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A modification worthy of the Zen (Read 28010 times)
davedutill
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A modification worthy of the Zen
02/17/07 at 04:54:54
 
Hi all

Just thought I'd share what will most likely be the last mod of many to my Lil Zen amp.

I have done more than a few mods to this jewel,  this latest mod indeed makes the biggest improvement.  I am certain many have read about the V Caps.  Well, I have had them playing in the amp for a couple of weeks now.  Words are hard to come by when trying to describe the listening experience.  

The caps bring out the last little bit of information that the Zens are so well known for.  The caps also,  for lack of a better term, get out of the way.  The previous bypass caps were Relcaps.  Very highly regarded at the time.  After direct comparison to the new Vcaps, well, there is in fact no comparison.  The V Caps just do everything "right",  warmth, weight, speed, liquid.....whereas the Rels could have a tendency to get a bit on the shrill side with some material.  

The Caps are on the pricey side, but then again the gains in listening pleasure are worth much more than what the caps cost.  

These take the Already incredible amps to an even more incredible level of realism.

Definately worth getting out the soldering iron for!!

Dave
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Brett
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #1 - 02/17/07 at 09:36:35
 
I've also upgraded to the v-caps and totally agree. These caps are amazing and completely worth the price.

Here's a good review of all the major caps including the super pricey AN Silver cap. (Spoiler.. the V-Caps win)

http://www.vhaudio.com/21capacitorshootout.pdf

Dave, I've been listening through your parkers for four years now and want to take this time to thank you for building them. I had no problem hearing the difference between coupling caps among many more subtle tweaks. They're terrific speakers.

-Brett

PS. What would happen if I replaced the Hovland with V-Caps for the tweeter high pass.
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« Last Edit: 02/17/07 at 09:43:36 by Brett »  
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #2 - 02/17/07 at 17:59:22
 
Brett wrote on 02/17/07 at 09:36:35:
PS. What would happen if I replaced the Hovland with V-Caps for the tweeter high pass.


You may wish to price a 2mf v-cap before getting excited about changing out the Hovlands in your Parkers.

I think you'll be out around $600 bucks for the pleasure of a pair of those babies Smiley

Karl
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Brett
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #3 - 02/17/07 at 19:43:25
 
I've got the 95MK2, which have a much smaller value. Still the price is crazy. I haven't read much about using v-caps in the crossover, other than that the manufacturer claims they work well.
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« Last Edit: 02/17/07 at 19:45:13 by Brett »  
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #4 - 02/19/07 at 04:12:36
 
Dave,

Can you be more specific about the caps?  Are we talking about coupling caps or the cathode resistor bypass cap?  

Got a picture?

Steve
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davedutill
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #5 - 02/19/07 at 05:35:10
 
Hi all

Yep, i am sure you could use some of the Vcaps in the speakers.  The price would most definately put a massive hurt on ya.
(95's need 4uf)

Steve,

The V caps under discussion were put to use in the coupling cap circuit.  

To burn them in I have been racking up mass hours through a Denon POJ (piece of junk) 5 disc dvd changer on repeat, coming Digital out into my DAC.  Running some junk russian tubes labeled RCA.  I sat down after about 350 hours or so, with this setup....and was amazed!!!!  I am really looking forward to getting the main transport and fav tube compliment back in "THE" machine.  This may very well be a depends moment in the making!!!  Gonna give it a lil more time so as the caps can get their mojo going.

Steve, I have said it before and am once again in the same boat, I cant say enough good things about the amazing Zen.

An awesome amp!!!
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #6 - 02/20/07 at 15:28:26
 
Dave,

I like your tag line!   Smiley
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Randy in Caintuck
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #7 - 02/23/07 at 18:14:57
 
I have been using the Mundorf Silver PIO coupling caps in my Select for quite a while now ..... they sound very good.

UPS delivered a pair of .1 uf V-Caps to my home yesterday and I popped them into the Select last night.  Despite the inevitable trace of "break in harshness", I was not able to leave my listening seat until 2:30 AM and was late for work this morning .....  :-?

The Mundorfs are well broken in (several hundred hours) ..... but, IMHO, there is NO comparison between these caps as to detail, focus and air.  Vocals and instruments with the V-Caps are absolutely locked in space ..... the lead vocals noticeably so.  While the Mundorfs are excellent sounding caps, I am forced to use the well worn phrase that it was like pulling a blanket off of my speakers when the V-Caps were installed.

It is quite possible that a harsh sounding front end would be a bit painful through these caps (especially during break-in) but I am hearing none of it.  If the word on the street about the 400 hour break-in is true, I can only imagine how good these puppies will sound at that time.  The detail is scary good with none of the downsides that normally come with extremely revealing components.

In addition to the fine qualities described above, the bass is easily the most articulate I have heard in my system.  No "wooliness" here.  Dave Dutill tells me that the bass gets even better and more powerful with break-in.

Chris VenHaus at VH Audio is a pleasure to deal with and I received a UPS tracking number the same day I placed the order .....  8-)

I have spent $100.00 on a lot of audio related items that can't sniff at the goodness that the V-Caps add to my system.  

Highly recommended ....

Randy
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« Last Edit: 02/23/07 at 22:00:20 by Randy in Caintuck »  

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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #8 - 02/23/07 at 19:57:32
 
Randy -
Sent a message to Dave about specifics and maybe making a "semi" group buy. Haven't heard from him. Guess I should have sent it to you.
Always looking to save a buck  [smiley=grngreedy.gif]
Joel
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #9 - 02/24/07 at 02:52:55
 
I enjoyed reading the asian magazines capacitor shootout, thanks.
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #10 - 02/24/07 at 03:17:59
 
Corey wrote on 02/24/07 at 02:52:55:
I enjoyed reading the asian magazines capacitor shootout, thanks.


