Julie and I just returned from Zenfest.  Unfortunatly, I have a couple of meetings on Sunday, which prevented us from enjoying Saturday night FESTivities, or posting in detail tonight.  Sorry.

Of course we had a great time, meeting old and new friends, listening to a lot of new stuff, and just hanging out.

Thank you Steve, DeVon, Bob, and the Decware crew.   We will join in on the forum tomarrow.  To our friends still enjoying the fest, be careful going home...it's big out there.

Steve

Doorman wrote on 10/07/07 at 04:57:11:


Don,

If you read in my above post I did mention the approximate size of the speakers I talked about 8" wide, by 3' tall, by 14" deep.

Terry

Doorman wrote on 10/07/07 at 04:57:11:

I think there were pictures of them from last years 'Fest.

My favorite speaker was this new speaker using two fostex ( I think they were the FE167 drivers). The drivers were arranged in line vertically, the top one had its whizzer modified, and a foam phase plug, the bottom one had its whizzer removed and a new black dust cap installed. The cabinet was about 3' tall, 8" wide by about 14" deep.  On Saturday they disappeared so I don't think I have a pic of them, perhaps someone else does.  The cabinet is a transmission line, ending in a passive radiator.  

Terry,

I believe that the speakers you are referring to are that of the Deckert/Ziegler RETAIL line. If so, what you described seems to be that of the 'KADENCE' models.

I have had a set of these in my system now for almost two years. These are incredible speakers that I personally have deemed among my favorites. They are everything as you described for sure! These are now used as my main speakers, which overall, do everything right from low frequency extension to virtually perfect imaging, with a disclosure of micro detail present in the music that most speakers just do not portray.

The only type of speaker that I've compared to these which are capable of revealing this level of  clarity, detail, and focus, are those of single, full-range drivers such as the DFR-8 in the NFX design. The cylinder type radial designs such as the 1.5's come very close to this degree as well, although they are a very different type of speaker and quite unique within parameters that no other design can approach on the same level.

When considering overall performance factors, that is where the similarity ends. While the NFX for example, produces reference grade imaging qualities with unprecedented ambience while using the modified Fostex DFR-8 drivers, the bass is very limited and falls short in that area with this type of design.

The 'KADENCE' design takes that same 'unrestricted' imaging quality, and produces a superbly controlled bass response which extends effortlessly into the lower frequency registers, usually  not present within typical loudspeakers. The main factor to consider here is that not only is the lower frequency  factor present here in abundance, most importantly is in how it is ‘presented‘. The transmission line design works so very well with a speaker of this type.


One cannot really categorize the radial design among other speaker designs because of the very fact that they are so unique in what they do. There is a major difference between a 360 degree ‘upward’ firing approach, to that of a more traditional ‘forward’ firing driver technique. This alone sets the standard into two totally separate categories which really  hold no similarity in the grand scheme of things.

If you like the presentation of the radial design, but prefer the more traditional forward driver ‘direct’ focus design, the Kadence speaker is perfect for delivering comparable sound qualities with an extension of controlled bass response that leaves nothing to be desired.

I like both types, but I find myself listening to the Kadence designs more often than I do the radials. Room set-up has allot to do with this, as it does take a considerably more balanced set of  room acoustical factors to make the forward firing driver designs perform without the distractions of common room acoustical anomalies.

The radials are more forgiving in that regard. Within a well ‘controlled’ listening environment, the Kadence speaker is simply incredible in it’s ability to present  a well focused  soundstage, with absolute control across the musical spectrum. The layers of detail which flow from these speakers will have you re-experiencing your music with nuances that were very likely unknown in the past. These are ultra revealing like the DFR-8 single full range drivers. This can be good or bad, dependent upon the quality of your source material. Speakers on this level will indeed reveal and expose what your system is really capable or not capable of!

Although I have not personally compared these speakers with the single driver ‘updated’ HDT design, I would speculate that these too would place within this category.

I am in the process of assembling the HDT cabinets with the single driver DFR-8’s and the updated passive radiators. Once these are complete, I will be evaluating their performance against the high standard which the Kadence designs portray. It would be my guess at this time, that the HDT’s will be very similar in regard to performance. However, that remains to be evaluated which I intend to compare these  very different design signatures.

