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Decware SETs vs "the other stuff" (Read 7717 times)
Doorman
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Re: Decware SETs vs "the other stuff"
Reply #30 - 05/20/07 at 03:17:58
 
VERY low WAF! Undecided
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Decware SE34I w/ CCE mod, ZCD, Heybrook/Linn/Clearaudio, Hagerman,
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(eN) in DIY Mar-Ken cabs
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Terry
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Re: Decware SETs vs "the other stuff"
Reply #31 - 05/20/07 at 12:15:20
 
bo wrote on 05/20/07 at 02:39:14:
Check out Altmann's DIY TT...with Harley Davidson inlet valve & valve guide as TT main bearing!!  

http://www.altmann.haan.de/turntable/


Now thats a WORK OF ART!!!  I am almost inspired to make a TT like that just to see what it can do.

Back in the day when all we had was vinyl, my buddies and I had bought all these special set up tools, and would spend hours setting up our TT's, it was painstaking, but for the sake of the music and the longevity of our LP's we would do it.  To this day I have LP's that are over 30 years old, that still sound wonderful.  We also use to make recordings of our LP's so we didn't have to wear out our LP's.  We use to take our LP's to a local hi-fi shop to get them cleaned once a year, use antistatic sprays, special coating treatments when you first got them, Disc3 (If I recall correctly) disc cleaners were the latest greatest thing, I had the one with the cleaner in the handle.  It was a something we put a LOT into, and when CD's came out, the idea of far less hassle was a major draw.  Looking back on it that was a large part of what being an audiophile was all about, almost a lost art when it comes to setting up a TT.

TG  [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]
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Yo-Han
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Re: Decware SETs vs "the other stuff"
Reply #32 - 05/20/07 at 15:19:21
 
Steve pretty much sums up my experiences with vinyl and cdp's..

Love turntables ,but i've heard pretty darn analogue cdp's too with decent price cards these days..unison research unico cdp with triode ouptut for 1300$ for ex.(just recently heard,i was pleasantly surprised by it's anlogue round full bodied musical perfomance) ..consonance/opera audio cd120 linear (non os) 999$..
My reference for top notch cd playback is still the 1989 luxman/kusunoki fluency dac.Still using the luxman da07 dp07 combo based on it .A world class combo..beats the cheaper good digital sources in 3d imaging,it's extremely round bodied and subtle sound ... for ex.large classical is just RIGHT on this thing ; hence the price tag of 15k.

*Sidenote on luxman :
Strange story, it' aint mine,it's a 15k combo as i said.. limetd to 500;sec. hand only these days, if you find one! It's been here for 2 years and nobody seems to come and get it back! doh i contacted both parties involved!...A strange situation...but pleasent for me  :D..while it lasts.
**
Explains Steve theory...normally ,when spending much, you get to experience these things,unless you're lucky or an audio reviewer.


BUT ...If you own many LP's you simply NEED a TT to listen to them,it's as simple as that to me!

..i sold my TT because i owned few and do not find to many great LP's these days and i got tired of having to watch out for bad pressed or worn sec hand LP's ... AND i found pretty darn analogue sounding digital sources..BUT yes they both have some differences due the way they 'make' music..afer all the gear doesn't matter if it plays the musical and emotional content only,and YOU enjoy...most important to me is : non fatiguing natural sound that'll touch the soul ...
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« Last Edit: 05/25/07 at 16:05:05 by Yo-Han »  
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144cubits
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Jeremiah 29:11

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Re: Decware SETs vs "the other stuff"
Reply #33 - 05/24/07 at 17:03:42
 
davedutill wrote on 05/16/07 at 19:08:31:
What the hey!!


Perhaps the Transcendant could be used as a Septic cleaner?



I apologize to coming late to this thread but as an owner of both a Decware Taboo and a Transcendent GG preamp I felt I needed to add my 1 cent. I was not in attendance at the venue in which the comparison took place so I cannot speak to which completed rig is better. What I can say is that I recently put together the GG (my first kit) and it has improved the sound of the stand alone Taboo.

