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Doubling..Wait No Tripling the Number of WOs I Own (Read 6517 times)
JRock
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Doubling..Wait No Tripling the Number of WOs I Own
04/30/07 at 16:32:02
 
Thats right ladys and gents- I just began construction on several more Wicked Ones...

I have built roughly 6 so far, but I only own 1 now-a-days.  So I thought, I need to remedy this situation, and the build was concieved.

First off, My current WO is loaded with 2 Infinity Reference Series 1032W.  They pound like no other, and the WO dominates any enclosure I have ever had them in.

I figured since the current one was such a performer, I would build a second one exactly like it to replace the weak sealed enclosure in my daily driver.  So I will place my other 2 Infinity 1032W in the second WO I will own, the first one I am building now.

For the Third WO- a pair of Dayton Series II:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-110&scqty...
Powered off a slightly oversized Planet Audio VX3002, each sub will get their 250 wrms, and then some- with roughly 300wrms going to each sub.

I have already cut everything for two WOs and assembled one WO- no subs loaded though.  No pictures of stacks of wood or the finished WO- but I plan to snap pictures of the build process of the 2 WO I am building.

Thought I would let everyone who cares know- and offer a chance for anyone who is hesitant to build a WO or needs construction advice to reply here and request certain pictures, or descriptions of trouble spots.  Basically- if you need help on part of your WO- let me know which part and I can hopefully shed some light on the subject while I build my 8th WO...
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Adrian
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Re: Doubling..Wait No Tripling the Number of WOs I
Reply #1 - 04/30/07 at 20:09:22
 
nice initiative. i'm waiting for pics.
btw, did you buy the amp from a guy called Acidburn ?
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aznboi3644
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Re: Doubling..Wait No Tripling the Number of WOs I
Reply #2 - 05/01/07 at 02:54:40
 
I really wanna build a WO...but I suck at cutting the angles right.

Any trick to this??? Or is there a certain angle that you cut all of yours????

I wanna build a couple 36x36 WO's cuz I have an Explorer and can fit it
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60_and_up
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Re: Doubling..Wait No Tripling the Number of WOs I
Reply #3 - 05/01/07 at 05:57:16
 
aznboi3644 wrote on 05/01/07 at 02:54:40:
I really wanna build a WO...but I suck at cutting the angles right.

Any trick to this??? Or is there a certain angle that you cut all of yours????

I wanna build a couple 36x36 WO's cuz I have an Explorer and can fit it


cut 1 piece at a time and you can build anything. its not brain surgery, get a saw and a tape measure and get  busy.
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seldom
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Re: Doubling..Wait No Tripling the Number of WOs I
Reply #4 - 05/01/07 at 06:24:13
 
When my friend and I built our WO, we made all the cuts straight and planed the angles!  Yes, even the extreme angles of the V wedge. And it turned out pristine perfect - not a gap to be seen.  Took two days to build, but not bad for rank amateurs!
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Adrian
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Re: Doubling..Wait No Tripling the Number of WOs I
Reply #5 - 05/01/07 at 21:42:20
 
i made all the angles on my wo using an orbital sander and a wood rasp.
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musgofasa
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Re: Doubling..Wait No Tripling the Number of WOs I
Reply #6 - 05/02/07 at 01:35:57
 
Wow,
I thought I was bad. I have probably built 10 or 12 WOs total too. It is fun after the second or third one.
The way I do the angles is to draw the plans out on the top and bottom boards on both sides first. The I take pieces of 3/4 board and draw out the lines where the boards will go using the actual wood. (This gives me the lines to put the nails and screws in later.
To get the angles, I simply took the boards that were to be cut and sat them down on the top or bottom in position and marked them on either side. Then I took and connected the lines on the side of the board and used that to line up the saw. I haven't built one in years, but as I recall, when you build the box 36x36 all the cuts are the same angle. Either that or there were only two angles (maybe because of the deep V?)

I know another guy who did the whole angle calculations on his and went by that. Of course this guy used 1" wood and routed the inside panels into the top and bottom like a tongue and groove fit before nailing and gluing. He was more fanatical than me and most call me a perfectionist lol.

Take care,
Robert
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aznboi3644
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Re: Doubling..Wait No Tripling the Number of WOs I
Reply #7 - 05/02/07 at 06:19:34
 
sweet...well thanks.