The overall concept of this speaker design captures the best of both worlds and integrates these attributes into a well built, reasonably sized cabinet design which I think is an example of excellent form and function.  One that becomes a reference standard for other designs to be compared.

Buzz,

Thanks for the update. Those are the Kadence speakers pictured. Absolutely wonderful speakers to say the least!

It would have been nice to attend but this was just to impractical for me to travel that far and take the time to do it. It is great that the others including yourself did make it. I'm sure that this will give you a much more solid foundation on the design philosophy for Decware and it's products.

I have already been well introduced to the majority of the product line by personal experience, as most of this would have already been common knowledge for me. I would have liked to hear the new 'open-baffle' speakers and the new mono-blocks. That would have been my primary objective other than socializing. The surround channel set-up that Steve is working with also intrigues me, this being something that I am seriously interested in. Was there any mention or demonstration of that?

BTW: The dimensions for the Kadence are: 38" T by 10.5" W by 12" D *(at the top).  They are a slanted design which allows the proper degree of driver alignment within the time response. Therefore, they are deeper at the bottom with a progressive slope upwards. The top peaks at 12" deep.

I use them directly onto the carpet without spikes with excellent results. As far as I'm concerned in my set-up, they are perfect for my tastes. Bass detail is very well controlled, tight, and fast without a trace of bloating or boom. I would never consider adding an additional subwoofer with these as it would be redundant and unnecessary.

Hello,
I have been a 'lurker' for a long time. I am really interested in the Kadence speakers. I think in last years fest, it was told that these speakers will be available soon. But I have not seen them under Decware speakers in the website. Anyone knows where/when they will be available?Thanks

D

John,

That speaker that buzz posted a picture of is a one-off that BobZ built this year before hornfest. I had the pleasure of hearing them there and I think I will be ruined for life if I ever want to hear good sounding speakers again, lol. Those are (to me at least) the sweetest sounding speakers ever.

RFZ quests description of the Kadence speakers is dead on. They do deliver everything so well. I wish I could sit for hours and A/B these two sets and just try to make a decision lol.

Take care,
Robert

The reason that you do not see anything about the Kadence speakers on the Decware site is very simple. As the description reads, these are from a marketing line-up designated under the DECKERT/ZIEGLER RETAIL LINE WHICH IS SEPERATE FROM DECWARE ITSELF.

I am not authorized to disclose any more details about this line as it is a future project still in the works. Bob or Steve would be your direct source of information about this at this time. Dealer networks are in the process of being developed for this line. This is why the Kadence and the other two new designs are dubbed RETAIL VERSIONS ONLY.

It will not be long before these become available. Word will get out when the appropriate time has evolved to do so. Decfest just opened the doors to give you a little taste of what's to come.

Being retail means that these will be sold from authorized dealers in actual audio stores. This opens up and expands the opportunity for more people to actualy audition these in person before they purchase.

Many new and exciting things are about to develope in the near future. Until this all comes into play, everyone interested is simply just needing to wait until then for these speakers to become available.

The reason that I have had a set of the Kadence speakers for what is actually around 18 months, is for very good reason. I own the actual prototype set that brought life into this new design. My job was to live with it, test it thouroughly in comparison to other speakers in the line up and provide feedback for  the final production model.

I made this clear about these speakers along with the new Retail Radial design during last years Decfest. Yes, I also have a set of the original 'prototype' RETAIL RADIAL models in finished form. These have had slight cosmetic changes done to the latest design seen at this years event. There have been some updated upgrades as well on the new radial design since I recieved my evaluation set.

It takes time for a new line-up to develope. It didn't happen overnight by some magical wave from the fairies wand a week before the fest!

I can assure you that this line up is only beginning it's journey, let alone any sort of dissapearing act any time soon.

Was there a picture of the new Open Baffles?
Am I missing it?

D

erimille wrote on 10/09/07 at 02:27:34:

Yes, they look great. Any plans for, er-- plans?
                                                                     Don

I downloaded the pictures form my camera, here are ones that aren't duplicates of others.