I know that everyone will say that had I used a Decware preamp it would sound even better maybe so, but the fact that it improved the sound at all is a testament to the quality of the Transcendent gear. To launch attacks against it because of a particular preference is wrong. We all have preferences and there is no scientific way of measuring "good sound".

I have no problem with someone saying " the gear sounded too analytical or bright" but a space heater and a septic tank? C'mon guys we are all better than that.
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bo
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Re: Decware SETs vs "the other stuff"
Reply #34 - 05/24/07 at 18:38:43
 
144cubits wrote on 05/24/07 at 17:03:42:

I apologize to coming late to this thread but as an owner of both a Decware Taboo and a Transcendent GG preamp I felt I needed to add my 1 cent. I was not in attendance at the venue in which the comparison took place so I cannot speak to which completed rig is better. What I can say is that I recently put together the GG (my first kit) and it has improved the sound of the stand alone Taboo.

I know that everyone will say that had I used a Decware preamp it would sound even better maybe so, but the fact that it improved the sound at all is a testament to the quality of the Transcendent gear. To launch attacks against it because of a particular preference is wrong. We all have preferences and there is no scientific way of measuring "good sound".

I have no problem with someone saying " the gear sounded too analytical or bright" but a space heater and a septic tank? C'mon guys we are all better than that.


The original comments made here and at AC were comparing two amplifiers, not preamps.

The comment about a space heater was in reference to the two amps Transcendent Sound makes that have nearly two dozen tubes. Even the manufacturer suggests that to reduce heat output “summer mode” to remove 8 of the 16 power tubes. It was in no way a negative statement in regards to sound quality – just a humorous fact.

BTW: My Select sounds better with the last couple of preamps I own(ed) then without one at all.
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fate is not just whose cooking smells good but which way the wind blows
Decware Custom Select/ParkerAudio 95sigs, McAlister SE32 SET/Alon Model 2's, McAlister PL-10 pre, Arcam FMJ CD23T, KRK V12S sub, ScottNixon USBTD and other assorted wire and all sorts.
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144cubits
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Jeremiah 29:11

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Re: Decware SETs vs "the other stuff"
Reply #35 - 05/24/07 at 19:23:31
 
"Space heater, Night light, Septic cleaner". Forgive me but that sounds anything but praise for Transcendent's sound quality. Again I have NO problem with peoples preferences. If you don't like the gear that's fine. My issue is that it would be more constructive and yes helpful if the comments were kept to specifics such as better imaging, better low end, more detail etc. This would allow folks  who may be pondering a switch, but haven't had the benefit of listening to both side by side to make an informed decision.

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bo
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Re: Decware SETs vs "the other stuff"
Reply #36 - 05/24/07 at 20:56:50
 
144cubits wrote on 05/24/07 at 19:23:31:
"Space heater, Night light, Septic cleaner". Forgive me but that sounds anything but praise for Transcendent's sound quality. Again I have NO problem with peoples preferences. If you don't like the gear that's fine. My issue is that it would be more constructive and yes helpful if the comments were kept to specifics such as better imaging, better low end, more detail etc. This would allow folks  who may be pondering a switch, but haven't had the benefit of listening to both side by side to make an informed decision.



who said that? Use the "Quote" option, its helpfull.
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fate is not just whose cooking smells good but which way the wind blows
Decware Custom Select/ParkerAudio 95sigs, McAlister SE32 SET/Alon Model 2's, McAlister PL-10 pre, Arcam FMJ CD23T, KRK V12S sub, ScottNixon USBTD and other assorted wire and all sorts.
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144cubits
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Jeremiah 29:11

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Re: Decware SETs vs "the other stuff"
Reply #37 - 05/24/07 at 21:42:26
 
davedutill wrote on 05/16/07 at 19:08:31:
What the hey!!

