakers for considerably less than the price of the usual 25w PP amp out there.  But hey, it's not my company and maybe that would be a really stupid idea, no doubt Steve considered that along the way to arriving at this amp.  Again I'm just hoping he continues to offer products to those of us looking to maximize the dollar.

Dave
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WEEZ
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #29 - 08/23/05 at 22:48:47
 
It is clear that a lot of design work and thought went into the new amplifier.

I don't see the $2500 price as too high at all. (the introductory price of $2000 is a deal in today's market, IMHO).

Has anyone priced other hand built works like this for less?

Have a look at Convergent, Joule Electra, or Berning and then re-think the price of the TOR11 MK11. Or Audio Research- or even Conrad Johnson, Cary, or Unison.

Those of you who have 95- 100db speakers may not be interested- and that's cool. But for folks who have 87- 90db speakers could use a little 'Zen' in their systems too. †:)

( By the way, I think it looks like a work of art- even without the naked lady )

WEEZ Grin
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DrN
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #30 - 08/23/05 at 23:43:05
 
Great looking amp for sure. I wouldn't change a thing.
Priced right too. Intro price is great too.

Lets see if I could sell my Monos........
Naw, I can't, my system is sounding kickass!

Looking forward to some listening reviews though since 7 are sold already.

Den
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troutsnook
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #31 - 08/23/05 at 23:52:58
 
Dave,

I just want to clarify that I was not yelling at you. †My point was alot of folks in this hobby don't understand what it takes to build something like this amp and assume it can be done for less. †Certainly in China, it could be, but I doubt the sound would be as good. †You did say that there are other amps like this in the price range. †Would you mind being specific. †The only other amps I know of - I certainly am not all knowing - are some hand mades my Ed Logan here in Orlando. †His amps with tube regulation sell for considerably more and sound fantastic. †Just curious. ???

Bob
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Steve Deckert
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If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 2328
Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #32 - 08/24/05 at 01:34:30
 
[quote author=selmerdave  link=1124759053/15#28 date=1124832640]

I suppose a more bare-bones version of the same thing, same tube compliment and general design but without the cost-no-object approaches like the paralleled coupling caps. †Maybe a single power supply since there's so much iron involved and a more basic chassis. †Closer to the point of maximizing the point of diminishing returns. †Something that would satisfy the needs of those with less efficient speakers for considerably less than the price of the usual 25w PP amp out there. †But hey, it's not my company and maybe that would be a really stupid idea, no doubt Steve considered that along the way to arriving at this amp. †Again I'm just hoping he continues to offer products to those of us looking to maximize the dollar.

Dave
[/quote]

Dave,

I understand where you are coming from - and my positioning this amp as sort of our flagship might make it look as though we've abandoned our original ideals. †I can assure you that's not the case. †

I also understand that the market is saturated with 20 to 80 watt push pull amps, many that appear to be pretty good. †And for what they are many of them aren't too shabby but also many of them simply suck.

The last think we want to do is design ANOTHER inexpensive pushpull amp like the bare bones version you eluded to because honestly there are too many out there that would sound comparable.

Push pull amps typically sound like push pull amps. †That's what made SETs so popular. †With the exception of dynamics and weight I don't know of any push pull amps below 10 grand that sound better then a good SET amp. †

One of the problems with the difference in fidelity between the two is simply that too many audiophiles aren't set up to hear it. †They make two mistakes - one is they position their speakers too close to the wall to get any real depth in the soundstage and two-they use inefficient complex speakers that can't reveal the inner side of the music the way simpler speaker can. †Because of this, when they compare an SET with no feedback that is capable of unlimited soundstage to a push pull amp with feedback that only has 6 feet of depth no mater what.... they hear the depth of each as exactly the same. †And of course the inner detail the SET offers is lost on the busy speakers so again it sounds the same as the push pull.

