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Two Halves (Read 31718 times)
60_and_up
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kids should live.

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Re: Two Halves
Reply #60 - 12/03/07 at 21:50:56
 
the sound it produces will change every time you try it in a new position, you really need to experiment with it in lots of different positions before you decide where it will live permanently. i always like my wos pointing into the floor on short legs 3" and in a corner.

NEVER pointing at me.


nice work, well done. enjoy.
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wayan
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Re: Two Halves
Reply #61 - 12/04/07 at 04:43:55
 
i finally managed to take the time and read the instruction manual for the Yamaha amp, and got the Sub out working!


this is what my setup looks like atm (center and surround speakers still missing). I'm moving to a new house in 2 weeks, and there i plan to fix the L/R main speakers to the wall, close to the ceiling, so the position will be the same. then ill have to experiment with the WO position. at the moment i don't really have a choice when it comes to the position of the WO. i just placed it where it fit, ha ha.

sadly the amp that i built is really under powered Sad   the two 10" subs are just a little power hungry, and the "build it yourself" amp parts are not powerful enough. comparing it to my Yamaha amp (both with normal stereo speakers) i think the amp that i built is a little less powerful. so considering that the Yamaha amp is like 70W RMS per channel, i guess the one i built is probably around 50~60W per channel.

i have tried tweaking the setup, so that the Sub is running at its max volume, and set the two main speakers to -20dB. but even then the WO is not really producing enough sound compared to the main speakers. only when i crank up the whole system does the WO start doing its thing.

i have the feeling that i need to upgrade the amp at this point... without buying a complete new one however, how should i go about it? when i was building it together with the electrician, he told me that the capacitators that i bought were really low quality, and that i shuold eventually consider replacing them for a big sound improvement. would that also mean that the amp would be able to increase in the output? or is it just the quality of the sound?

in the case that replacing the capacitators will get me more watts, (being a total newbee to this any advice is always appreciated) what kind should i look for?



these are the four capacitators I'm using at the moment, paid about $2 a piece.

last week while at a music shop i noticed that they had many different kinds of capacitators. some were almost the size of coke cans! is bigger better? lol

ideally would be to also have a sub equalizer I'd imagine, so that i can increase the low frequency gain, and reduce it closer to the cutoff. not sure ill be able to find the right components tho. just a more powerfull amp would be a good start i think.
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60_and_up
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kids should live.

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Re: Two Halves
Reply #62 - 12/04/07 at 16:34:30
 
try turning your wo so the opening fires onto the floor, rest it on a couple of books either side, try it.

i have got amps from charity shops many times, 100 wpc for $15.

are there any charity/thrift stores near you?

e bay also has hundreds of amps for cheap.
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Bart_West-VL.
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Re: Two Halves
Reply #63 - 12/04/07 at 21:42:28
 
If you already say it's underpowered, then upgrading the elco's won't do much, if anything.
Besides, better quality is relative for sub only. Sub's need power, so your amp will never give enough, sorry.  :(
Even if these elco's are low quality, the fact that they are doubled parallel, gives them better reaction time (meaning: half the resistivity)
More would give more punch, dynamics. But the volume won't change! Only power can change that.
If you can rotate the sub, try that too and what 60_and_up said.
Maybe the placement is just bad or your listening position.

From now on, it's experimenting time, let the fun begin! Grin

Bart
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wayan
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Re: Two Halves
Reply #64 - 12/05/07 at 02:28:13
 
just out of curiosity... how do you guys that have a WO go about moving the darn thing? lol

I've given up trying to do it on my own, i prefer to keep my back in one piece. ill have to wait till i move to the new house and get someone to help me with the experimental positioning of the WO.

sigh~ too bad the amp i built is so weak. the box said 2x 400W (800w total) yeah right! i was being optimistic when i bought it and hoped that it could maybe do 150~200W per channel Tongue

oh, and Bart, the measurements that i did was the 24" x 36" i don't want to imagine how hard it would be to move a 36" x 36"!!

cheers
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Bart_West-VL.
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Re: Two Halves
Reply #65 - 12/05/07 at 07:26:42
 
I assume you made the classic mistake most people want to make, he he.
Different power numbers for the same amplifier can have huge differences. Shocked
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_power
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60_and_up
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kids should live.

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Re: Two Halves
Reply #66 - 12/05/07 at 20:52:46
 
wayan wrote on 12/05/07 at 02:28:13:
just out of curiosity... how do you guys that have a WO go about moving the darn thing? lol

I've given up trying to do it on my own, i prefer to keep my back in one piece. ill have to wait till i move to the new house and get someone to help me with the experimental positioning of the WO.

sigh~ too bad the amp i built is so weak. the box said 2x 400W (800w total) yeah right! i was being optimistic when i bought it and hoped that it could maybe do 150~200W per channel Tongue

oh, and Bart, the measurements that i did was the 24" x 36" i don't want to imagine how hard it would be to move a 36" x 36"!!

cheers


its a bitch to move.

