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Housewrecker Driver Support (Read 7186 times)
a10299
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Housewrecker Driver Support
09/22/07 at 21:33:13
 
I have been searching for several years for good drivers to put in the Housewrecker. Using the general notes on the website as guidelines, fs 20, qtc, 3.8, and vas 10, the closest thing to that are the DVC385-88 15" DVC Series Subwoofers. Does anyone have any experience with the DVC 15s, or any general experience with Dayton Audio? Is the company legit?

Also I have looked into Peavey, EAW, JBL, Madison, and Fane. Please add any info or experiences with any of these brands.

I am not sure what to put in there, so please also post what you use, and how much it cost.

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.
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Bart_West-VL.
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Re: Housewrecker Driver Support
Reply #1 - 09/23/07 at 08:38:53
 
Too much doubt, in you're mind, you have yes.
Cheesy
I think they will do the job very well, you said it yourself, it's the closest to the specs that are recommended, so...
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FlipC
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Re: Housewrecker Driver Support
Reply #2 - 09/24/07 at 17:58:05
 
Well you need to realize you
would need to tune for what ever speaker you end up using. The design is relative for a given set of parameters. Which when matched give the best output for the design. This is not to say that another speaker won't outperform the standard.

Dayton makes some good speakers.
They have several lines to meet your needs.  They, like Eminence, produce speakers for OEM use. So you have probably already used one and didn't know it.
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a10299
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Re: Housewrecker Driver Support
Reply #3 - 09/25/07 at 14:45:20
 
when evaluating a driver, how important is the voice coil? is a large coil better than a smaller one? does a dual coil improve speaker performance greatly. many of the "professional" companies, i have looked use 4 inch voice coils, although none of these expensive speakers fit my needs. the Dayton DVC series that i am looking at have 2 inch voice coils. do smaller voice coils move faster, more efficiently, alowing for better performance, or is the 4 inch voice coil a better approach?
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FlipC
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Re: Housewrecker Driver Support
Reply #4 - 09/26/07 at 00:27:52
 
DVC (dual voice coil) or single depends on:

The enclosure - full range enclosure with a DVC driver would allow you to drive the mid/highs separately from the lows. More typically you would find DVC in a sub enclosure. Which ties into..
Amplifier - DVC allows you more freedom on wiring. So you can drive 1 sub with both channels of a stereo amplifier or wire parallel or series to reconfigure the speaker's impedance.

The physical diameter of a VC
in a nut shell will effect the efficiency of a speaker.   Most "pro" speakers will be 4" diameter to better handle the longer duration of high RMS. Size doesn't equal quality.

If ever in doubt about a product take a few
to research reviews online. See what other people have said about the item.



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Adrian
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Formerly known as
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Re: Housewrecker Driver Support
Reply #5 - 09/26/07 at 09:12:07
 
a10299 wrote on 09/25/07 at 14:45:20:
when evaluating a driver, how important is the voice coil? is a large coil better than a smaller one? does a dual coil improve speaker performance greatly. many of the "professional" companies, i have looked use 4 inch voice coils, although none of these expensive speakers fit my needs. the Dayton DVC series that i am looking at have 2 inch voice coils. do smaller voice coils move faster, more efficiently, alowing for better performance, or is the 4 inch voice coil a better approach?

there isn't a rule larger coils (in diameter) move slower than smaller coils. what could be of importance is the mms, but that's where the cone comes into play. and how much wire you have on the coil
the bigger the coil, the greater the surface => more powerhandling and less chance of going into power compression. but for your application i DON'T see use for a driver with big coils.
so, don't worry about 2inch coils Smiley
people have used dayton drivers with succes.
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« Last Edit: 09/26/07 at 09:13:31 by Adrian »  

Too much bass never hurts, or does it ?
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HT-EXT
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Re: Housewrecker Driver Support
Reply #6 - 09/26/07 at 19:22:16
 
I have used the Dayton woofers with much success. My favorites would be the HO, HF, Series II, and the DVCs. They all have good parameters for use with the HWK design. Another factor you might want to consider is the "sag factor"(check link). I notice a big difference when the HWK was laid on its side versus setting straight up. The only numbers I would worry about would be X-max and Fs. The HWK is a very forgiven design and most every speaker I have tried has perform good with the higher dollar/better constructed speakers out performing the cheap stuff by a mile. Dayton, Mach5audio, and Kicker all have worked very good for me but some others might differ in their opinion.

HT-EXT


Link:

http://www.partsexpress.com/resources/woofer-mount-up-down.cfm
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« Last Edit: 09/26/07 at 20:48:41 by HT-EXT »  

" I TRY TO THINK BUT NUT'EN HAPPENS! " CURLY
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a10299
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Re: Housewrecker Driver Support
Reply #7 - 09/27/07 at 01:15:25
 
"ther factor you might want to consider is the "sag factor"(check link). "

the sag percentage was 4% for the dvc series. does this mean that because 4 is less then the 5%, these are ok down firing, or does it mean that 4 is 26% of the x-max 15.1 that they sould not be down firing?

are there any tuning issues related to the DVC series? the DVC 15s are rated at 600 watts RMS, do I need to run 5 or 6 hundred watts into each speaker, which then would require a 2000 watts at 2 ohm amp? i plan to use the HWK as a sub for a small venue por-audio sound system so I want the maximum output without compromising the integrity of the speaker. (i also want it to last a long time).

since the Daytons have dual voice coils, should i rewire them to change the resistance? right now they are 4 ohms each, so for quad loading, thats 2 ohms for each clamshelled pair.

are there any certain things i need to look out for when tuning the HWK, any way to make output performance is maximum based on the speakers, different things to try, different ways to do things, etc...?

