Forums - ZEN 84C or ZEN Select

Verified Member

Garrard 301, SME5,
Triode Amp, Lumley
Monotors.

Posts: 4

ZEN 84C or ZEN Select
09/05/07 at 16:33:10

Having had a good look through the forum, and elsewhere, I have decided to puchase either the ZEN 84C or the 84ZS, plus the DM944 small monitors. My view at the moment is that the 84C may be the best option as I am not looking for the last word in detail but rather a non-fatiguing involving musical sound. My previous experience of going for extremely revealing kit was the introduction of brightness, particularly in the upper treble, plus listener fatigue. Any views would be appreciated. By the way I am predominently a vinyl man and use a Garrad 301 front end. I was going to ask Decware if they would paint the case of the amp the cream colour of my 301 if that is possible.

Have enjoyed reading the posts on the forum.

Thanks

Steve

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« Last Edit: 09/05/07 at 16:34:08 by Scroggie48 »

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Lon Seasoned Member "Love without guts is worthless!" Philip K. D*ck Posts: 5232	Re: ZEN 84C or ZEN Select Reply #1 - 09/05/07 at 18:51:38 Welcome Steve! I think your thinking is sound! A C and the 944s may be just the ticket, especially with a vinyl rig. Keep us posted!
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MikeW Seasoned Member Late great James Jamerson Posts: 276	Re: ZEN 84C or ZEN Select Reply #2 - 09/05/07 at 21:29:44 Depending on the phono pre you choose, I am sure you would be happy with either of them. I have enjoyed both of the amps and I actually prefer the Select with a vinyl rig. Of course YMMV. Good luck with your decision.
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Andy831

Seasoned Member

Posts: 106

Re: ZEN 84C or ZEN Select
Reply #3 - 09/06/07 at 12:38:35

Hi Steve

We must stop meeting on forums like this lol.

I have heard the 84C and as you know own a pair of Selects. I also use Vinyl 50% of the time and Cd the other 50%. In my opinion whilst I just prefer the Select, its a very very close run thing.

Perhaps the new Creamy white chassis of the New select might just swing it for you.

Andy

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Nottingham Analogue Spacedeck with Spacearm with Denon DL301mk 2 Cart.
Decware ZP2
Sony CDP X-3000 ES
Decware CSP Pre amp
Two Decware SE84CS strapped in parallel
Tannoy Grf Memory Speakers

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Scroggie48

Verified Member

Garrard 301, SME5,
Triode Amp, Lumley
Monotors.

Posts: 4

Re: ZEN 84C or ZEN Select
Reply #4 - 09/06/07 at 18:08:02

Hi Andy,

Well, you can see that I have decided to go for the ZEN amp and that it is just which one to opt for. I agree with you that the Select would be a great match with the 301 colour wise. My only hesitation was if the Select was a brighter sound than the standard ZEN? What would you say to this?

Anyway, thanks again for your previous offer to hear your Selects and If I lived nearer to you then I would do so. I assume your friend doesn't want to sell his 84C?

Thanks, and I will keep you posted.

Steve

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MikeW

Seasoned Member

Late great James
Jamerson

Posts: 276

Re: ZEN 84C or ZEN Select
Reply #5 - 09/06/07 at 22:33:37

The Select is not a brighter sounding amp IMHO. It is faster thereby less forgiving and with my setup a little thinner in the bass than the C. All of that however was remedied with the addition of the CSP preamp which took the Select to another level. I once read in the old forum the Select is for vinyl lovers and the C is for digital lovers (that is a paraphrase). While I do not entirely agree with that, the Select is less forgiving than the C.

Also keep in mind that the Decware speakers have a good synergy with the Decware amps

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One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds.
Zen Select
Zen CSP
Ah Njoe Tjoeb

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veryoldcat

Seasoned Member

dam*ed if you do,
and dam*ed if you
don't

Posts: 370

Re: ZEN 84C or ZEN Select
Reply #6 - 09/07/07 at 02:51:33

I haven't had a "C" so can't compare, directly.

However, one thing to consider that is NOT a subtle difference between the C and the Select, is there is quite a range of rectifiers usable in the Select that would not be recommended for the C. IIRC, this was originally considered one of the bigger advantages in upgrading from the C.

One of the things, for example, that keeps me really hooked on my Select is the sound I get with a Mullard gz32 with several speakers I've tried.

Karl

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SE84CS (vcapped), CSP, zbox, Dec685, ZP 1.0, Sota tt/Well-Tempered Arm/V15XMR, Parker 98's, Parker Audio *Power Chords*, cat 6 wires, OSX; a garage sale of other stuff...

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selmerdave

Seasoned Member

When words fail,
music speaks - HC
Anderson

Posts: 461

Re: ZEN 84C or ZEN Select
Reply #7 - 09/07/07 at 04:15:08

Scroggie48 wrote on 09/06/07 at 18:08:02:

My only hesitation was if the Select was a brighter sound than the standard ZEN? What would you say to this?

I would say no to the hesitation. The circuits are very similar, and the biggest difference soundwise is the parts, and the biggest of those is the coupling capacitors. My amp started out as a C and I modified it to the Select circuit with some nice parts (admittedly not identical to a stock Select). I have compared both circuits reasonably back to back and while the sound is quite similar I slightly prefer it as a Select. The difference in the signature is not in the brightness, there is ever so slightly more detail with the Select but it is also silky smooth and I wouldn't characterize it as brighter. IMO if you like one you'll like the other, and while I like and respect Steve's thinking with respect to the stock coupling caps in the C, nicer caps give an improvement with no drawbacks - better extension and clarity without any glare or sounding bright. Again IMO.

Dave

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Altec 604E's in MLTL cabs biamped w/Rane AC-22
Zen Select on HF
Radio Craftsmen RC-2's on LF
Eico HF-85
VPI HW-19 Mk II, Sonus arm, Grado Gold
CAL Tercet mK IV

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Andy831

Seasoned Member

Posts: 106

Re: ZEN 84C or ZEN Select
Reply #8 - 09/08/07 at 21:15:07

Steve

I think all the last three responses stack up with my experience.

I prefered the select to the C. The bass was enhanced by using a Mullard GZ32 rectifier valve
and Mullard output valves. I then bought a second Select and strapped them into Mono, another improvement. The crowning glory was the introduction of the CSP Preamp. It just gives you more of everything........Audio Nirvana. Well it is for me.......I would not swop these amps for anything I have heard on the planet, Including one of "Kondo Sans" Audio Note Japan 300b Set amps, running with various accuphase and Esoteric front ends.

Andy

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Nottingham Analogue Spacedeck with Spacearm with Denon DL301mk 2 Cart.
Decware ZP2
Sony CDP X-3000 ES
Decware CSP Pre amp
Two Decware SE84CS strapped in parallel
Tannoy Grf Memory Speakers

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Scroggie48 Verified Member Garrard 301, SME5, Triode Amp, Lumley Monotors. Posts: 4	Re: ZEN 84C or ZEN Select Reply #9 - 09/09/07 at 18:36:30 All, Many thanks for your replies which were both helpful and appreciated. I have today placed an order for the SE84ZS and a pair of oak finish DM944's. I will now just have to wait until they arrive in the UK. Regards Steve
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Doorman Seasoned Member "pouring from the empty into the void" Posts: 381	Re: ZEN 84C or ZEN Select Reply #10 - 09/09/07 at 19:46:12 You may have just bought your last amp & speakers! Be sure and post your impressions. Don
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