???????????????????????
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Brett
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #11 - 02/24/07 at 03:24:05
 
Randy,

It was Eddie that first turned me on to these caps, and the way he described them I thought it would be unlistenable at first. Of course this is not the case, and amazingly they do get better and smoother without any loss of the goods. I'm pleased to hear that you prefer the v-caps over the mundorfs as I haven't had a chance to compare them myself. Detail and neutrality is definitely my bag, and these caps fit the bill nicely.
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« Last Edit: 02/24/07 at 07:12:01 by Brett »  
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #12 - 02/24/07 at 03:25:33
 
MikeW wrote on 02/24/07 at 03:17:59:
???????????????????????


Corey is referring to the link I posted above. It's a cap review from a Chinese rag.
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« Last Edit: 02/24/07 at 03:26:34 by Brett »  
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Randy in Caintuck
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #13 - 02/24/07 at 06:02:37
 
Brett wrote on 02/24/07 at 03:24:05:
Randy,

It was Eddie that first turned me on to these caps, and the way he described them I thought it would unlistenable at first. Of course this is not the case, and amazingly they do get better and smoother without any loss of the goods. I'm pleased to hear that you prefer the v-caps over the mundorfs as I haven't had a chance to compare them myself. Detail and neutrality is definitely my bag, and these caps fit the bill nicely.


Howdy Brett,

I have had many discussions with Eddie about the Mundorfs and V-Caps.  Eddie would probably be the first to admit that personal preference is everything in audio.  He makes no secret about liking his sound "with some meat on the bones", having a special place in his heart for DH-SET amplifiers such as 2A3s and 300Bs.  So, it's not too surprising that Eddie cautions folks about anything that has a potential for a thin or bright sound.  He knows that most of the front ends in use are digital ..... and of less than world class quality ..... so the Mundorfs are probably a safer recommendation for the majority.  I would guess that if there was anything nasty upstream, the V-Caps would make it painfully obvious.  From our conversations, Eddie has no problem recommending the V-Caps to someone who has an analog or "civilized" digital front end.

I just finished another 3 hour listening session and am even more amazed than I was last night.  Nothing can hide from these capacitors.  Dave isn't just woofin' about how good they are.  They give you everything that is on the CD or LP and yet do it with liquidity and refinement ..... there is so much "going on" in the music that it makes listening an adventure .....  8-)

Honestly ..... the "400 hour break-in thing" has me drooling with anticipation .....  :)

Best wishes,

Randy
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« Last Edit: 02/24/07 at 06:14:25 by Randy in Caintuck »  

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MikeW
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #14 - 02/24/07 at 09:46:53
 
Brett wrote on 02/24/07 at 03:25:33:
Corey is referring to the link I posted above. It's a cap review from a Chinese rag.

Thanks Smiley
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davedutill
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #15 - 02/24/07 at 18:28:20
 
Randy!!  

Step away from the amplifier!!!  Its Saturday afternoon...you have been listening for two days straight.  The Mighty Zen/Vcap combo has pulled you into its vortex.

Well, on second thought, I suppose you could be doing worse things.  The I T community can live without ya for a few days, just remember to shave that Rumplstiltskin beard off when ya finally go back to work.

Yep, the Vcaps are truly something one has to hear to believe.  The difference, as has been stated previously in the thread are all positive from top to bottom.  A cap worthy of being inside the Zen chassis!

Joel, I do believe I replied to the mail...was just too busy listening to respond immediately.   Smiley

As for me...Back to the system

Dave



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lightmaster
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #16 - 02/27/07 at 19:30:25
 
allright guys upgraditis is back
i have mundorf silver gold and love them, but you know things have to be changed every now and then
anyone interested in a group buy, price drops significantly if we reach a certain number Smiley


f
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #17 - 02/27/07 at 20:06:47
 
.1 uf V-Caps
Randy & Dave.....this is the Cap correct?   I suppose I need a qualified Soder Slinger to get them in?

Stone of Tone
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #18 - 02/27/07 at 21:04:13
 
lightmaster wrote on 02/27/07 at 19:30:25:
allright guys upgraditis is back
i have mundorf silver gold and love them, but you know things have to be changed every now and then
anyone interested in a group buy, price drops significantly if we reach a certain number Smiley


f


Sure, I need 4 for my 2 selects Smiley
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #19 - 02/27/07 at 22:26:23
 
I'm in, and I dont even have any selects yet, but I'm working on it.  :) I'll take 4

Mr C  :)
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lightmaster
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #20 - 02/27/07 at 22:32:24
 
gooooood
if tone is in we are at 12 pieces!
if we get 12 more they will cost 35 dollars each, quite reasonable in my book.

so c'mon don't be shy my friends Smiley i know you want it Smiley

and yes the value is 0.1uf

f
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lightmaster
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #21 - 02/27/07 at 22:36:13
 
i suspect that eddie uses thjose in his carina for the voicing 2???
that's what he says about the voicing, sure is not the same amp, BUT you know Smiley certainly the same sound school Smiley

quote:
"Voicing 2 achieves maximum resolution and slam with less tube warmth and coloration, for those who love absolute microdetail and transparency. Regardless of it's near unbelievable resolution, it is still creamy and fluid, with zero harshness or glare in the high or mid frequencies.

...

This voicing is mercilessly revealing of your source component, preamp, interconnects, and recording. It will completely unmask and reveal everything upstream from it, good or bad, warts and all. Although the Carina in this form is most definitely still very smooth and flowing, it will not make a poor digital source or bad digital recording sound better the way a warmer sounding, lower resolution amplifier will. On the other hand, good recordings played on a good source are simply magical sounding. If you have a hi-end digital source or a good turntable and phono stage, Voicing 2 will allow them to shine through in all their glory."

never talked with eddie about this but i am almost certain that those must be the caps that he uses for that voicing.


f

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« Last Edit: 02/27/07 at 22:42:44 by lightmaster »  

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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #22 - 02/27/07 at 23:42:30
 
I'm in for 4. Who knows, images of my 34I are dancing through my head also.
Joel
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lightmaster
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #23 - 02/28/07 at 00:32:11
 
ok i did a quick calculation, if we get to 26 caps we will spend around 73 dollars (for 2 caps) including the shipping to one "host" against the 106 called for two caps bought individually.