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HT-EXT
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Re: Housewrecker Driver Support
Reply #8 - 09/27/07 at 14:24:16
 
Finally, someone who likes to crunch numbers as good as I do. When you wire up the DVCs you need to end up with the lowest ohm value possible. This in turn will be determine your amp selection. If you can run a two ohm load I would pick one of the better PA amps but overheating could come into play. If you go to a a four ohm(for example) load you will cut the power output in half. If you use two DVC 15s, I think your only options will be 2 or 8 ohm load. Next pick an amp with at least a 1000 watts or more(Crown,Behringer,QSC,etc.) that can run a two ohm load for extended periods of time. I personally would run one sub in the top chamber and one in the bottom to start with and the way you arrange them is up to you. Clamshelling to me is over-rated. It takes twice as much power and you are already at a -3db disadvantage. The sag issue may be nothing to worry about, I would go ahead and buy two DVCs, build the HWK to specs, and boom from there. I do not see how you could be disappointed with the HWK and Daytons.

HT-EXT
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« Last Edit: 09/28/07 at 18:47:42 by HT-EXT »  

" I TRY TO THINK BUT NUT'EN HAPPENS! " CURLY
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a10299
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Re: Housewrecker Driver Support
Reply #9 - 09/28/07 at 00:44:46
 
To all of those who posted information,

Thank You  :)
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Bart_West-VL.
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Re: Housewrecker Driver Support
Reply #10 - 09/28/07 at 06:16:46
 
HT-EXT,

You said:
"Clamshelling to me is over-rated. It takes twice as much power an you are already at a -3db disadvantage."
First I want to say that clamshelling has the most advantage for cheaper drivers, inferior in SQ. So you can make up for the design faults a bit, when using a clamshell configuration.
second; You have to double the power OR you lose 3dB, no both at the same time, but I think that is what you wanted to say, I was just a bit confused whith that sentence.

Cool I DID learn from you're posts, this is not to undermine you! I was just not sure about what I read. (non-English person here)

Bart

btw, good thread, I hope to read the results, a10299.
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HT-EXT
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Re: Housewrecker Driver Support
Reply #11 - 09/28/07 at 14:19:39
 
No offense taken. My thinking is pretty good but my speech and typing stink! What I was trying to say is if do not double your power you be at a -3db disadvantage. I agree with that cheap speakers work better clamshelled but I also learn from ADRIAN that one well built woofer will out do four cheapos all day long. Case in point I had four MCM 10"s($25 ea.) in a HWK10. The amplifier saw about a five ohm load, with a max output of approx. 250w and an overall spl of 107db(3'/1M) peaking at 63Hz with 50Hz/80Hz very close to the same output. Next I purchased a Dayton 10" HO(on sale for $100). Took out the MCMs and installed the HO in the bottom chamber with the same port set up and amp. The amp saw about 3.7 ohm load(lower ohm equals more power), max output limited to 250 watts and overall spl jump to 114db(3'/1M) peaking at 50Hz with 40Hz/63Hz running neck in neck. There are good and bad to every speaker combo and I have too much time invested in getting four woofers to work descent when I can get two woofers to shake everything in the room.  This is just my two cents, to most it is not worth much but valued by others.


HT-EXT
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« Last Edit: 09/28/07 at 17:40:44 by HT-EXT »  

" I TRY TO THINK BUT NUT'EN HAPPENS! " CURLY
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Bart_West-VL.
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Re: Housewrecker Driver Support
Reply #12 - 09/28/07 at 15:14:54
 
Nice to see real numbers!
Did you take the measurements with a microphone or did you take the resonance measurement with a multi meter or ...
And of course, how did you do this? (I'm all for cheap methods! Roll Eyes)

I agree with what you say: "get one good driver."
Fact is, I have these 4 drivers still laying in the garage.
That's all there is to it, no need to make a choice, I can only build it like that:
housewrecker with RadioShack's Smiley
The ports and volume are still something I want to learn more about, so I can change the sound a bit.
So thanks for all the explaining!

B.
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HT-EXT
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Re: Housewrecker Driver Support
Reply #13 - 09/28/07 at 16:19:52
 
My favorite piece of test equipment the PHONIC PAA2(check link). This is pretty much the best piece of test equipment I have every purchased. You can set up HT, 2 channel, subs, and test different types of enclosures. I am sure it is not the best or highest rate piece of equipment but it gets the job done. For every system I have set up the owners have been very happy with the final results. Becareful around this forum with the numbers, the higher ups seem to get upset when posting results or spl numbers for that matter. You should also remember that the environment you use the HWK in will affect the sound or quality of sound produce. I say go for it. Build the HWK then throw those RS woofers in and BOOM!


HT-EXT

Link:
http://www.musiciansbuy.com/phonic_paa2_personal_audio_assistant_paa2.html
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« Last Edit: 09/28/07 at 18:51:13 by HT-EXT »  

" I TRY TO THINK BUT NUT'EN HAPPENS! " CURLY
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Bart_West-VL.
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Re: Housewrecker Driver Support
Reply #14 - 09/28/07 at 17:40:41
 
I know about 'numbers' Wink and I realize that it's all relative, so... no problems there. Smiley

Cool piece of equipment, but I won't get that, don't need it enough, so it's a bit expensive for me.
Have you ever measured resonance with al multimeter, via a resistor in series? What's you're opinion about that?

B.
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