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6" driver In a WO (completed) (images) (Read 12003 times)
Deform
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6" driver In a WO (completed) (images)
06/14/07 at 06:13:11
 
OK, so i want to put in two 6" drivers so all i would need to do is scale it by half? So use 18x18 square base with 4" 2" for the 'drawing-up' of it and 1" for the 'throat'?

Cheers  :)
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« Last Edit: 08/21/07 at 01:48:36 by Deform »  
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Gexter
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Re: Quick 6" driver scaling
Reply #1 - 06/28/07 at 04:24:21
 
Odd.
I never saw this post not that it matters now. Hot heads!

I tend to move along without having a temper tantrum and flaming a bunch of people I do not even know.
Oh well. Glad I only have to really care about temper tantrums from my children and my handicapped clients.
That said if this pup comes back to see if he hurt anyone and made them feel naughty for either missing or ignoring his post I will offer my useless and empty advice.

I know that some have had success scaling the whole thing. I have only had success by lowering the height to accept the smaller sub. I have built some scaled WO's and found them loud boomy and a pain to crossover to make it sound decent.
No matter what I did I could not make them sound as good as the simple full size layout and a lower height.
So I cannot answer your question Deform because of my lack of success. if you want a loud box with no SQ by all means go for it. you really never know until you try.
There has been a few that scaled the WO and liked the sound, I was not one of them and the ones I know of have moved along or rarely visit now.
I will tell you the ones I did were really loud but sucked in deep bass and difficult to crossover. they also were either way to tight and to high or boomy and to high

I hope that helps its the best I can do.
I doubt you will answer this and admit that you were perhaps a little harsh and apologize.
But you never know, some people are bigger than just their emotional state.

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« Last Edit: 06/28/07 at 04:28:43 by gexter »  
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musgofasa
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Re: Quick 6" driver scaling
Reply #2 - 06/28/07 at 18:05:08
 
I never saw this post either Gex,
I guess it got lost in the timing when I wasn't on the forum or when I was busy elsewhere. It is a shame that someone couldn't just post a quick "hello, did anyone see this post?" or even a "bump".

For the record, I agree with Gex. The WO is very friendly when built to the same dimensions and changing the height, but gets to be a bit of a beast when you change the width at all. I am guessing that the angles and openings act a lot more like a horn that I originally thought. It isn't long enough for the theory to hold out, but when it gets truncated it gets very hard to work with.

Take care,
Robert
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Adrian
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Re: Quick 6" driver scaling
Reply #3 - 06/29/07 at 21:39:57
 
Deform wrote on 06/28/07 at 03:48:44:
OK then you can all burn in hell... is it that hard to help a n00b? Well it must be...

that's what i call over-reacting. there has been a post in the past (with a pic) about the scaled down wo. maybe reasearch ?
my memory is failing
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Too much bass never hurts, or does it ?
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Blotch
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Re: Quick 6" driver scaling
Reply #4 - 07/04/07 at 23:36:52
 
Sheesh - take a chill - 2 posts and one of em is a whine. I just posted quite a long post on a 18X18 WO. 6.5" drivers WONT fit. The 4" drivers I used barely fit. 6.5" drivers MIGHT fit in a Half-scaled WO32 but not a WO.
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Deform
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Re: Quick 6" driver scaling
Reply #5 - 07/25/07 at 04:30:14
 
Yes, i agree perhaps i did over-react, although i did end up getting a respose so i suppose that i did succed in the end, and to those who were offended by my harsh words i appoligise.
I ended up making the 6 1/2" box, with 16mm MDF and two Jacycar 6.5" woofers, although the design was altered to 20" square and a total of about 8" tall with the throat being around 1".
It's not the most cosmetic thing i've seen mainly due to the err... 'odd' workmanship probably because this was my first ever sub-box which i built.
It's currently waiting at my mates place awiting some foam and carpet aswell as needing a more powerfull amplifier than the miserable thing i have now. i'll get around to posting some pictures if anyone is interested.
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Jet-Lee
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Re: Quick 6" driver scaling
Reply #6 - 07/25/07 at 20:59:44
 
how's the output?
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Gexter
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Re: Quick 6" driver scaling
Reply #7 - 07/26/07 at 01:00:09
 