now!
the problem is who is going to be the "host"? i would be happy to do it but i live in denmark that might create a problem to send the caps back and forth accross the atlantic. shipment to denmark is marginally higher from the company to here, but shippment - redistribution might be a problem because post here is really expensive.

anyone there in the US willing to be the initial host? if not the other option would be me being the host and to wait until the end of march when i will be in italy for a week.  shipping stuff from italy is cheaper, much cheaper then from denmark. but needless to say a US based host might be the ideal thing to do.

let's investigate options guys, any idea, i started this idea and i am willing to invest in it if necessary, not only for the caps, but also for the fun Smiley of it.


we are now at 16 caps, 10 more caps are looking for new owners Smiley

f

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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #24 - 02/28/07 at 00:57:04
 
lightmaster wrote on 02/27/07 at 19:30:25:
anyone interested in a group buy, price drops significantly if we reach a certain number Smiley


I'd be interested in 2 for my select.

--e
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #25 - 02/28/07 at 02:44:37
 
I have an idea, give me a day to research it, I'll try to post tomorrow night with viability. Must have patience...must have patience....must have patience Smiley
Joel
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #26 - 02/28/07 at 03:11:29
 
lightmaster wrote on 02/27/07 at 22:36:13:
i suspect that eddie uses thjose in his carina for the voicing 2???

never talked with eddie about this but i am almost certain that those must be the caps that he uses for that voicing.



You would be correct ..... and every word he says about these caps is exactly what I'm hearing .....  :)

Randy
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #27 - 02/28/07 at 03:51:12
 
I'd also be interested in a pair for my Select
                                                            Don
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #28 - 02/28/07 at 04:43:54
 
I'll take a pair for my Zen C. I'm assuming these will work in a C as well as a Select. If incorrect, I hope someone will let me know.

Thanks, Miles
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #29 - 02/28/07 at 05:31:33
 
I'd also be in for a pair, if the particulars can work out Smiley

and yes, the signal coupling caps are the same in the C and the Select.


Karl
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lightmaster
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #30 - 02/28/07 at 10:24:50
 
All right guys, that's where we are:

Francesco 2 caps
stone_of_tone 2 caps? Please confirm tone.
Rap 4 caps
Mr Content 4
Joel 4
Erimille 2
Doorman 2
Miles 2
Veryoldcat 2

Total so far 24! We need one more person! Only

I am going to do something I am going to contact chris at v-cap.com and see if we can get an arrangement for shipping individually. I know he charges 10 dollars for US shipping and 15 for overseas, that’s a lot! A regular jiffy bag rolled is safe enough for shipping those are not tubes, and they are extremely small and light. Posting and bag should be no more then few dollars both nationally and internationally. I suppose companies like to charge a premium for handling and shipment. If you a regular on e-bay you know that many make their money on that rather the the product (look at anything sent from china  for example) not v-cap.com case, but we can save something there i guess. let's see


Anyway lets see what Joel has in mind, any more ideas?

One thing that might be possible is to pay individually to the company and have all the caps sent to one person that then would redistribute???

I’ll see what chris  says and report back

f
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« Last Edit: 02/28/07 at 10:27:12 by lightmaster »  

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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #31 - 02/28/07 at 16:12:23
 
im down for 2 caps!
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #32 - 02/28/07 at 16:46:50
 
lightmaster wrote on 02/28/07 at 10:24:50:
I am going to do something I am going to contact chris at v-cap.com and see if we can get an arrangement for shipping individually.



I wonder if this groupbuy could include a pair of .47uF caps at a discounted price. If so I'm in for a pair of those. I've been meaning to upgrade the caps in my DAC.

-Brett
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« Last Edit: 02/28/07 at 17:04:31 by Brett »  
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #33 - 02/28/07 at 18:30:39
 
Brett wrote on 02/28/07 at 16:46:50:
I wonder if this groupbuy could include a pair of .47uF caps at a discounted price. If so I'm in for a pair of those. I've been meaning to upgrade the caps in my DAC.

-Brett

get some panasonics or EVOX Rifa polyprops I think you´ll be just as happy in the dac department at a fraction of the price. After all the location of were you spend the most $ is key to successfull frugophilia Smiley
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #34 - 02/28/07 at 18:38:20
 
Hi all,  I'd like 4 caps for my pair of selects!  Thanks,Tish        P.S.  Does anyone know what size caps my SE34I.2 would use?
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #35 - 02/28/07 at 19:36:29
 
I'm down for 2.
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lightmaster
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #36 - 02/28/07 at 21:22:38
 
Francesco 2 caps
stone_of_tone 2 caps? Please confirm tone.
Rap 4 caps
Mr Content 4
Joel 4
Erimille 2
Doorman 2
Miles 2
Veryoldcat 2
tsingle999    2 cAPS
TISH 4
rock4016   4 Caps

that makes it: 34 caps total! Wow, we might be able to get an even better price, might be.

I'll be back with more info, also regarding brett 0.47uf. By the way in what position do you want to use those?
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #37 - 03/01/07 at 00:08:50
 
I'll go in for 4 for my pair of selects...

Matt
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #38 - 03/01/07 at 00:37:35
 
Never mind my thought, checked it out and it's not such a great idea. Make sure Chris knows what we are doing, I know it is straight forward pricing on the website, but a $12 differential on this number of caps adds up. That said I'm still in for 4.
Joel
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #39 - 03/01/07 at 09:23:26
 
all right guys
talked with crhis and asked if price was lowest he could offer and if we could might be pay individually to him at the 25+ discounted price and have all the caps sent to one person.

answers: yes, price is the lowest he can offer
no, he cannot get individual payments.

little disappointed must say, nothing else was suggested if not the fact that prices are soon going up for the caps!

so ... i think we should move differently. as i said the best option would be if one seasoned decware member would take the lead in the states. we could send him the money (paypal, bank transfer i assume would be preferred methods) payment should include prices of the caps at a discounted price. + share of the postal expences + amount for re shipping the items

basically we are talking according to my calculation of around 77-78 dollars ( a little more if paying with paypal to include paypal charges, i am going to be more specific a little later today with calculations) for a couple of caps.

i am willing to do it, but as i said i am in denmark and things get a little more complicated if we have to get the caps here and then send them back to the states, i also condidered the problem that for such an amount custum taxes might be an issue.

so is there any body in the US willing to be the "home base" of the deal?

if not i will think of another solution and report back.

f
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #40 - 03/01/07 at 16:16:34
 
Greetings all,

Just a thought.  I enjoy saving a few bucks as much as the next guy, but I ran the math on this and I'm not sure this group buy thing is all that cost effective .....  :-?