Then bringing up the tail end was the transcendant.  Yes, it had tubes galore, it worked flawlessly as a night light for people coming in and out of the room.  

Perhaps the Transcendant could be used as a Septic cleaner?



Then your comment Bo, meant in jest of course. "Who is Bruce? Are you talkign about Transcendent Audio, the ones that use like 37 tubes? Play music and heat your home all at once – LOL!! "

There. helpful enough? I am not an apologist for Transcendent Audio, I'm sure Bruce can take care of himself. I again reiterate that bashing anyones gear is not helpful. Citing specific weaknesses (perceived or otherwise) IS helpful but the ultimate arbiter should be your own ears.Now frankly I'm tired of playing this game and believe I've made my position quite clear.
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Dirty_Dawg
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Re: Decware SETs vs "the other stuff"
Reply #38 - 05/25/07 at 00:14:49
 
144cubits wrote on 05/24/07 at 21:42:26:

Then your comment Bo, meant in jest of course. "Who is Bruce? Are you talkign about Transcendent Audio, the ones that use like 37 tubes? Play music and heat your home all at once – LOL!! "

There. helpful enough? I am not an apologist for Transcendent Audio, I'm sure Bruce can take care of himself. I again reiterate that bashing anyones gear is not helpful. Citing specific weaknesses (perceived or otherwise) IS helpful but the ultimate arbiter should be your own ears.Now frankly I'm tired of playing this game and believe I've made my position quite clear.



The 37 tube house heater joke is a "Classic". How can it no longer be funny? Audio has gotten so complicated these days!
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Anxiously watching as the whirling wind scoops up and hurls into oblivion the chalky white dust that was once the rank bones of my final oppressor, I relax finally, as I have survived again.
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Yo-Han
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Re: Decware SETs vs "the other stuff"
Reply #39 - 05/25/07 at 02:44:17
 
When people are joking..wel euh they're joking...Even the good can be ridiculed Cheesy

Now that you asked for it  144..i'm shure some people (those who actually compared)  will give you a good comparison if you insist ; like differences in soundstaging etc etc. Smiley

This forum is extremely helpfull about many other products and off course dec stuff , and Steve is pretty easy on 'the other brand' discussion


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musgofasa
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Re: Decware SETs vs "the other stuff"
Reply #40 - 05/25/07 at 12:52:13
 
I believe I was present at the listening session in question here. I didn't get as much time with the Transcendant stuff as I did with the decware equipment, but I did get to hear both on speakers that I am familiar with.
I believe the original intention of the post was to support Decware products in a contrast to the abilities of the other equipment here. The Decware (to my ears) had better presence and musicality. The Transcendant gear sounded good. I wouldn't turn it down if offered to me and honestly if it was considerably less money I would likely purchase one. Speaking of that comparison, bear in mind that I have no idea how much that gear costs (I haven't even looked it up). I do know the price of Steve's equipment and the point that it is priced at is low enough that I haven't looked at the other gear. I felt that the Decware gear just did a much better job overall. I heard both sets hooked up to several different speakers including some of Steve's, Ed's horns and two or three others. I wonder if the transcendant might be more leniant to lesser sources, DAC's or cables (I don't know at all) but like I said, it was a good head to head and I felt that both gave a great performance with the Decware winning the "Overall" title if there was a bout to be won.

Take care,
Robert

PS There were several jokes cracked about the night lite after some 3 or 4 coolers of beer were drank and the lights were off and it was terribly funny at the time. lol

Edit: It was this listening session and hearing the differences in Tubes in several amps (Decware, Vaughn, And some I can't name) that has me geared on learing about tube amps so it should be a testament to how much enjoyment was gained from all of the equipment presented. It even sparked my thread in the "Tube Lover's" Forum.
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« Last Edit: 05/25/07 at 12:54:19 by musgofasa »  

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144cubits
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Re: Decware SETs vs "the other stuff"
Reply #41 - 05/25/07 at 13:59:34
 