Deform wrote on 07/25/07 at 04:30:14:
Yes, i agree perhaps i did over-react, although i did end up getting a respose so i suppose that i did succed in the end, and to those who were offended by my harsh words i appoligise.
I ended up making the 6 1/2" box, with 16mm MDF and two Jacycar 6.5" woofers, although the design was altered to 20" square and a total of about 8" tall with the throat being around 1".
It's not the most cosmetic thing i've seen mainly due to the err... 'odd' workmanship probably because this was my first ever sub-box which i built.
It's currently waiting at my mates place awiting some foam and carpet aswell as needing a more powerfull amplifier than the miserable thing i have now. i'll get around to posting some pictures if anyone is interested.


Sure pictures are always good. and thanks for coming back, the more the merrier you know!
Look forward to it.
I lurk at a lot of forums and sometimes questions never get answered so don't feel singled out. I have also made posts years ago elsewhere that remain unanswered along with Pm's.
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Matthew
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Re: Quick 6" driver scaling
Reply #8 - 07/26/07 at 02:30:21
 
Agreed!  I felt sort of sad inside that someone came along, got disappointed and left so quickly.  I guess they didn't leave afterall.   Wink
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Deform
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Late to update *no pics yet*
Reply #9 - 08/06/07 at 02:34:36
 
I'm still here although i haven't got any pictures for you all yet. I'm still in the process of building my crossovers and i'm still witout a powerfull enough amp.  :(
It's not looking that bad although i'm not too sure aboot the throat that it has as it is square in the corner and is probably a little too close to the sides.
Does anyone reccomend deadening it with anything?
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Gexter
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Re: Quick 6" driver scaling
Reply #10 - 08/06/07 at 05:26:48
 
I used dacron stuffing in the sealed chamber
I used some 3M thinsulate to line the compression chamber and the first bend to the base of the V.
With the higher freq tendencies of the smaller drivers I feel that its the thing to do.
but I do it quite often with other subs.

Steve says that nothing is needed and while I would never disagree its just something I do anyway.
Hope that helps It looks like I caught you you right off this time. Wink
Gex
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Deform
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Re: Quick 6" driver scaling
Reply #11 - 08/20/07 at 02:16:09
 
AHHHHHHHHH!!!! Woo, it's finished and sounding fantastic. Although i want to put it in a sedan and see how it sounds while its not in a hatch-back.
Well, It is together and in my car getting around 200wrms, and i have a low pass of about 80Hz for the moment and it is all sounding good, i have only had a preliminary fiddle with getting the dound right but it looks very promising.
My mate cannot belive that two 80wrms 6" can play like that and are able to hit as low as they do (my car has rattles now...).
I have pictures but seeing as i dont have the net at home i'm finding it hard to get them up. The box was my first and was a steep learning curve for me but other than some 'chuffing' as the throats are a little narrow, it all went well.
I'm going to get some stuffing for the box as i know that the sealed section is nowhere near the size that it should be and i'm not too sure aboot inverting the drivers (any help?).
I'm planning to build my next one soon.
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Deform
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Re: 6" driver In a WO (completed)
Reply #12 - 08/21/07 at 01:47:24
 
Righty-O I've got some pictures of progress to date. I'm no too sure how to upload them but i hope this works.





Well that's it sitting on the diagram for the 36"x36" version of the box.





This was just a shot of the speaker sitting in (through) the baffle.





And a top-view.

I should get some new pics on here some time soon but i'm not too sure.
Comments?
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Deform
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Re: 6" driver In a WO (completed) (images)
Reply #13 - 08/25/07 at 04:01:12
 
Bump
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Bart_West-VL.
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Re: 6" driver In a WO (completed) (images)
Reply #14 - 08/25/07 at 07:41:24
 
That look realy good, i'ts cute!  :D
Nice and small, great for a room that's not to big, for students?
how does it sounds in a room?
Any testing indoors yet?

