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Doubling..Wait No Tripling the Number of WOs I Own (Read 6401 times)
Dirty_Dawg
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Re: Doubling..Wait No Tripling the Number of WOs I
Reply #15 - 05/21/07 at 12:42:12
 
I made four quad-iso-loaded WOs and use them for a band's PA. I really don't notice much difference in the sound, until you start getting into driver power compression. The sound is much "cleaner" with iso-loading when you are pushing them hard- not much difference, otherwise. I also added an outer skin of plywood and some external bracing/skids to beef up the sides a bit. They take quite a beating and raw MDF does not hold up to road use very well, by itself.

I wouldn't alter the chambers, unless you know what you are doing and can confirm benefits through proper testing.

I noticed a slightly lower tuning when I was using a single driver loading and had the magnet structure in the open chamber, compared to keeping the magnet in the sealed chamber. I think the main benefit to having the magnet in the open chamber would be increased cooling ability.
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« Last Edit: 05/21/07 at 18:42:35 by Dirty_Dawg »  

Anxiously watching as the whirling wind scoops up and hurls into oblivion the chalky white dust that was once the rank bones of my final oppressor, I relax finally, as I have survived again.
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JRock
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Re: Doubling..Wait No Tripling the Number of WOs I
Reply #16 - 05/22/07 at 06:46:54
 
Steve D recommends placing the basket of the woofers you are using in the compression chamber to achieve a lower tuning.  It decreases the amount of higher frequency supposedly.  I haven't noticed much difference in actual listening though, but if it supposedly does something good for a subwoofer application- lower response- and I can't detect a difference either way, I just do as Steve says.  If I had tried it and heard a difference, I would do whatever sounded best to me- so try either way before finishing the WO.
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Dirty_Dawg
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Re: Doubling..Wait No Tripling the Number of WOs I
Reply #17 - 05/22/07 at 14:53:35
 

Wow. I noticed a lot more high, midbass frequencies with the "front" of the driver facing the port (I was not using the Decware drivers - they were JBL).  I wasn't concerned as much, because that's what crossovers are for. Just goes to show you that you need to try it all for yourself and choose the results you like best for your application.

Wink
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Anxiously watching as the whirling wind scoops up and hurls into oblivion the chalky white dust that was once the rank bones of my final oppressor, I relax finally, as I have survived again.
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60_and_up
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Re: Doubling..Wait No Tripling the Number of WOs I
Reply #18 - 05/23/07 at 20:20:48
 
Dirty_Dawg wrote on 05/22/07 at 14:53:35:
Wow. I noticed a lot more high, midbass frequencies with the "front" of the driver facing the port
Wink



makes zero sense dirt?

care to elabortate, same sub same x over point just reversed the driver and different cut off freq?

doubt it  :-/

obviously without the magnet inside it the sealed part of the wo is bigger (no sub displacement) and that would account for slightly

lower bass, which might be mis interepreted as 'more midbass' when driver is reversed?

but you are geting very old, and we could forgive this amateur mistake  ;)
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aznboi3644
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Re: Doubling..Wait No Tripling the Number of WOs I
Reply #19 - 05/23/07 at 20:37:56
 
yeah but sub displacement is not enough to make a noticeable difference unless the sub has a HUGE magnet and basket
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Dirty_Dawg
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Re: Doubling..Wait No Tripling the Number of WOs I
Reply #20 - 05/24/07 at 14:32:19
 
aznboi3644 wrote on 05/23/07 at 20:37:56:
yeah but sub displacement is not enough to make a noticeable difference unless the sub has a HUGE magnet and basket


Don't make me do math, today, please. When you have a huge enclossure, I agree, the speaker displacement is insignificant in the real world. When you have a sealed chamber that is only a couple of cubic feet, the difference between subtracting the driver displacement and adding the driver displacement becomes more noticeable. It seems to me that when I increased the sealed chamber by two basket volumes (the difference between the driver mounted one way compared to mounting it the other way) it made a significant difference in the lower range of response.

Whether the octave above 100Hertz is easier to hear, with the air pressure slinking around the magnet or not, becomes less significant than the actual volumes involved. I'm talking about a listening test for seat-of-the-pants feel plus some perfunctory measurements using a cheap Radio Shack decibel meter. I don't know which box tuning program someone could use to model the Wicked One, though.