150 watts should get it bumping ok, my guess is that your main speakers are more sensitive and get louder before the wo. how EXACTLY is the wo getting its signal?

if you wire your main speakers in mono and paralell (i think) you could cut their sensitivity in half which means the wo would be twice as loud.

or run the main speakers off the plate amp and the wo off the main amp?

or somthing Smiley
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wayan
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Re: Two Halves
Reply #67 - 12/06/07 at 05:15:09
 
the amp that powers the WO (the one i built) runs of the "Sub out" from the Yamaha amp that i have (which automatically cuts off at 90 Hz).

with the Yamaha amp, i can connect up to 5 speakers (for 5.1 surround sound). i cant really switch the the amp around cos then i would loose the ability to use the remote (no remote on the home made amp) and i would have a hard time with the cables too, since i have like the DVD player, cable tv, and radio on Yamaha amp, and only one input on the home made amp. anyhow, what i'm trying to say is that its not possible to change the layout without getting a really 'awkward to operate' sound system!

the only option to improve the WO at this point is to get a stronger amp, which is something i cant afford at the moment. there are no cheap second hand shops selling amp's, nor can i buy it from E-bay, cos i don't have a credit card atm, and to ship something all the way to Indonesia would probably cost more than the amp itself!

in truth the WO does get loud! (with the amp i made), but only when i turn up the whole system, which i don't really want to do, cos the neighbors would probably end up lobbing bricks at my house! lol

Peace~
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60_and_up
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Re: Two Halves
Reply #68 - 12/06/07 at 16:17:25
 
can you adjust the output of the 5 channels indipendantly?

turn the speakers down so the wo is louder?
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wayan
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Re: Two Halves
Reply #69 - 12/07/07 at 06:29:31
 
yeah, i already did that, I've adjusted the 2 main speakers volume down to the max i could, -20dB

its already a noticeable difference, but not enough, lol

silly power hungry WO Tongue

I'm happy with the WO, and look forward to trying the face down position when i get it to the new house.

i even got a complaint from my girl friend when she was not able to figure out how to switch on the WO, and had to watch a movie with out it, ha ha i guess its not only me that notices the difference Smiley

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60_and_up
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kids should live.

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Re: Two Halves
Reply #70 - 12/07/07 at 17:29:00
 
please try it wo face down resting on a couple books about 2 inches gap between the mouth of the wo and the floor.

pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeese,

it will only take 2 mins?

90 degree rotation clockwise, its a real simple move.
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Bart_West-VL.
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Re: Two Halves
Reply #71 - 12/07/07 at 20:08:09
 
Hey Wayan!

Are you OK? Just heard about the quake in indonesia. Shocked

You didn't cause it with your WO I presume?!  ;)

Bart
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wayan
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Re: Two Halves
Reply #72 - 12/08/07 at 02:24:50
 
60_and_up, i will turn it around when i move Tongue only another week, lol and yes it would only take 2 minutes, but i would risk damaging the paint job in those 2 minutes, trying to rotate the WO in such a small space!

about the quake, not sure if its the same one that you heard about, but i did feel it last night! i was still in the office with one other colleague, we started getting out, but half way down it stopped... it wasn't very noticeable here in Bali, the epicenter must have been some way off.

thanks for the concern Smiley peace~
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Bart_West-VL.
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Re: Two Halves
Reply #73 - 12/08/07 at 09:07:28
 
Good to hear you're fine.

Another important thing I found. (you know I sit at the computer night and day, doing research for you! Kiss)

"A 75dB SPL signal on the LFE channel will be 3 times, or 10dB, smaller than a 75dB SPL signal on the other channels. It will only sound correct when fed to an amplifier that amplifies LFE by 10dB more than it amplifies the other channels."

That's why you're WO sounds a bit silent I guess.

Here's the link to the article:
http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=748147
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wayan
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Re: Two Halves
Reply #74 - 12/10/07 at 05:20:28
 
so in other words; i need a bigger and better amp! yeah i already figured that one out Tongue

i wasn't aware of those facts however, but those symptoms do match those of my silent WO epidemic.

not sure where i read it, but if i'm not mistaken, for every 3 dB (which is the doubling of sound?) i need like a hundred or so more watts output, no?

in that case, to increase it by 10dB to equalize the difference between the WO and the normal speakers (that are fed by a 70W per chanel) i need like urr.... no idea, maybe 70W plus 300~400W rms per channel? thats way out of my league, he he...

although i am not not able to do anything about it for the time being, it is still interesting to find these things out, to better understand the technical aspects, and reasons for the WO to work properly.

I'm afraid we have almost come to an end with reasons for research (at least for this thread). i think i now know how to improve my WO at this point.

1st ill test out the face down thing, and maybe a couple positions in the room (after i move to the new house, this week end)

2nd when ive managed to get enough moneh, ill have to invest in a better amp, preferably one made for Subs.

by the way, when people use the WO in their cars (or at home), at what frequency do they usually set the cut off? my amp does it at 90 Hz. it doesn't give me the option to adjust it, which would have been something interesting to experiment with. i would think that the WO would be still good at 100~120 Hz. so Bart, here is maybe the last question i got for ya; what do you think is a good cut off frequency for the WO~

ciao,
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