Two .1uf caps cost 96.00 + shipping
Two .1uf caps at the +25 price cost 72.00 + shipping

So ..... you are saving 24.00 ..... less the extra shipping costs to reship from the "contact buyer".

I know that the thought of paying 50.00 for a capacitor rubs many folks the wrong way ..... but these things really are worth the money.  After hearing them in my Select, I would have gladly paid 3 times the price to get the same results .....  :)

When you hold one in your hand and feel the "heft" compared to other caps, it gives you a pretty good idea that there is something special here.  The folks at VH Audio put a lot of effort into developing these beauties and I don't begrudge them a decent profit ..... especially considering the results .....  8-)

I would hate to see my friends here on the forum "fart around" and end up paying a higher price in the near future .....  :P

Randy
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #41 - 03/01/07 at 17:20:04
 
I don't want to mess up a group buy or anything, but I have an offer to make. Since I have a need for 4 caps I will be willing to buy 6 and send 2 to someone on this forum that I trust, in other words, been around awhile. All I will charge is the cap price plus my shipping to you. That will be a $12 difference to the partner vs. a very large group buy. First person to PM me that meets the above criteria will get the deal.
Joel
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #42 - 03/01/07 at 18:15:18
 
you might be right randy but here is the math

we are buying 38 caps at 36 each dollars instead of 48 dollars each

1824 +130(post) ---1954 dollars this is the total of all the caps at full price plus shipping


1368 +25 (post to base) = 1393 +60 (post to individuals circa)=1453 this is the total of the caps at reduced price plus shipping to base and re-shipping to individuals.


501 dollars saving total 38 dollars for each couple of caps. you might be right.

what do you guys think

the smaller group alternative is an option to simplify things, i am in for that too... if people prefers Smiley


and by the way is true, Steve did not consider that but the grading system based on number of posts was a certain guarantee as to commitment to the decware spirit Smiley trustworthiness i mean Smiley
the new 3 stars systems completely kills that comfort factor, at least with the less well know members.
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« Last Edit: 03/01/07 at 18:26:33 by lightmaster »  

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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #43 - 03/01/07 at 19:22:21
 
I think Dave and Randy should handle the group-buy and re-packing, They are after all responsible for this thread and for every-one wanting the caps  :D Tongue Smiley Smiley Smiley
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« Last Edit: 03/01/07 at 19:23:20 by Rap »  
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #44 - 03/01/07 at 19:51:43
 
Rap wrote on 03/01/07 at 19:22:21:
I think Dave and Randy should handle the group-buy and re-packing, They are after all responsible for this thread and for every-one wanting the caps  :D Tongue Smiley Smiley Smiley


Howdy Rap,

Dave and I would like to thank you for the excellent suggestion ..... but think we will pass at this time .....

Randy
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #45 - 03/03/07 at 19:49:33
 
i would be willing to accept shipment of the caps, repack and ship them to people,  if someone else handled the administrative and financial details (the address and money collection end of things). i have a bunch of padded envelopes left over from selling cd's that i think would fit the caps. shipping charges would have to include insurance charges too. i am in the us and visiti canada once in awhile...
on another note what about a group cryo of the caps? before shipping?
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #46 - 03/03/07 at 20:43:21
 
tsingle999 wrote on 03/03/07 at 19:49:33:
i would be willing to accept shipment of the caps, repack and ship them to people,  if someone else handled the administrative and financial details (the address and money collection end of things). i have a bunch of padded envelopes left over from selling cd's that i think would fit the caps. shipping charges would have to include insurance charges too. i am in the us and visiti canada once in awhile...
on another note what about a group cryo of the caps? before shipping?


I'm afraid cryoing caps is not a good idea, they tend to explode Roll Eyes
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #47 - 03/03/07 at 22:32:20
 
hehe well lets skip the cryoed caps then!
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #48 - 03/04/07 at 22:14:21
 
I took Joel up on his offer and we created our own 'mini' group buy. Matt
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #49 - 03/05/07 at 00:15:42
 
good for you man, i was interested in the "mini-group" too, or whatever option, if not much moves soon enough i'll just follow suite  :-)

anybody there Smiley

f
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #50 - 03/10/07 at 18:30:02
 
Been busy (overly) and haven't kept up here.

Do we still have a living concern, or is it every s/he for her/himself?

Karl
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #51 - 03/10/07 at 21:49:10
 
dunno
no response so far  :(
sure i am gettin' two anyway,

hei by the way while reading about the caps i found some info about the leads being fragile close to the contact with the cap, so take care when installing them to use  something to avoid pressure there.

f

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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #52 - 03/15/07 at 02:31:52
 
Hey If I haven't missed the boat already I would like a pair,please and thanks Dan
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #53 - 03/15/07 at 06:43:08
 
Hi Dan,

Well, you'd like 2 x .1mf;  I'd like 2x .1mf, so all we need is one more person to make a mini group and save 40 bucks per pair of caps, not including shipping, which should be very little...

Karl
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #54 - 03/15/07 at 21:52:45
 
these are back in production!: they look interesting

http://www.blackdahlia.com/tipindex/Tip_26/tip_26.html

you'll get them here:
http://www.vacuumtube.com/VTV%20Ultratonecaps.htm

anybody tried them?


f
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« Last Edit: 03/16/07 at 19:51:08 by lightmaster »  

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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #55 - 03/22/07 at 00:53:47
 
For my own foul selfish purposes, I will note that Terry has started a group buy thread for .1uf V-caps, in the tube lover's forum.