Also, don't forget the diameter of the cut-out times the 1.5 inches you gain by mounting the driver completely inside the vented chamber. It makes a difference, because the volumes we are dealing with are small, or at least similar to the driver Vas. Taking your statement to the logical conclusion would lead us to thinking that the volumes are insignificant, in total. We would not need to measure anything.
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« Last Edit: 05/24/07 at 14:44:57 by Dirty_Dawg »  

Anxiously watching as the whirling wind scoops up and hurls into oblivion the chalky white dust that was once the rank bones of my final oppressor, I relax finally, as I have survived again.
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Dirty_Dawg
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Only the music is
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Posts: 120
Re: Doubling..Wait No Tripling the Number of WOs I
Reply #21 - 05/24/07 at 14:41:16
 
60_and_up wrote on 05/23/07 at 20:20:48:
makes zero sense dirt?

care to elabortate, same sub same x over point just reversed the driver and different cut off freq?

doubt it  :-/

obviously without the magnet inside it the sealed part of the wo is bigger (no sub displacement) and that would account for slightly

lower bass, which might be mis interepreted as 'more midbass' when driver is reversed?

but you are geting very old, and we could forgive this amateur mistake  ;)


If I build it I will come ... or something like that?

Thanks for reminding me to wipe my chin when I drool, but I'm not sure what is unclear (Alzheimer's, too?). One thing Steve has always tried to make us mindful of is that "Everything" makes a difference. Some differences are worth pursuing and some are not. Switching a driver around is easy and worth trying.



MODDED:
Oh, I think I get what you are saying.
How about, instead of a different "cut off freq" (I'm not sure how that applies to the WO, anyway) a noticeable difference in behavior near the cut off freq?
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« Last Edit: 05/24/07 at 18:51:06 by Dirty_Dawg »  

Anxiously watching as the whirling wind scoops up and hurls into oblivion the chalky white dust that was once the rank bones of my final oppressor, I relax finally, as I have survived again.
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Adrian
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Re: Doubling..Wait No Tripling the Number of WOs I
Reply #22 - 05/24/07 at 15:14:40
 
a rather normal 10 can have a displacement of about 0.1 cf. which isn't neglijable in such small enclosures.
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Too much bass never hurts, or does it ?
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JRock
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Re: Doubling..Wait No Tripling the Number of WOs I
Reply #23 - 05/25/07 at 06:41:16
 
Well Dirt- I noticed a change, but wether it was a percieved change, or an actual change was to be determined.  I wasn't sure if I was hearing more highs with the magnet in the sealed chamber, or my mind thought I was because I was told thats what happens.

As far as the impact- not only are you changing the size of the sealed chamber you change the size of the compression chamber.  Say your 10 only has .1 cu ft displacement- and say with the magnet in the sealed chamber the volume of the sealed chamber is 1 cu ft, while the compression chamber is also 1 cu ft.  If we move the magnet to reside in the compression chamber, we end up with a sealed chamber of 1.1 cu ft, and a compression chamber of .9 cu ft.  Now the ratio between the two are different, and each chamber is a different volume.  So in this case, even .1 cu ft driver displacement has the potential to change alot in the WO design.

As far as testing goes-  I absolutely love the Dayton WO.  It blows my mind.  The Infinity WO seems to dig a little deeper, and the Daytons are much more efficient (especially in the upper limits of their acoustical range.)

The dayton abolutely needs an XO- and a steep one at that for me.  I really dig a slightly odd shaped curve for now- the results of mismatched XO frequencies on the AMP and HU.  I have the HU at 125hz and the amp at 80 hz.  Results in a 12db rolloff from 80 hz up to 125 hz, where the slopes combine for steeper rolloff of 24db.  The Daytons end up being highly authoritive in the lowest frequencies, yet punchy and hard hitting in the upper range where the kick drum is.  Listening to heavey metal gives you an idea of what sub speed is all about- you are actually able to hear individual slams of kick drums when drummers are going to town rather then the boring drone poor ported designs offer.

I could really type for awhile about how they make all my music sound better- and its amazing how many rattles went away when I changed from the Infinitys in a sealed (albiet poorly sealed) enclosure to the Daytons in the WO.  Its a night and day difference with the WO doing everything the Sealed enclosure dreamed about when it sleeps at night.
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