Good job!
ow yeah, what is the fs of those 6" drivers?

Bart
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« Last Edit: 08/25/07 at 07:42:33 by Bart_West-VL. »  
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Deform
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Re: 6" driver In a WO (completed) (images)
Reply #15 - 08/27/07 at 03:38:32
 
Humm, the site claims an Fs of 39 Hz i'll give you the link if you wanted to have a look.
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=CW2135&CATID=&keywords=woofer&SPECIA...
I think that it has potential perhaps with a set of computer speakers or a small home thearter set-up. No in-house use from it currently but when i find a moment i'll see what it can do inside.

Cheers Cheesy
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Bart_West-VL.
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Re: 6" driver In a WO (completed) (images)
Reply #16 - 08/27/07 at 09:37:52
 
That doesn't look bad for 6.5" drivers.
Of course, you can't expect results like you would from a set of 10" drivers.
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BigAir
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Re: 6" driver In a WO (completed) (images)
Reply #17 - 10/06/07 at 05:34:20
 
Hmm, according to my calculations and using Steve's method for scaling, a WO for 6's would be about about 4" tall.  That would make it impossilbe for 6's to fit.   Sure, you could change the width and depth, but that would make the all important horn length radically different and severly throw off the tuning.  It mght make for an outstanding midbass box, but I don't think it would work well as a true sub box.  8-)
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« Last Edit: 10/06/07 at 05:35:55 by BigAir »  
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Deform
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Re: 6" driver In a WO (completed) (images)
Reply #18 - 10/11/07 at 04:35:00
 
Oh didn't i mention it is 4" tall Tongue
Yes i've heard it all before and in know how sound works and yes what bass actually is... and that 6" will never be able to give effective results, but you are forgetting that we are all different people and what sounds good to me might'n sound good to you.
Personally i wouldn't use the design that i ended up with for a midbass box because i think that yes the tuning is completely off and it sounds sh1te for dedicated midbass.
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« Last Edit: 10/11/07 at 04:36:14 by Deform »  
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BigAir
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Re: 6" driver In a WO (completed) (images)
Reply #19 - 10/12/07 at 18:23:13
 
Deform wrote on 10/11/07 at 04:35:00:
Oh didn't i mention it is 4" tall Tongue


Yes, you did.  However, you also said that it's only 18"x18".  That's the problem.  It should be 36x36x4.  I'd try it again with the same drivers and just build it Steve's specs except for the height.  The toughest cuts would be the angled baffles that would be needed.  However, if you already built one that's 4 inches tall, you should be able to do the baffles again.
By the way, after looking at your pictures, it looks like you have a 6" driver in a 4" thick WO.  How did you do that?  Either those aren't 6's or your box is thicker than 4".
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« Last Edit: 10/12/07 at 18:56:35 by BigAir »  
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Blotch
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Re: 6" driver In a WO (completed) (images)
Reply #20 - 10/22/07 at 04:39:47
 
You have to scale ALL dimensions not just the width/depth or just the height. I posted a long time ago as well as others a way of scaling a wo. 20X20X8 on the outside is slightly smaller than my calculation of 23.4X23.4X8.125 but is prolly close enough Smiley Wonder what,if any, difference it would make sound-wise if ya rounded up the dimensions to 24X24X9 on the outside.....Hmmmmmm
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BigAir
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Re: 6" driver In a WO (completed) (images)
Reply #21 - 10/23/07 at 04:28:22
 
Blotch wrote on 10/22/07 at 04:39:47:
You have to scale ALL dimensions not just the width/depth or just the height.