I'm getting a random orbital sander here soon...I'll post up pics of my WO
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JRock
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Re: Doubling..Wait No Tripling the Number of WOs I
Reply #8 - 05/02/07 at 16:44:08
 
Yeah- the 36 x 36 version yields all the angles identical I believe.  Both of the WOs I am building now are 24 x 36.  Each angle is different, but only off by 3 degree or so from the largest one to the smallest one.  

For cutting the V- I actually "butted" the two pieces together rather then cut two identical pieces with that extreme angle on them.  

To measure and cut the angles I use a sliding t- Bevel.  It allows me to do what Musgofasa(layout the entire outline on the top and bottom) then match the bevel up to the layout.  Then I just crank the blade on my tablesaw over until it matched the T-Bevel and make the cut.  

Another trick is to cut the angles on the pieces with one square end first, then cut the square end to the exact length you need.  

As I cut the pieces for both of these WOs I got to do everything 4 times.  It was a blast, but is hard to keep pieces straight, so I label alot of stuff.  Especially since the subs require different sized cutouts- I don't want two different subs fitting in each WO because I mixed the baffle's up.

I should resume construction this weekend at the latest...  Pics by then for sure.
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JRock
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Re: Doubling..Wait No Tripling the Number of WOs I
Reply #9 - 05/07/07 at 05:45:36
 
Well first off- the mess picture!



Next- a close up to show you all what I was trying to describe with the V cut-


Heres a overview- (sorry for the motion sickness)


Heres a picture of the Dayton's going in the one WO.  It gives you an idea of their build quality.  The speakers also say they are made by eminence if anybody cared.


Heres a shot of the insides getting painted.  I plan to cover most of both the WOs with plastic laminates by Formica, but these are areas deep inside the box I don't want to attempt to cover.


And finally, the cars the WOs will go in!  First up is my car, a 2002 Nissan Sentra.  It will be recieving the WO with the Infinitys in it:


And a 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix.  It gets the Dayton WO:


If you layout the Wicked One correctly, and cut the V pieces like I pictured above- the adjacent angles are the same.  In other words- the angles in the same color circles should be the same no matter what size between 24 and 36 the WO is.  In the 36 x 36 version(If I remember correctly) all the angles are the same.

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Adrian
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Re: Doubling..Wait No Tripling the Number of WOs I
Reply #10 - 05/07/07 at 11:08:31
 
excelent build Smiley
that's just how i did the V. seemed the easiest way.
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musgofasa
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Re: Doubling..Wait No Tripling the Number of WOs I
Reply #11 - 05/07/07 at 18:26:27
 
Yup,
I forgot about the V, but I did it the same way. Made more sense than trying to get the edges to meet in the middle.
The angles aren't exactly the same in the 36" WO. I was talking to Bob about that this weekend and he confirmed that they are slightly different. I think part of that thinking is the V being so sharp, but even without it I think there is a 1 or 2 degree difference in the front, back and middle angles.
Great job. I can't wait to hear the review on the Daytons in this box in a car.

Let us know how it turns out!

Take care,
Robert
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Re: Doubling..Wait No Tripling the Number of WOs I
Reply #12 - 05/08/07 at 01:31:31
 
This is how we did the V as well - the angles still count as "extreme" to a person who has to hand plane them down to the right angle...  I can't imagine cutting the pieces to make a symmetrical joint at the V; it seems to be generally accepted to do the joint this way.  There's something quite elegant and satisfying about the WO, is there not?  I always like to see build pics of it!
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JRock
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Re: Doubling..Wait No Tripling the Number of WOs I
Reply #13 - 05/08/07 at 06:34:38
 
Ah yes- the elegance of the WO.  It is just amazing as you start fromt he begining and get to the final steps...  Something about how simplistic the layout and cuts are in relation to the unique design and awesome sound.

