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Rectifier tube for CSP2? (Read 24164 times)
Lon
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Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Reply #45 - 10/23/12 at 13:59:22
 
That's the first I've heard of a UE596 in these machines!
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setamp
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Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Reply #46 - 10/23/12 at 20:01:04
 
Electrically, it is a 5U4G I understand.  It was ruggedized for aircraft use.  It does require an adapter to wire in the pins at the top of the tube.  There is a good discussion of this tube on the head-fi site in the Woo Appreciation thread.
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Lon
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Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Reply #47 - 10/23/12 at 20:19:04
 
Cool, thanks.
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Lord Soth
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Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Reply #48 - 11/10/12 at 14:36:14
 
I carried out a rectifier shootout on my CSP2+.

All the following rectifier tubes were burned in for >24 hrs each

1. RCA JAN 5R4GY 2x "D" Getter Black Plates (1950s or earlier ??)
2. Philips 5R4GYS Grey Plates Round Dimple Getter (1970s)
3. Brimar 5R4GY 2x "D" Getter Black Plates (1950s)

and compared against my default rectifier
4. Tung Sol 5Y3GT Black Plates "D" Getter (1950s).

My CSP2+ uses the following default tubes

2x Siemens E188CC Grey Shields for the L/R position
1x Amperex *USA Pinched Waist "D" Getter for the input position.

My Audio Chain is as follows :-

Oppo BDP 95 > Soundsilver Symmetry RCA Cables > CSP2+ > Beyerdynamic DT880 600 Ohms

This audio shootout is based on headphone usage so YMMV if you are using your CSP2+ as a preamp.

1. RCA - JAN 5R4GY 2x "D" Getter Black Plates (1950s or earlier ??)
This contributes to the largest soundstage of all the rectifiers.
The spatial height dimension is most pronounced here.

Mids are neutral, so if you like a neutral sound and use your CSP2 as a preamp, this might be your ticket.

Bass is not boomy but is impactful and tight.
Drums have elastic quality.

Instrument separation is excellent (the best of this lot) and very distinct.

Nice Airy sound to Cello strings.

2. Philips 5R4GYS Grey Plates Round Dimple Getter (1970s)
This is the rectifier tube according to Kevin Deal of Upscale audio.

Compared with the neutral RCA tube above, the mids now have a very wonderful dose of tube warmth added to them.
The mids are so organic that many users are likely to get audio orgasms from using this rectifier.
This is one of those tubes for female vocals which help convey emotion and draw the listener into the music.
I can thus understand why so many positive reviews have been posted on Kevin Deal's website.

Instrumental strings have a very nice airy reverberation.

Instrument separation is good but not as distinct as the above-mentioned RCA rectifier. This is just a minor quibble.

Bass is impactful, tight and not too boomy.

3. Brimar 5R4GY 2x "D" Getter Black Plates (1950s) Made in UK
Short history lesson here.
There are 2 Great ones in the tube rectifier world.
(a) WE 274B
(b) GEC/Marconi U52

The Brimar 5R4GY has earned (not just from me) itself a rather legendary reputation where tube rectifiers are concerned.
Yes, this is one of those tubes which can be mentioned in the same breath as the above 2.
(and YES, in case you are wondering, the Mullard GZ34s are over-rated and over priced....but that is another story Wink

Ok. History lesson over.

Back to this tube.

If you thought the mids of the Philips 5R4GYS were really organic and wonderful in a tube warmth kind of way, then the mids from the Brimar tube are really to die for.
This is where the Brimar rectifier earns its reputation for being WE 274b "like".

Bass sounds from this tube is the most "3D" like with Depth, Width and Height. Drums are not just a simple "thumph" but have tone as well!

The tonality (especially string instruments) from this tube is the most realistic sounding.

Instrument separation is good but not as distinct as the above-mentioned RCA rectifier. This is just a minor quibble.

Bass is impactful, tight and not too boomy.


4. Tung Sol 5Y3GT Black Plates "D" Getter (1950s)
The CSP2+ was designed to use 5Y3 rectifiers.

No surprises that in my system, the already highly rated Tung Sol sounds just as good as the Brimar rectifier in almost every department.

The Tung Sol rectifier does lose out to the RCA rectifier in terms of soundstage though, especially in the relative lack of height.

Ermm, what I'm trying to say is that before you rush out to grab that Brimar 5R4GY rectifier for your CSP2, you can get most of the sonics from using a humble Tung Sol 5Y3 instead.

However, the mids of the the Brimar are still the best organic sounding of all the rectifiers I tested.

Epilogue a.k.a Rectifier Shootout #2
I have another SE EL34 based tube amp for my speaker setup which is designed around the 5U4 rectifier.