Thanx Robert for the helpful information. I agree  Decware gear is hard to beat in terms of value.  It looks like for now I'm keeping my Taboo! Wink
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musgofasa
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Re: Decware SETs vs "the other stuff"
Reply #42 - 05/25/07 at 17:37:23
 
Actually, I am not sure if I heard the decware amps used with the Transcendant pre or not. I think that this was done at least once or twice. I am sure Randy could give a much better description than I of what the differences were. The thing I learned from the whole experience was that synergy is the most important factor. Even with Decware amps and pres, the changes made to cables (power and signal etc) and sources made a difference. We ended up with an Eddie Vaughn modded amp (I think) and a Decware Integrated (I personally liked the integrated better) and I believe the CSP2 the last night along with an experiment of a speaker. The power cables got swapped and I cuoldn't tell you the final verdict on what sounded best, but I bet that even that same rig in a different room would need tweaking.

I thought the transcendant gear did a good job of holding it's own in a room full of modded and unmodded equipment. I wouldn't say it sounded better than anything else, but it never sounded bad. I think Randy could definitely tell you the finer details. I would have to say overall the gear wasn't as warm as the Decware gear and maybe a little less musical but my words are not as clear as I am sure his would be.

Take care,
Robert
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Randy in Caintuck
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Re: Decware SETs vs "the other stuff"
Reply #43 - 05/25/07 at 21:46:18
 
musgofasa wrote on 05/25/07 at 17:37:23:
I think Randy could definitely tell you the finer details. I would have to say overall the gear wasn't as warm as the Decware gear and maybe a little less musical but my words are not as clear as I am sure his would be.

Robert


Howdy Robert,

Your choice of words is more than adequate .....  :)

The comparison that I really wanted to hear (and didn't) was the Decware CSP2 vs the Transcendent Grounded Grid preamp mated with my Decware Select power amp.  Maybe another time.

Based on what I heard when played with the same speakers, I agree with your thoughts that the Decware gear was warmer and more musical.  I also thought they had more bloom and a more "liquid" sound.  Some might interpret this to mean that the Decware gear sounds more like "classic tube equipment" ..... and nothing could be further from the truth.  Most classic tube amplifiers sound muddy, slow and vague compared to Decware amplifiers, IMHO.

Again, not to say that the Transcendent gear was bad ..... but I was expecting to be bowled over based on the comments of a few folks who own gear from both companies, and it just didn't happen.  As I previously stated, those folks probably did not have the benefit of hearing the Decware amplifier with V-Caps installed and a CSP2.  They might very well have come to a different conclusion if that was the case.  

Oh well ..... different strokes and all that.  Just to show you how tastes vary between listeners, I much prefer the Decware SV83 / EL84 amps to the integrated.  Two totally different sounds for sure.  It all boils down to personal taste .....  8-)

It was good to meet you.  Hope to see you at the next DecFest.

Randy
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« Last Edit: 05/25/07 at 21:48:14 by Randy in Caintuck »  

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musgofasa
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Re: Decware SETs vs "the other stuff"
Reply #44 - 05/25/07 at 21:57:27
 
No Doubt,
I plan on being there if there is any way I can get there!

I didn't think about it, but I really have no idea what mods had been done to any of the Decware amps I heard. The only thing I heard mentioned was the rolled tubes in the integrated amp. I didn't think we used the transcendant with any of the other amps either so that might have been a good comparison to make. Considering we bailed at some 3AM I can't imagine having enough time to actually get to listen to everything I would like to hear.

But that is what makes it really fun isn't it! I have to admit that the carina (sp?) sounded absolutely splendid with Bob's speakers and whatever other gear we ended up with that night. I don't know how long I sat in that chair with my eyes closed just enjoying the music, but it was by far the most fun I have had in a while.


Take Care,
Robert
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« Last Edit: 05/25/07 at 21:57:52 by musgofasa »  

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