After building our single ended amps for 10 years I have become spoiled by the superiority of the Single ended amps ability to communicate music to the listener. †My goal was to make this amplifier sound as good as the SET amps in all categories which frankly makes it non-comparable to all of the push pull amps presently offered anywhere near the price point. †Ironically the higher price points that go past the $4500.00 mark are usually higher power which automatically take them out of the competition because they can't sound as good.

The bottom line is doesn't matter what the topology is, push pull, single ended, utlralinear and so on, all that matters is does it have the amazing clarity and holographic highly focused imaging with zero listener fatigue like all Decware amps, and the answer is - yes.

Were now at 100.00 per watt of killer fidelity with this new amp, whereas before with the signature monoblocks were were at 1000.00 per watt. †Not to mention the money and time you'll save not having to find appropriate speakers. †

I have no plans for future Decware amps, the current line up is all anyone serious about listening would ever need.

Hope this helps - and yes it really does sound that much better then it's competition as time will tell.

Steve
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jj420
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #33 - 08/24/05 at 02:34:59
 
Quote:
I have no plans for future Decware amps, the current line up is all anyone serious about listening would ever need.



no more amps means either you're going on vacation, or focusing the mighty mind elsewhere...

care to drop a hint as to where you're going?
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matchstikman
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #34 - 08/24/05 at 02:57:25
 
[quote author=Steve Deckert  link=1124759053/30#32 date=1124843670]I have no plans for future Decware amps, the current line up is all anyone serious about listening would ever need. [/quote]

Let the speculating begin.
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selmerdave
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #35 - 08/24/05 at 04:50:06
 
Thanks for your response, Steve, I'd sure like to hear it.

Dave
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mullman
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #36 - 08/24/05 at 14:27:10
 
Enough is enough!

Like any business, Decware is attempting to broaden its appeal to people possibly not current customers.

Many people have legacy speakers they love of moderate to low efficiency and a 1.8w SV83 based amp just is not gonna do it.  Personally I love Steve's low power designs and I would rather work around the first watt.  But I really do not think Decware is abandoning their old mantra or anything.

I applaud Decware's move to look at other areas and I look forward to hearing this new PP amp one day!

Kudos Steve.
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Yo-Han
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #37 - 08/24/05 at 14:28:51
 
Quote:
 The bottom line is doesn't matter what the topology is, push pull, single ended, utlralinear and so on, all that matters is does it have the amazing clarity and holographic highly focused imaging with zero listener fatigue like all Decware amps, and the answer is - yes.



hehe should one hear even more

...i think the decware range is complete..there are SOOOO many people with 'less' efficient speakers out there,now they can try decware too..I've heard amazing conventional 3 way speakers lately (there are not many!)..,same thing here...you have good hi efficiency speakers and bad..good 2 - 3 - 4 way with complicated cross over and (lot's of) bad..


Comparisons?For Europe...hmmm, not many pp dual mono amps here for 2000 euros(2500$ about now)

for 1500 you have jolida, antique soundlabs, vincent tac,primaluna,affordable valve company..the whole chino-european armada..non are comparable..comparable would be UK quad etc..these retail  a lot more then 2500!

ps off course the dogs are jokes...i thought you were gonna rob the  petstore Wink

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Falconer
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #38 - 08/24/05 at 17:12:32
 
Can anyone give an opinion how this amp would match up with the HDT speakers ???
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Mike W
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #39 - 08/24/05 at 17:15:09
 
25 tube watts + 96db would certainly equal very loud Smiley
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60ndown
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #40 - 08/24/05 at 17:41:29
 
[quote author=Steve Deckert  link=1124759053/30#32 date=1124843670]

Dave,

I understand where you are coming from - and my positioning this amp as sort of our flagship might make it look as though we've abandoned our original ideals. †I can assure you that's not the case. †

I also understand that the market is saturated with 20 to 80 watt push pull amps, many that appear to be pretty good. †And for what they are many of them aren't too shabby but also many of them simply suck.

The last think we want to do is design ANOTHER inexpensive pushpull amp like the bare bones version you eluded to because honestly there are too many out there that would sound comparable.