Besides being impressed by Dave Dutill's comments; IIRC, these are the interstage caps that Eddie Vaughn raves about in his Carina as a step above the Mundorf oil-filled caps, where the greatest transparence is desired.

In the past I've compared teflon to polystyrene and polypropylene film caps in the signal path (in a line level filter) and there was absolutely NO comparison to the teflon.

I'm sorta anxious to do this thing, as I believe Terry is also, so we will eventually just go ahead even if it's only this mini-group of 4 caps.


Karl

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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #56 - 03/22/07 at 23:34:01
 
well guys
i waited and waited and then acted and bought 4 caps, two v-caps and 2 audio note silver foil (if you think v-caps are expensive have a look at the AN silver!!! crazy

bottom line they are both well worth the price (if your system is ready for them!).

love the v-caps in the amp (really special caps these v-cap, everything said about them is true!)
but the AN silver are the ticket in the dac, IMHO have an advantage on the v-cap in that position, tried both, AN silver have just magic HF exstension and musicality

ohh well took them out and they are now "cooking" in my radio for the required 300-400 hours before being definitely installed, i'll try both of them in the two positions to see if my preferences have changed at that stage.

f
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« Last Edit: 03/22/07 at 23:44:20 by lightmaster »  

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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #57 - 04/07/07 at 07:33:51
 
Does anyone know if this will work in the Taboo and if so what are the values needed. Also any pix of the mod would be very helpful for those of us not perfectly versed in the art of modding.

Thanx!
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #58 - 04/07/07 at 09:11:18
 
mmm,

(Just to keep the idea floating, and not having looked under the Taboo hood), I'll offer an opinion that you could take the bottom off the Taboo chassis, and notice two film caps symmetrically placed between the driver tube and output tubes of similar value. It probably also is close to a .1uf signal cap like the se84cs, by statistics.

Again, I'm not a Taboo expert, so you gotta take a look in there to be sure.

Karl
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #59 - 04/07/07 at 16:53:57
 
The Taboo schematic shows .15/600V coupling caps.  Don't poke around in there without grounding the PS caps first!

Dave
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #60 - 04/07/07 at 17:01:24
 
lightmaster wrote on 03/15/07 at 21:52:45:
these are back in production!: they look interesting

http://www.blackdahlia.com/tipindex/Tip_26/tip_26.html

you'll get them here:
http://www.vacuumtube.com/VTV%20Ultratonecaps.htm

anybody tried them?


f


Interesting that in the first link (article from 2001) they are priced at $20 for .1uf, and at the second link they are now priced at $65 for .1uf.  I wish my pay would have more than tripled in six years!

Dave
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #61 - 04/09/07 at 01:38:12
 
Upgrading the 0.1uf coupling cap in my SE84CS sounds like worthwhile investment. A couple of questions though:
1. Do the Vcaps even fit inside the amp, or is it a major re-orginization to get them in?
2. Is there a way to ''break them in'' before installing them, or should you just install them and slog thru the break in time? If they used so that they have 400 or so hours on them, do you discharge them before installation (I would think so) Yes, maybe dumb questions but this forum has always been a wealth of info and considerate to those less knowledgeable. Thanks, Chris.
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #62 - 04/10/07 at 00:56:23
 
I've heard of no issues with the vcaps fitting in (Dave Dutill started the thread, and quite a few others have installed them).

I have a nice shiny new pair of these sitting on the kitchen table and haven't gotten around to installing them, but I have as yet heard of no space or installation issues, except to be careful of bending the lead right at the entrance to the end of the cap, for fear of overstressing the lead to foil connection on the inside (the lead is pretty stiff)

I'm going *cold turkey* and just put em in there, and let em break themselves in au naturelle, as to having heard they aren't so bad fresh out of the box. I'm actually kinda curious to hear if there really IS such a huge break in issue.

Karl
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« Last Edit: 04/14/07 at 07:49:36 by veryoldcat »  

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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #63 - 08/27/07 at 10:30:59
 
hi dave
i am intrigued by this mod. i am using 0.1 uf hovland musicaps at the moment (which were recommended by joemac way back). easy enough to swap these in. any one using hovlands switched to v-caps? any difference?
my se84 starte life as a B went to C and is now a CS -- if you guys are convinced about this mod, guess it'll become a CS (v). i have recently acquired a HDT and now have a full decware set-up, i.e as soon as i get my CSP repaired. dunno what happened but when i turned it on, saw blue flame in bottom of the rectifier tube and quickly switched it off. replaced tube but no life after that!!! wonder if anyone else has experienced that on this forum and point out what likely happened?
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #64 - 08/31/07 at 02:33:35
 
A silly question - did you check the fuse?

That happened to me when a rectifier went.
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #65 - 10/10/07 at 06:05:46
 
Chris just shipped my Vcaps and I should have them by next week. I am pretty excited based on the stuff, I  read it  does. Cool


shreekant Smiley
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #66 - 10/11/07 at 23:31:23
 
Hi Shreekant

Be prepared for good things to happen right from the start.  Good thing is, they get better and better with time.

A mod truly worthy of these fine lil amps!!
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #67 - 10/13/07 at 23:16:39
 
I did the V-Cap mod about 5 weeks ago. It took about 30 minutes. Now, after about 300+ hours - the sound is phenominal! It was great just turning the amp on. A little edgy for a while but settled in nicely.
Smooth, very detailed and revealing. You really need to have your system together upstream. (source)

Do it - no regrets.
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #68 - 10/20/07 at 14:20:57
 
Got it fixed about 25 hours ago, and this stuff is impressive. Someone mentioned it is the best 100 $ tweek and I don't think anybody can dispute that. With the promise it shows after 25 hours , I can't wait for the 200 Grin For those who are still thinking about it, I feel you should just go ahead. Wink

Thanks Karl for all your help.