Not according to Steve.  
Keep in mind that if you want a box that is half the size you would only scale one dimension by half.  Anything other than the height and you would change the horn length and throw the tuning way off.  Normally, horns use the size of the cone to determine the size of the horn from the very start to the finish.  The length of the horn will change the tuning.  That's why Steve says if you want to use a 12" driver, just scale the height up by 2 inches.  For an 8, you go down by 2 inches.  Think of it as volume.  Scale the volume by some mulitple that corresponds to the driver cone area, keep the horn length the same and you should be golden.  If you want a higher tune, then shorten the length.  However, don't expect your WO to play as deep unless you keep the horn length the same.
You should go back in the archives and look up what others (including myself) have done. Anything above a 12 or below a 8 is pretty difficult to make work, but it can be done.
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Gexter
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Re: 6" driver In a WO (completed) (images)
Reply #22 - 10/24/07 at 04:36:55
 
Lots of post for me today.
I have to step in and agree with Big Air. I have scaled boxes and also just shortened the height. I have used the full size dimension except the height with much more success.
And even that took some tweaking. We all do like different sound in a sub but few of us like a midbass heavy box. This will occur with a smaller driver and smaller fold.
When you run up to tens and bigger drivers with a low VAS  you can get away with scaling the enclosure.

But do what you like and if it make you happy then its all good.
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bnew63
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Re: 6" driver In a WO (completed) (images)
Reply #23 - 10/25/07 at 00:58:06
 
I built a 6" WO and it wound up 24x24x 7.5 OD.
It won't hold a candle to it's bigger brother but it's still a descent(cheap)sub.

Brian
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Deform
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Re: 6" driver In a WO (completed) (images)
Reply #24 - 11/05/07 at 02:01:50
 
been a while for me...

well sorry no it's not scaled to anything specific i simply halved all of the measurements to 18x18 then added extra for the 1/2" MDF and it ended up 20x20 with a height near 8" total.

I stress that this is my first ever attempt at woodwork and box making for that matter.

I know that as soon as you start scaling things like this it will never be the same as the original and that i cant directly compare this to the WO but that was the design it was based on. I want to have a go at making more horns and trialing more WO designs and a WO32 aswell. But for the moment the shed it full of my brothers gear because he decided to move house and borrow the shed.

Thanks for all the input and i'll let you know when i can start building a better WO.
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BigAir
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Re: 6" driver In a WO (completed) (images)
Reply #25 - 11/05/07 at 15:02:51
 
Deform wrote on 11/05/07 at 02:01:50:
I stress that this is my first ever attempt at woodwork and box making for that matter.


Deform, I commend you for experimenting with box design.  Where would we be today if people like yourself and most of the forum dwellers didn't do any experimenting?
Good job and keep up the good work.
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Blotch
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Re: 6" driver In a WO (completed) (images)
Reply #26 - 11/15/07 at 07:50:32
 
Damn...after thinking about it - yall are definetly right about the scaling providing you want to keep the same frequency response. I'm not sure my little 4" experiment drivers would do a full scale wo justice considering the driver fs is around 75hz. Think that was the main reason I scaled all the dimensions - trying to keep the design within the drivers useful range Smiley Now I HAVE to build another - be awhile though, just bought a house and the garage needs the interior finished Smiley
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AussieDB
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Re: 6" driver In a WO (completed) (images)
Reply #27 - 11/28/07 at 23:15:04
 
Hi guys, First post yay!!

I live in AUS too, the link to the driver is here.

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=CW2135&CATID=15&keywords=&SPECIAL=&f...

were lucky to have a product from jaycar that is so cheap but effective! they have so many things to choose from. You can get these drivers for under $30 from the right places!

by the way specs are:

- Nominal impedance: 8ohms
- Power handling: 80 watts RMS
- Freq range: 39Hz - 3000Hz
- Sensitivity: 87dB 1watt 1metre
- Voice Coil Resistance (Re): 6.9ohms
- Resonant frequency (fs): 39Hz
- Mechanical Q factor (Qms): 6.027
- Electrical Q factor (Qes): 0.466
- Total Q factor (Qts): 0.433
- Equivalent Volume (Vas): 20.9Lt
- Cone Area (square metres): 0.0133

Cheers,
James
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