After the rectifier shoot-out in the CSP2+, I carried out a similar one for my speaker amp.

For that other shootout, the Brimar rectifier totally obliterated the competition.
Every other member in my family literally asked me what I did to my audio system to make it sound so organic and rich and inject a hypnotic presence to the sound.

The mids from the Philips 5R4GY still sounded warm and organic.
This is consistent with the tons of accolades from Kevin Deal's customers who have used the Philips 5R4 on external speaker amps.

However, the Brimar takes the mids to a whole different higher level, into the Stratosphere of the legendary WE 274B and GEC U52 but without the cost!

So if you have a speaker amp which uses the 5U4, the Brimar 5R4GY is highly recommended. The next best thing would probably be a Philips 5R4GY from Kevin Deal.
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Lon
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Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Reply #49 - 11/10/12 at 15:06:48
 
Interesting shootout and results, thanks for the detailed information.

Very soon (it's on the bench!) I can start trying out 5Y3GT tubes in my ZP3. I don't really like tube-rolling per se (gets in the way of listening to and connecting to the music for me) so I won't say I'm looking forward to it, but I'm looking forward to finding a great rectifier for the ZP3.
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« Last Edit: 11/10/12 at 17:15:52 by Lon »  

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Longbowbbs
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Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Reply #50 - 12/15/12 at 00:57:17
 
I would like to post some pics of my new USAF-596 Rectifier on the CSP2+...How do I post pics and is there a size limit on the photo?
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Lon
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Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Reply #51 - 12/15/12 at 04:49:01
 
Donnie is the uncredited instructor and expert on this, and here is his latest tutorial from the Superzen thread:

I need to write a standard process for attaching photos.

The best way is to post them at a photo sharing site like Photobucket or Flicker.
Then push the 3rd little button from the top left that looks like a little picture, when you hover over the button it says Insert Image. Push the button and [img][/img] comes up.
Put the URL of your picture between the ] and [
Now when you preview your post, the photo should show up.
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Don W
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Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Reply #52 - 12/15/12 at 05:29:34
 
I think if you attach an image file to the message when you post it, the image gets displayed. Use the Browse button to select the file.
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Longbowbbs
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Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Reply #53 - 12/15/12 at 13:19:46
 
Is there an image size limit?
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Donnie
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Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Reply #54 - 12/15/12 at 13:41:35
 
There isn't a limit if you link the photo in from a sharing site like Flicker.
I'll try to take some time today and figure out a way to make a document to show how to link photos.
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Longbowbbs
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Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Reply #55 - 12/15/12 at 15:09:34
 
The Mighty USAF-596 Rectifier







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setamp
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Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Reply #56 - 12/18/12 at 20:20:19
 
USAF- 596  Agree !!!!!
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Greg12
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Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Reply #57 - 04/01/13 at 22:26:01
 
I like this thread, keep going over it from time to time.  An FYI for anyone interested in the Phillips 5R4GYS rectifier.  I have 2 I got from upscaleaudio.com for $40 +shipping.   I went back to the site today for a 3rd, (1 for my csp2 and 2 for my Torii MK lll that is currently "on the bench", anyways, the tubes are now going for $55 + shipping.  Must have happened recently and I had just ordered the 2nd one a month or so ago.   The description of the tube states that they figured it'd go eventually to $100.  Looks like it might someday.  Makes it tougher for me to pull the trigger another.  Might put the 2 I have in the torii and get one of the RCA's Lon mentions he likes for the csp2.

Greg
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Lord Soth
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Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Reply #58 - 04/02/13 at 02:51:50
 
Hi Greg!

Yes, the Philips 5R4GYS are mil spec tubes which work very well in place of the usual 5U4G or GZ34.
From my own experience and the reviews found on upscale audio, this ranks as one of the greatest audio discoveries alongside the use of PCC88s in place of 6DJ8 tubes.

Considering how insanely $$$$ the GZ34 have be become, the 5R4GYS are really value for $$$.

I've also bought a couple of Philips and Brimar 5R4G rectifiers for my great great grandchildren to use and enjoy ! Wink

BTW, for those technically inclined, the Max Input Capacitor listed in the data sheets is 4uF.
My personal research in this area has lead me to conclude that the cap rating is grossly understated.
The 5R4GY class of rectifier can work safely up to around 47uF cap.
So it is safe to use this rectifier based on empirical evidence and experimentation.
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Rivieraranch
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Re: Rectifier tube for CSP2?
Reply #59 - 04/02/13 at 03:14:41
 
You listen to Lord South, boy! I looked up those tubes and they are nice coke bottle brown based cuties that will probably go fast. They probably will be around $100 some day.
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