THE PLACE



You would never know from looking at it from the outside what is contained within, but I have a feeling Steve likes it if not planned it that way.


THE MAN



For those of you that have not met Steve is is a soft spoken man, who is very interesting.  I spent a lot of time sneeking up in already ongoing conversations between Steve and others, and would listen in just to learn more about his thoughts and ideas.


THE BENCH



This is Steves test bench which is wired to the listening room behind the wall, you can see a CSP1 built into the wall and a Zen amplifiers hanging there.  Behind the equipment was a black panel of connections for the speakers in the adjacent room behind the wall behind the bench.

Just to the right of the test bench was the holding area for various speakers, and you can see the entry door in the background.




PEOPLE



Pictured from left to right: Openly_baffled, Bob_in_StLouis, Dennis I forgot his moniker, and lastly Randy.  Notice how Randy is show casing his favorite beer, he really savors these things, sipping on just one for hours, it is a good thing his favorite beer taste good at room temperature.


Trivia for those NOT at the fest.



Who whore this shirt at the fest, and what amps is this schematic?  I will give progressing clues if anyone wants to have fun and guess.

I have some video in a week or so perhaps I will have it edited and uploaded onto YouTube.


TG

If the pics don't show up it is because the webspace I have them on has exceeded it bandwidth limit.  You then need to wait an hour and they should be visable again.  If this continues to happen and more people have difficulty I can reduce their size and then perhaps this will not be a problem any longer, but I wanted to keep the pics as large as possible meaning that their would be more data transfer, meaning that the possibility of the webspaces data transfer limit may become exceeded.  Probably after today this will be a moot point.

TG

Brad wrote on 10/10/07 at 02:17:38:


Hi Brad,

The OB sounded as you would think... fast, detailed, but lacking bass. The Kadence was very well balanced, detailed and fast. BTW the divers in the MTM are not the ones you linked to at parts express, Bob told me what they were but for the life of me I can't remember.

buzz

buzz wrote on 10/10/07 at 02:27:02:


Is it my eyes or can I see the OB having a built up box section half way down. Was there an intention to have a downward firing bass driver there?

Terry wrote on 10/09/07 at 21:31:24:


Not a clue who is wearing the shirt.  The amp is easy - Fender 5F1 Tweed Champ.

Bob

Randy in Caintuck wrote on 10/10/07 at 16:11:51:


Randy saw how disappointed I was that there was no Miller High Life Light at Decfest... you know it IS the champagne of beers!

I guess I just dont like beer that I have to chew.  :P

buzz

opnly_bafld wrote on 10/10/07 at 12:23:08:


Many thanks for the link - Will have a read at it - I don't know how I missed it.

Hey your not suppose to guess if you were there.  Oh well Jason had a cool shirt, and I thought the trivia would be fun.

I don't know why but everyone was exactly how I imagined them being in personality, and I enjoyed getting to know a few I never knew before.

TG

Why does this thread have a star just before its subject line?

Also there was some very nice beer similar to St. Pauli Girl at the fest that ticked my taste buds quite well.

TG

No, I have been rather busy, just Monday I had a wood shop accident that is going to keep me from working until at least next Monday.  Perhaps if I feel better tomarrow I will be able to work on it, but don't count on it.  I can't type with my left hand.

TG

I guess I should have been more specific, as I got a call from a fellow forum member wanting to know how bad my accident was.  I was runnin a piece of wood through my jointer and it kicked back, throwing my finger into the blade, and it shaved off my finger print.  Not bad really, it could be worse but I have to lay off of it so it heals faster.


TG

Terry wrote on 10/26/07 at 16:31:21:

Terry: We'll hope you're not detained at airport security anytime soon! (why is it this guy's got no fingerprints?  [smiley=56.gif])
Glad it wasn't more serious.
                        Don

Terry wrote on 10/26/07 at 16:31:21:


Minor but unfortunate just the same. something that simple can keep a person from their regular scheduled life as well. The longer you give it a rest the faster it will heal is a good motto!
glad your healing up! Keep it clean and clear of infection. If you let it get infected then you have a bigger problem on your hands.

Doc Gexter