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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #69 - 10/26/07 at 08:26:47
 
Two things happening at the same time for me. One is the Vcap break in and the other is the OPA 627 mod. This morning it is really sounding very good, and I am happy that I went in for these mods. I had sent Chris a mail on the burn in issue and he mentioned that he has modified the manufacturing process, so that the new Vcaps actually only need 20 to 60 hrs for the initial break in and then get better up 400 to 500 hrs. So the new buyers will have a better deal Wink

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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #70 - 02/20/08 at 08:56:16
 
I have had the VCaps for a while now but I don't usually sit down to listen to music on a regular basis.  Therefore I have no idea how many hours they have one them.

Was listening last night and I have to say, the system sounds good.  The VCaps are obviously wearing in and are becoming quite smooth.

Simon
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #71 - 03/20/08 at 10:47:19
 
I've just installed a new set of V-caps and so far I am not impressed (for the price  :o). I had Hovland Musicaps before.

You have to remember that the V-caps are not broken in at all, since I've been playing music on it for only about 30 minutes. So take this as beginning of my review. I will report back once I have some time on them.

I could tell it does have slightly more details and slightly better high extension. And it defintely sounds cleaner (less smear) than before. However, right now it sounds relatively harsh, has no bass, and the mid is not warm at all. I hope all of this changes after the break-in.

For the incremental changes that I've seen, I can't say this was the best $100 that I've spent on zen so far. I've done some other mods on the Zen which made more difference for less money (i.e. switching out the two 20 uf with a single 15uf ASC motor run oil cap, chaning grid stoppers to Shinkoh tantalium resistors, changing the bias point of the input tubes and etc).

Hopefully these do get noticeably better after about 100 hours.


[Edit] OK, so I let it play all night while I was a sleep and went back to listen to it this morning. The bass has started to show up now. Not as strong as before yet, but I think it is a bit tighter. The mid range is still a bit mess and harsh. That will probably take a while to break in.
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« Last Edit: 03/20/08 at 21:43:04 by johnny_boy »  
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #72 - 03/21/08 at 17:30:27
 
Hmmm... you've made me doubt now. Was going to go for the V-cap but maybe my system can't take the extra clarity? FWIW, a dealer hear swears by Hovlands and even though some people think they can sound muddy, the are actually warmer and more musical. Would be interested in your thoughts...

Which ones the grid stoppers?

JJ
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #73 - 03/21/08 at 19:45:04
 
I would hold off the final judgement until I give 200 hours on it. I have heard that Teflons do take LONG time to brek in. (It is going to take me too long to do 200 hours.  :o Under my normal listening habit, that would be like 4-5 months)

A lot of people on this thread said that they heard the impovement immediately and it got better as it broke in. For me, it did not seem to be better immediately. It did bring more clarity right away, but it is less musical so far, and the mid range is very harsh and hard to listen to as it shouts too much at a decent volume. But within about 48 hours now, I think I am getting full specutrum now. The bass seems to be totally there. As strong as before and I think it might be a bit tighter.The high extension seems to be there, although I think it recessed a bit since the initial listen.

My Hovland caps probably had about 1000 hours on it (over I think like 2 years), and as you mentioned they seems a bit muddier than v-cap (of course I didn't know that it was muddlier until I put in the v-caps) but it had pretty smooth musical sound. However, I belive the Hovlands sounded pretty harsh at first as well. They all seem to have nasty mid range at first (except for PIO type capacitors which seem to have pretty smooth sounds from the begining, but no high extension at first)

How do you guys stand to listen to this thing until it breaks in? Would putting 5W 10 ohm resistors on the speaker connectors (and disconnect the speakers) do the same thing? I want to acclerate the break-in period by running it 24x7.

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johnny_boy
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #74 - 03/24/08 at 09:42:55
 
OK, I think I have about 50 hours on the V-CAP now. I think it has broken in nicely so far. I am getting full spectrum from high to low frequency and overall shouting/harshness seems to be gone quite a bit.

However, it is a mixed bag expereince of sort for me so far.

Pros - very clear and clean sounding lik someone removed some layers of haze off the glass window. resolution is better with slightly more details coming out, and separation between the instrusments are easier to hear. Overall it really cleans up things which allows more details to come out.

Cons - the creamy mid range is not there, it is "too hi-fi" sounding for me, making my tube amp sounds more like a solid state. Tube "euphonic sound" is replaced with more "neutral sounds".

I think this is the cap to get if you want real clean sounding cap that extracts as much details out as possible. But I am not sure if this my cup of tea. I think I prefer Jensen and other PIO cap sounds that has smooth wonderful mids?

(Test Track - The Very Best of Diana Krall CD - Track 14 - Little Girl Blue - The cello on this track used to sound very real prior to the V-cap, but now it sounds cleaner, but it does not feel like the real instrument is being played in the room. Feels more like a really nice recording is being played very cleanly)

I will report back once there is discernable change happen moving forward. I am hoping the mid range will be warmer and nicer as it breaks in further.
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jonjin
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #75 - 03/24/08 at 15:16:52
 
Interesting... there has also been some good reviews on Russian PIOs and US Vitamin Qs.

JJ
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johnny_boy
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #76 - 03/24/08 at 18:37:25
 
I've tried Russian PIOs and Vitamin Qs as well on other kit amps thta I've built. They are not in the same league as the V-Cap. Russian PIOs that I bought from eBay do have warm sound, however, it is no where as clean and clear sounding as the V-cap. The highs are rolled off and overall presentation is a bit smeary.

I do think V-cap is a really good capacitor, the best (and the most expensive) I've tried in terms of performance. But I am not sure if I like the sound signature of Teflon caps so far (assuming v-cap is typical of teflon caps but better than the most).

According to Eddie, these takes quite a long to get the creamy mid range sound out of them. So I will wait until 200 hour mark.