Push pull amps typically sound like push pull amps. †That's what made SETs so popular. †With the exception of dynamics and weight I don't know of any push pull amps below 10 grand that sound better then a good SET amp. †

One of the problems with the difference in fidelity between the two is simply that too many audiophiles aren't set up to hear it. †They make two mistakes - one is they position their speakers too close to the wall to get any real depth in the soundstage and two-they use inefficient complex speakers that can't reveal the inner side of the music the way simpler speaker can. †Because of this, when they compare an SET with no feedback that is capable of unlimited soundstage to a push pull amp with feedback that only has 6 feet of depth no mater what.... they hear the depth of each as exactly the same. †And of course the inner detail the SET offers is lost on the busy speakers so again it sounds the same as the push pull.

After building our single ended amps for 10 years I have become spoiled by the superiority of the Single ended amps ability to communicate music to the listener. †My goal was to make this amplifier sound as good as the SET amps in all categories which frankly makes it non-comparable to all of the push pull amps presently offered anywhere near the price point. †Ironically the higher price points that go past the $4500.00 mark are usually higher power which automatically take them out of the competition because they can't sound as good.

The bottom line is doesn't matter what the topology is, push pull, single ended, utlralinear and so on, all that matters is does it have the amazing clarity and holographic highly focused imaging with zero listener fatigue like all Decware amps, and the answer is - yes.

Were now at 100.00 per watt of killer fidelity with this new amp, whereas before with the signature monoblocks were were at 1000.00 per watt. †Not to mention the money and time you'll save not having to find appropriate speakers. †

I have no plans for future Decware amps, the current line up is all anyone serious about listening would ever need.

Hope this helps - and yes it really does sound that much better then it's competition as time will tell.

Steve
[/quote]

nice-understood- agreed- can you make a car amp next please steve?(now your not busy?).....please,........ able to run tri-mode 100 wpc to the speakers and about 500+ for the sub-with the new amps characteristics-for under a grand! Cheesy
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« Last Edit: 08/24/05 at 17:42:32 by 60ndown »  
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veryoldcat
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #41 - 08/24/05 at 18:58:54
 
All,

The new Torii certainly opens up the range of usable speaker designs to (not quite) but almost anything. At a different juncture I would've got one.

I don't feel stuck with my speakers (Parker 98's), but it certainly took a leap of faith into unknown territory (based on my fascination with the sound of the se84cs) to go to the effort to diy the 2 ohm Parkers and basically throw away $3000 dollars worth of other speaker designs and mothball tons of old equipment to direct everything towards maximizing a 2 watt amp!

Quite a few of the best speaker options with the Decware low-powered set's are in the realm of diy, and speaker design in-the-know types. The non-diy options are ALSO in the realm of requiring a leap of faith, as the speaker options are often mostly directed towards ONLY these specialized low powered amps, or at least that would be the perception.

So, if you have misgivings about certain type speaker designs for the sort of things you listen to, you could be out of luck. For example, I have some misgivings about single driver designs (and even horns) for listening to symphonic music. Those misgivings might disappear if I had a *throw away 2K* to spend for experimenting as well as the diy time, but that's asking a lot of the average person, I think.

This amp levels the field quite a bit. I probably would have bought it if it was around when I was rebuilding my system, particularly if it comes so close to the magic of my little zen, as Steve believes it does. Now I'm in a different direction that would be costly to change, but before having changed everything to fit the se84cs, the Torii Mk II would have been much easier to own. I'd really like to hear it if I could afford the trip to Illinois!

Karl
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MUSICLOVER
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #42 - 08/25/05 at 03:31:34
 
Long time lurker posting (Actually, I was a member before but couldnt remember my screen name!!)

I first purchased a used 84C in Jan 01.  Mated with my Klipsch Fortes, I was in heaven!  I ran a Jolida 601 CDP direct, practically abandoned my jazz record collection to CD's.  I ended up buying a Select in June 01 (Steve, the serial# was 90 or 91, sent to M.H in Long Beach!)