I too can't wait for the Daytons- they haven't even seen power yet.  I have a feeling they will rock my world.  Only problem is I will have to try to trade with my friend, and if they sound good I doubt that will happen.
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Re: Doubling..Wait No Tripling the Number of WOs I
Reply #14 - 05/19/07 at 04:30:49
 
Is it normal to have the open cone facing into the sealed enclosure and the basket/spider of the speaker out into the horn, the baffle could b moved to correct volume of course but I have always had the basket in the sealed protion of a bandpass box out of habit I suppose and thinking the sound will be cleaner? Has anyone anyone tried isobarik/face to face loading of 4 subs in the same enclosure? I also see most of the builds on here use different subs with what seems to be the same WO design, does the sealed section need to be varied to match the speakers own specs or am I on the wrong track with who the horns operate?
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Dirty_Dawg
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Re: Doubling..Wait No Tripling the Number of WOs I
Reply #15 - 05/21/07 at 12:42:12
 
I made four quad-iso-loaded WOs and use them for a band's PA. I really don't notice much difference in the sound, until you start getting into driver power compression. The sound is much "cleaner" with iso-loading when you are pushing them hard- not much difference, otherwise. I also added an outer skin of plywood and some external bracing/skids to beef up the sides a bit. They take quite a beating and raw MDF does not hold up to road use very well, by itself.

I wouldn't alter the chambers, unless you know what you are doing and can confirm benefits through proper testing.

I noticed a slightly lower tuning when I was using a single driver loading and had the magnet structure in the open chamber, compared to keeping the magnet in the sealed chamber. I think the main benefit to having the magnet in the open chamber would be increased cooling ability.
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« Last Edit: 05/21/07 at 18:42:35 by Dirty_Dawg »  

Anxiously watching as the whirling wind scoops up and hurls into oblivion the chalky white dust that was once the rank bones of my final oppressor, I relax finally, as I have survived again.
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JRock
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Re: Doubling..Wait No Tripling the Number of WOs I
Reply #16 - 05/22/07 at 06:46:54
 
Steve D recommends placing the basket of the woofers you are using in the compression chamber to achieve a lower tuning.  It decreases the amount of higher frequency supposedly.  I haven't noticed much difference in actual listening though, but if it supposedly does something good for a subwoofer application- lower response- and I can't detect a difference either way, I just do as Steve says.  If I had tried it and heard a difference, I would do whatever sounded best to me- so try either way before finishing the WO.
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Dirty_Dawg
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Re: Doubling..Wait No Tripling the Number of WOs I
Reply #17 - 05/22/07 at 14:53:35
 

Wow. I noticed a lot more high, midbass frequencies with the "front" of the driver facing the port (I was not using the Decware drivers - they were JBL).  I wasn't concerned as much, because that's what crossovers are for. Just goes to show you that you need to try it all for yourself and choose the results you like best for your application.

Wink
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Anxiously watching as the whirling wind scoops up and hurls into oblivion the chalky white dust that was once the rank bones of my final oppressor, I relax finally, as I have survived again.
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60_and_up
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Re: Doubling..Wait No Tripling the Number of WOs I
Reply #18 - 05/23/07 at 20:20:48
 
Dirty_Dawg wrote on 05/22/07 at 14:53:35:
Wow. I noticed a lot more high, midbass frequencies with the "front" of the driver facing the port
Wink



makes zero sense dirt?

care to elabortate, same sub same x over point just reversed the driver and different cut off freq?

doubt it  :-/

obviously without the magnet inside it the sealed part of the wo is bigger (no sub displacement) and that would account for slightly

lower bass, which might be mis interepreted as 'more midbass' when driver is reversed?

but you are geting very old, and we could forgive this amateur mistake  ;)
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aznboi3644
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Re: Doubling..Wait No Tripling the Number of WOs I
Reply #19 - 05/23/07 at 20:37:56
 
yeah but sub displacement is not enough to make a noticeable difference unless the sub has a HUGE magnet and basket
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Dirty_Dawg
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Re: Doubling..Wait No Tripling the Number of WOs I
Reply #20 - 05/24/07 at 14:32:19
 
aznboi3644 wrote on 05/23/07 at 20:37:56:
yeah but sub displacement is not enough to make a noticeable difference unless the sub has a HUGE magnet and basket


Don't make me do math, today, please. When you have a huge enclossure, I agree, the speaker displacement is insignificant in the real world. When you have a sealed chamber that is only a couple of cubic feet, the difference between subtracting the driver displacement and adding the driver displacement becomes more noticeable. It seems to me that when I increased the sealed chamber by two basket volumes (the difference between the driver mounted one way compared to mounting it the other way) it made a significant difference in the lower range of response.

Whether the octave above 100Hertz is easier to hear, with the air pressure slinking around the magnet or not, becomes less significant than the actual volumes involved. I'm talking about a listening test for seat-of-the-pants feel plus some perfunctory measurements using a cheap Radio Shack decibel meter. I don't know which box tuning program someone could use to model the Wicked One, though.