Overall, this made the Zen select a very revealing amp. You would hear all sort of issues with your CD players and sources if they are not up to par. I am not sure if my Decware Sony 685 is up to par or not. We will wait and see.
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Doorman
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #77 - 03/24/08 at 21:30:57
 
I've not heard the Decware modded player, but I doubt Steve would have produced it had it not been "up to par"!
Looking forward to your report
                                                                                     Don
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Decware SE34I w/ CCE mod, ZCD, Heybrook/Linn/Clearaudio, Hagerman,
Goertz/Wireworld/cat-5/MarkAudio Alpair 10.2 drivers
(eN) in DIY Mar-Ken cabs
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johnny_boy
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #78 - 03/29/08 at 07:28:52
 
OK, I have about 100 hours on the V-CAP now. I don't think the signature changed too much from 50 hours to 100 hours (overall balance is the same), but the sound has mellowed out defintely. I don't cringe as much as I used to.  :o

At this point I can say it is defintely better than Musicap in every respect, except for the midrange. V-CAP sounds less forward (less mid) so far. The details and clean sound of V-CAP is really nice.

I will report back around 200 hours.
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jonjin
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #79 - 03/29/08 at 11:59:16
 
Thanks for keeping us posted.

I am waiting for my Tants and ASC cap (for PSU) to arrive and will mod this first.

Still in 2 minds on whether to go Jensens or V-caps...

JJ
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johnny_boy
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #80 - 03/29/08 at 20:27:22
 
Hey JonJin,

Have you read this review? http://www.vhaudio.com/21capacitorshootout.pdf

(note that the above review is hosted on V-CAP site, so don't take everything at face value, although the review was published by a Chinese hi-fi magazine and not V-CAP). According to the review, they were worried about Jensen's rated life as it is only a few hundred hours and going down from that point.

Class F (No Class ) - xicon, Solen PPE/SM, Jupiter BeesWax
Class E - Rusian teflon caps, North Creek Music/Crescendo
Class D - Mundorf/Supreme, Supreme/Gold/Silver, AuriCap and Musicap
Class C - Mundorf Supreme Silver/Oil, Jensen PIO Copper
Class B - REL/Exotica TFT
Class A - V-CAP TFTF and Audio Note Silver

I would wait for your current modification (ASC and Tantalium) first and see how it turns out. Let me know how that changes the sound on your system.  Mundorf Supreme Silver/Oil might be the one you want to try out rather than Jensen, if you want to go with PIO route.
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Crazy Bill the Eel Killer
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #81 - 03/31/08 at 15:17:00
 
Hello JJ,

johnyboy's advice about doing the cap and grid stopper changes first is sound advice. Get a good feel for how your amp will now sound ( I've done both mods and the differences from either are not subtle ), before going further. Please understand that the ASC's also benefit from breakin, but I found them to really smooth out after approx 15-20 hours.

From your post it appears you are changing one PS cap for an ASC. If that's true, which one is it. I've done all three, but changed them one at a time, starting w/ the filter cap, then the output stage decoupling cap, and finally the input stage decoupling cap ( 15uf ASC ). The sonics improved w/ each change, but when all of the electrolytics go, the difference is dramatic.

Someday you might want to think about getting the last electrolytic out of your amp, the cathode bypass cap on the output stage. First I simply removed mine and left the 100ohm resistor unbypassed. The sound changed. I lost a little gain; not much, but I did have to crank the volume control just a bit, and the noise increased a tad also. But the sound also changed, though very slightly, and I really had to concentrate on specific things to notice a difference. It seemed just a tad cleaner, but also drier, i.e., maybe just a tad more detailed. I preferred the amp w/ the bypass cap in place. But that's me, YMMV. Try it and see what you think.

I then put in a 100uf ASC cap in an Ultrapath connection instead of the bypass cap, and this baby's staying put. Noise did increase, but I knew it would. If I wasn't going to build a new amp w/ a much cleaner PS than the Zen, I would modify the stock Zen's PS configuration to make it quieter and keep the Ultrapath connection. That connection makes a very significant change to the character of the amp.

Well, have fun and be safe in there.

Cheers,               Crazy Bill                       Smiley

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johnny_boy
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #82 - 04/01/08 at 01:07:59
 
Hi Crazy Eel, Smiley

I also fiddled with the cathode bypass cap on the output stage. Instead of taking it out right, I put a switch in it, so I can flip it back and forth to see how it differs. I’ve noticed that the non Select version also does not have this bypass cap.

When I remove the bypass cap, the sounds do get quieter, so I do have to turn it up a bit to compare it apples to apples. The sound gets a bit lighter and airier to me. It has less slam to the music, but more clear sounding. Slam changes in the similar ways the bias switch on the front of the select does. One gets more bass slam while the other less so.

However, I do like the sound with the bypass cap in the place. I wonder if I can upgrade the cap on this thing to something that is a bit better?
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johnny_boy
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #83 - 04/03/08 at 07:36:48
 
I am about 120 hours now. Big change, in a bad way  :(. It sounds a lot worse than when it had 100 hours on it. It sounds harsh, shouty and no bass. I can't listen to it right now...

Well the good news is that this means it is still breaking in.  :o  It didn't change too much from 50 to 100 hours, so I didn't expect to change alot, but it is still chaning. I will report back around 200 hours.
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jonjin
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #84 - 04/03/08 at 17:36:08
 
Sorry to hear that... hopefully it'll continue to improve.

I have now changed the 4 grid stoppers to Tantalums and the effects are not subtle. Here is what I wrote my regular UK hifi forum -

"But honestly, I put them in without expecting any or little difference, and when I turned it on for the first time, I thought... yup, more foo. But after running overnight, it's actually quite amazing. I can play my music much much louder now without any fatigability. I would say it has a more 'realistic' tone and improved my lower mid range (snare drums more realistic). The overall tone is warmer and much sweeter. Also it has improved the imaging. The music fills the room more, in particular front to back. It's like having good Mullard valves in..."

Thanks again for the tip... will now think of changing the PSU caps...

JJ
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chrisby
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #85 - 04/09/08 at 22:46:19
 
johnny_boy wrote on 04/01/08 at 01:07:59:
Hi Crazy Eel, Smiley

I also fiddled with the cathode bypass cap on the output stage. Instead of taking it out right, I put a switch in it, so I can flip it back and forth to see how it differs. I’ve noticed that the non Select version also does not have this bypass cap.