This set-up replaced a CJ PV-5/CJ MV-75 with Spendor SP 1/2 Speakers.  The clarity, soundstage, imaging, jump, excitement, and realness with the Select/Klipsch combo was unreal!  BUT:

The most beautiful music I consistently ever heard to date has been through the Spendors.  Yes, the "loosey" box, BBC heritage, "British" sound, 3-way (!!)  crossover(!!!), standmount 1/2's consistently hit me emotionally. I cant recall all the times tear came to my eyes! And the times I cried. The times I played shadow vibes, drums, trumpets, pianos, violins, etc in my house.  Despite the veiled CJ gear, Despite the rich but, in my view, rounded old Tara Lab Quantum cables and speaker wires

So, why did I go to Klipsch?  Because I had an audio flashback to my military days when I ran Klipsch with Carvers!!  I know...I was young.  But the liveness of the classic Klipsch is unparralled!  I then had a sea change to tubes, and ultimately to Spendors. I've think I've found my musical and audio grail (I know, famous last words!!)

What does this have to do with the Torii MKII? Simple:  NOW I will go back to my Spendors because there is apparently an amp that will do them justice in the Zen manner. Now I know the imnportance of cables and wire (to me, at least!) The new Torri will allow me to return to the speakers that stole my heart.  I know there are many other amps that, technically and spec wise, would fit the bill.  But I'm sure of the Decware sound (particularly the Zen sound the Steve says will come through in the new Torii.)  And I know I'm sure of the beauty of thre classic Spendor 1/2 as it relates to me.  

The horror of bypassing Radials, The Horns, Parkers, Bob Brines, Omegas, OB and countless other outstanding single drive and/or crossover-less speakers for the Spendors?  Yes!  Thanks to the new Torii.  If it performs as claimed, Steve will take a massive leap forward in providing Zen magic to a broader, perhaps different, but no less passionate group of audiophiles....and music lovers!

Now, if you excuse me, I have some banks to rob in order to buy the Torii!







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barfind
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #43 - 08/25/05 at 03:53:38
 
Welcome Musiclover. The new PP amp will win alot of hearts that have a passion for speakers that dont fall into the "high" efficeny stable. Your Spendor speakers as well as many many others will now have a look in. Smart thinking from Steve, not only a great engineer, but a great bussinesman too.

Nigel
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Lon
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #44 - 08/25/05 at 10:38:18
 
Welcome back ML, and good points.
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Quan
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #45 - 08/25/05 at 13:19:56
 
Hi Steve, let me know if there still any left.  I want one for $1995.  Thanks!

Art
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144cubits
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #46 - 08/25/05 at 14:25:26
 
[quote author=selmerdave  link=1124759053/0#9 date=1124809814]†It's a much different thing to offer stuff that is at least 90% of the top at 10% of the price. †Of course the Zen amps and to a certain extent the Taboo do that, [/quote]

Dave, can you elaborate a little more on this comment about the Taboo? Are you referring to its price point or the performance of the amp compared to the C.

Thanx
Fred
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Steve Deckert
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #47 - 08/25/05 at 14:48:59
 
[quote author=Quan  link=1124759053/45#45 date=1124972396]Hi Steve, let me know if there still any left. †I want one for $1995. †Thanks!

Art [/quote]

Call (309) 671 2428 and talk to DeVon.  

Thanks,

Steve
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selmerdave
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #48 - 08/25/05 at 14:58:19
 
Fred,

I'm talking about the price point, no longer dirt cheap but still pretty reasonable in the realm of hifi.  Of course again, I'm not questioning the value at all, I'm sure it's excellent value.  I just like the bare-bones approach of the Zen C and while it's not necessarily the ultimate amp it's pretty darn good and dirt-cheap at the same time.

But the truth is we don't need another set of Wave 8's (very cheap but not really very good at all), and the present products offer a variety of high-end sound at reasonable prices.  I respect Steve's decisions in the direction he wants to go and upon further consideration I'm actually having a hard time coming up with an amp that is really competitive with the Torii II.