Also, don't forget the diameter of the cut-out times the 1.5 inches you gain by mounting the driver completely inside the vented chamber. It makes a difference, because the volumes we are dealing with are small, or at least similar to the driver Vas. Taking your statement to the logical conclusion would lead us to thinking that the volumes are insignificant, in total. We would not need to measure anything.
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« Last Edit: 05/24/07 at 14:44:57 by Dirty_Dawg »  

Anxiously watching as the whirling wind scoops up and hurls into oblivion the chalky white dust that was once the rank bones of my final oppressor, I relax finally, as I have survived again.
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Dirty_Dawg
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Re: Doubling..Wait No Tripling the Number of WOs I
Reply #21 - 05/24/07 at 14:41:16
 
60_and_up wrote on 05/23/07 at 20:20:48:
makes zero sense dirt?

care to elabortate, same sub same x over point just reversed the driver and different cut off freq?

doubt it  :-/

obviously without the magnet inside it the sealed part of the wo is bigger (no sub displacement) and that would account for slightly

lower bass, which might be mis interepreted as 'more midbass' when driver is reversed?

but you are geting very old, and we could forgive this amateur mistake  ;)


If I build it I will come ... or something like that?

Thanks for reminding me to wipe my chin when I drool, but I'm not sure what is unclear (Alzheimer's, too?). One thing Steve has always tried to make us mindful of is that "Everything" makes a difference. Some differences are worth pursuing and some are not. Switching a driver around is easy and worth trying.



MODDED:
Oh, I think I get what you are saying.
How about, instead of a different "cut off freq" (I'm not sure how that applies to the WO, anyway) a noticeable difference in behavior near the cut off freq?
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« Last Edit: 05/24/07 at 18:51:06 by Dirty_Dawg »  

Anxiously watching as the whirling wind scoops up and hurls into oblivion the chalky white dust that was once the rank bones of my final oppressor, I relax finally, as I have survived again.
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Adrian
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Re: Doubling..Wait No Tripling the Number of WOs I
Reply #22 - 05/24/07 at 15:14:40
 
a rather normal 10 can have a displacement of about 0.1 cf. which isn't neglijable in such small enclosures.
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JRock
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Re: Doubling..Wait No Tripling the Number of WOs I
Reply #23 - 05/25/07 at 06:41:16
 
Well Dirt- I noticed a change, but wether it was a percieved change, or an actual change was to be determined.  I wasn't sure if I was hearing more highs with the magnet in the sealed chamber, or my mind thought I was because I was told thats what happens.

As far as the impact- not only are you changing the size of the sealed chamber you change the size of the compression chamber.  Say your 10 only has .1 cu ft displacement- and say with the magnet in the sealed chamber the volume of the sealed chamber is 1 cu ft, while the compression chamber is also 1 cu ft.  If we move the magnet to reside in the compression chamber, we end up with a sealed chamber of 1.1 cu ft, and a compression chamber of .9 cu ft.  Now the ratio between the two are different, and each chamber is a different volume.  So in this case, even .1 cu ft driver displacement has the potential to change alot in the WO design.

As far as testing goes-  I absolutely love the Dayton WO.  It blows my mind.  The Infinity WO seems to dig a little deeper, and the Daytons are much more efficient (especially in the upper limits of their acoustical range.)

The dayton abolutely needs an XO- and a steep one at that for me.  I really dig a slightly odd shaped curve for now- the results of mismatched XO frequencies on the AMP and HU.  I have the HU at 125hz and the amp at 80 hz.  Results in a 12db rolloff from 80 hz up to 125 hz, where the slopes combine for steeper rolloff of 24db.  The Daytons end up being highly authoritive in the lowest frequencies, yet punchy and hard hitting in the upper range where the kick drum is.  Listening to heavey metal gives you an idea of what sub speed is all about- you are actually able to hear individual slams of kick drums when drummers are going to town rather then the boring drone poor ported designs offer.

I could really type for awhile about how they make all my music sound better- and its amazing how many rattles went away when I changed from the Infinitys in a sealed (albiet poorly sealed) enclosure to the Daytons in the WO.  Its a night and day difference with the WO doing everything the Sealed enclosure dreamed about when it sleeps at night.
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