When I remove the bypass cap, the sounds do get quieter, so I do have to turn it up a bit to compare it apples to apples. The sound gets a bit lighter and airier to me. It has less slam to the music, but more clear sounding. Slam changes in the similar ways the bias switch on the front of the select does. One gets more bass slam while the other less so.

However, I do like the sound with the bypass cap in the place. I wonder if I can upgrade the cap on this thing to something that is a bit better?



the value of the cathode bypass cap pretty much restricts use to EL type caps ( 1000mF of film cap, even if you can find under 100V, would be simply huge), so the range of exotics is somewhat restricted ( i.e. Black Gates, and what else is there really? )  

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« Last Edit: 04/09/08 at 22:47:44 by chrisby »  

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jonjin
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #86 - 04/09/08 at 23:02:28
 
Elna Cerafines? True, not much out there...

Still waiting to hear the latest update from johnny_boy  ;)

JJ
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johnny_boy
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #87 - 04/18/08 at 07:19:21
 
OK. 200 hour report. I belive the "bad sound" around 120 hours was my own fault, becasue I was fiddling around with the amp and made some other changes. I reverted that change, and as soon as I did that the sound became "normal".

I think the most of the changes came in at the first 50 hours and the rest of 150 hours being smaller changes. I am hearing conflicting things from different people. Some people say it takes up to 500 hours to break these in, and some people say that V-CAP changed the manucatruing process, so now it breaks in within the first 50 hours. I don't know which is true, but since I haven't seen a huge changes since the first 50 hours, I think second opinion might be true.

Now the sound. Again the V-CAP is very detailed, clean and fast sounding and very smooth. Probably the best there is. However, I don't think this is the cap for me. I like the mids that has some "honey" and "liquid" on them. These tend to sound more neutral, or what I call "sterile" (at least on my amp). I listen to tube amps becasue of its euphonic sound, and I feel like that is not what V-CAP is trying to achieve. It is trying to go for the most tranparency and details. If that is what you like, I think this is the cap for you.

I am going to give it 100 more hours on it so see if it is going to change some more. In the mean time, I am also going to put back the Musicaps so I can directly compare what the differences were (it is hard to remember what something sounded like after 200 hours /4 weeks). I will report back on that.

I think I am going to try out Mundorf Silver in Oil, or possibly Siver & Gold in Oil, if the mids on the V-CAP does not "bloom" after another 100 hours. I will report back after that as well.

(BTW, I am not trying to disuade you from getting V-Caps, but trying to make sure that that is the right sound you want. I am realizing that even "the best" cap might not be the sound you are looking for. I've been exchanging some private emails with few folks, and it is real fun to watch some poeple go from V-CAP to Mundorf and are very happy while some people went from Mundorf to V-Cap and are much happier. Pick you sound taste, before you pick the either or other caps.)
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« Last Edit: 04/18/08 at 07:27:59 by johnny_boy »  
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johnny_boy
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #88 - 05/05/08 at 07:22:24
 
This will be probably my last report. The net is I prefer Hovland Musicap over V-CAP.

I decded to put back Musicap to see how it would compare. Immeidately I could tell there is slight loss of focus, but a lot more musicallity. My "toes started to tap" again with the music which was completely lacking with the V-cap. Then I started to doubt myself again thinking just the change is what I think is better.

So I put both V-CAP and Musicap in place with a switch in between. I auditioned both with the same set of songs switching it back and forth. V-CAP mid sound is actually SMOOTHER than Musicap. I think it has slightly tighter bass, and it has a bit clearer focus and more air between the instruments. I don't think it has any more details, although it sounds harmonically cleaner, so it appears to have show details.

However, where Musicap wins is on shear musicality and realism. The acoustic instruments and voice sounds more real to me with Musicap vs. the V-Cap. It also sounds richer and more real. The cello that I mentioned in the previous thread sounds real again with Musicap. The Fender Strat on Twin Reverb souns like Strat/Twin Reverb, rather than sounding like a good recording of it.

I think it can be summarized this way - the Musicap is more harmonically richer sounding. It sounds lushier.

If you are familiar with how American pianos tend to sound vs. European pianos, you will get the distinction between Musicap and V-Caps.  Generally speaking American pianos such as Steinway tend to sound very harmonically rich sounding. It sounds full and powerful. On the other hand European pianos, such as Bosendorfer, tend to sound more focused, delicate and ring like a bell. Sepratons between the nots are easier to hear with the European pianos. Different pianists prefer different piano. In my case, I prefer Steinway sound.

In that samw way, I prefer Musicap over V-Cap. It being harmnically richer means it would also have less focus (like the piano example above), but it is the sound that I prefer. The sound is richer and more real especially on acoustic instruments  and vocals.

I am going to leave the V-CAP in place for a while, as some songs sounds better with it (more modern rock recordings) and the mids are more creamy and smother sounding. I think I am at about 250 hours. I will give it some more time, but I am not expecting too much change at this point.
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jonjin
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #89 - 05/05/08 at 12:24:55
 
Hmmm... if only everything in audio is so easy. You've made me have doubts about whether to slot in a v-cap or Hovland now.  :)

JJ
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sherod
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #90 - 05/09/08 at 04:41:31
 
If you are using the Teflon version of the V-cap, you will need at least 400 hours of continous burn-in, if not more, before it starts to smooth out. 250 hours is just past the half way mark, so you will continue to hear some bad stuff for a while longer. I also prefer in my Audio Horizons preamp the Hovland Musicap, although I am considering trying the Mundorf Silver Oil in the near future. The Musicap does have some issues, but it does have this "breath of life" that is very pleasing to the ear.   Smiley
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jonjin
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Re: A modification worthy of the Zen
Reply #91 - 05/09/08 at 18:45:09
 
Has anyone compared the Hovland Musicaps to the Jensen PIOs?

JJ
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