Dave
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144cubits
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #49 - 08/25/05 at 15:25:59
 
Thanx for the clarification Dave. The reason for my question is that I just ordered the Taboo based on the reviews I'd read on this website. I just sold my ZEN C-EX and am breathlessly waiting for the call.

Ironically I'm listening to a pair of Wave 8's which I modded with Auricaps and some resistors as my first adventure into the world of Tube DIY. They sounded terrific...that is until I heard the ZEN Cheesy
Fred
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boead
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #50 - 08/26/05 at 14:38:47
 
Steve,

Do you have plans to make something like it as an integrated? All it really needs is a pre-out (for a sub) and a second or third input.  Hell, even just a pre-out for the sub and Iíd use a good quality switch box to change sources.

This amp is almost exactly what I have been waiting for.

Are there any left? Although itís sort of a bad time for me. My audio gear is boxed up. I just moved and have part of a 2 car garage that needs to be turned into a listening room. Itíll be at least two or three months will I get it done. Till them Iím banished to the Home Theater for my listening.

I want the freedom to try other speakers and the Zen C is just so limiting for speaker choices. This TORII MkII would just sit in a box for week and weeks before I could even try it.

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hurdy_gurdyman
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #51 - 08/28/05 at 16:15:24
 
[quote author=boead  link=1124759053/45#50 date=1125063527]This TORII MkII would just sit in a box for week and weeks before I could even try it.

[/quote]Now that would be a real test of self discipline and will power.

Dave Cheesy
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Steve Deckert
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Feedback
Reply #52 - 10/13/05 at 13:12:08
 
So far we have built and shipped 3 of the first 10 TORII Mk II's. †I have gotten feedback already from one of the buyers in California and thought you would enjoy reading it.

http://www.decware.com/zreview120.htm

Steve
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brad
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #53 - 10/13/05 at 17:20:47
 
Quote:
THIS LETTER IS IN WRITTEN IN APPRECIATION OF THE DECWARE COMPANY AND ITíS STAFF. I JUST HAVE A CONTINOUS WONDERFUL EXPERIENCE WITH ITíS PRODUCTS

THATíS WHY MY DECWARE GEARS ARE ALL BELOW #10 SERIAL NUMBERS.


Me too!  :D Cheesy Cheesy
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Rocket_Ronny
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #54 - 10/13/05 at 19:54:11
 
Oh Man.

When I saw Steve's new Torii offered up at $2,000.00 I thought buy it. While that is more than I want to spend I knew the amp would probably be killer.

We just moved and the new listening room demands more power than a Taboo would offer for my Hornshoppe Wanna-bees. However the move has killed any audio cash for a good while.  :'( They say patience is a virtue. So I guess I will have a lot of that.

So close and yet so far.

Rocket_Ronny

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brad
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #55 - 10/13/05 at 21:29:26
 
Rocket, have you thought about going to more efficient speakers?
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Rocket_Ronny
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #56 - 10/13/05 at 22:17:24
 
Hi Brad:

Yes I have.

I have a pair of Fostex 167s and considered the 206s. I find that the 6 inch 167 doesn't image as well as the 4 inch 108's in the Hornshoppes. I am also very happy with how the speakers turned out. I get a kick just looking at them. Here they are in case you did not see them. http://www.scripturesongs.com/audio2.htm †I ditched the Yamaha mixer in the system. That was just experimenting. Although I really enjoyed the Cayin Amp I sold it to help pay for the move. Wouldn't a Torii look nice there?

I can't believe how much more power the new room takes over what you see in the link above. Almost twice, and it is a norrower room. Too narrow for me. Enough to dampen my audio enthusiam a lot. I like a big, wide soundstage. That's why I say the room is KING.

Rocket_Ronny

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« Last Edit: 10/13/05 at 22:19:43 by Rocket_Ronny »  
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Brian
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Re: NEW TORII Mk II - Sneak Preview
Reply #57 - 10/14/05 at 08:28:20
 
Nice to see that review.  What a great amp.
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