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Never thought I would be asking this question (Read 3173 times)
musgofasa
Ex Member



Never thought I would be asking this question
11/11/06 at 21:12:21
 
Well, I have done a few clubs and I have done a few thousand cars and I have even done some home theaters. The only thing I have done outside was little parties.
The current thought is that my Alma Mater needs speakers for the football stadium. This is BIG in this town. Our high school football team just won a really tough playoff game and the season is coming to a close so if I can help put something together what we are hoping for is some rebuilding of the stadium to include upgrades like a new scoreboard,locker rooms, bleachers, concessions and (most important to me) a sound system.
Right now all they have are some ancient compression drivers mounted up on poles in the four corners of the field.
I am thinking that perhaps in the locations where the play clock and the scoreboard are would be an excellent spot for some Imperials. I don't have much experience with large outdoor venues so any help here is greatly appreciated.
To make it one worse we had a local engineering company donate a full blown Bose equipment system to our rivals last year so we are hoping to at least keep up with the sound they have. We might not get the jumbotron those guys got, but if we can play our fight songs and hear our commentator over the huge crowds we seem to draw it would be nice,

What do you guys think??

Robert
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musgofasa
Ex Member



Re: Never thought I would be asking this question
Reply #1 - 11/14/06 at 17:48:18
 
WOW  :o

32 views and no replies.
I guess nobody does outside venues here eh? No proffesionals? lol

I have been reading over a magnitude of professional sound white papers and text books on pro sound engineering. There was a whole lot of good info here:

http://www.jblpro.com/pages/tech_lib.htm

The more I read about this, the more I think the imperial would be a good choice for the environment I am working on here. It looks like a few standard 10 or 12 inch pro style full range cabinets arrayed from the corner poles would provide good coverage while I could use a simple pro woofer in each of 4 or 6 imps around the stadium to provide low range output. I am afraid it would sound boomy that way though considering a lot of the sound would be voice only. I was thinking maybe that the imps could be connected only to the music part of the system and the other cabs could be set up specifically for the announcers mikes. Then they could be switched in the control booth. I am still learning the best ways to do this, but it looks like the interaction of the sound with the venue is far less of  a problem in an open space like a sports stadium (especially one like this with no structures at either end.
Still looking for any suggestions here. I have almost a year to get something going and I think the boosters and the state are going to front a lot of money for the stadium so it would be great if I could offer to save a lot of that money by not needing to pay a company to come in and do a hack job like the last one. I would much rather get them at least a "good" sound as opposed to the crappy one they have now. Our rivals have only 4 towers at one end of their field that look like old home or party (DJ) speakers. They sound a lot better than ours, but the coverage is terrible and the sound all comes from one end. I know I can do far better than that. Our booth operator is an old friend of mine and he plays a lot of music at the games. I would like it to sound like music again.
Take care guys and give me some feedback!

Robert
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Valiant_ap6
Ex Member



Re: Never thought I would be asking this question
Reply #2 - 11/22/06 at 11:29:18
 
Hiya Musgofasa,
The one thing about forums is not to get to dissapointed if someone does not give you a quick fix. The fact that there is silence, can in many ways mean, do it!
I have no real experience with Imperials being used for pa. But I do know it is true, neighbours felt them, without the volume being cranked  :)
Check out JimP's articles, Imperial PA. It was reading these that convinced me to build a pair. I guess weather proofing is the only requirement in your case.
Cheers,
Gazman.
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JimP
Ex Member



Re: Never thought I would be asking this question
Reply #3 - 11/22/06 at 12:51:09
 
Gazman,

It's good to hear I helped you decide to build the Imperials.  I've never regretted it; they are awesome.  The reason I didn't respond to this thread is the system that Robert's proposed  goes way beyond what we do.  Ours is a stage and 2 main PAs.  If you've been reading JBL's stuf then you know that there is more to a large-scale system than being loud.  Time delays between speakers, frequency and dispersion issues, etc.  I think the Imperial would be great in a well designed system.  They can certainly generate some palpable bass in an open-air setting.  If you've got the inclination, I say go for it!

Jim P
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musgofasa
Ex Member



Re: Never thought I would be asking this question
Reply #4 - 11/23/06 at 00:01:40
 
Hi guys,
I actually posed this question on a pro audio forum as well and I am finding that I indeed need a lot more information than I currently have.  The time delay issue is fixed easily enough by using a single source position for the speakers or by using short runs. I also have found out a lot about coverage from asking. The thing here is going to be budget and realistic goals. We won't have more than around $10K I am sure and we will likely be limited in placement options. The reason I am considering the imperial design is we will have a secure spot at one end of the field and I think the Imps would produce enough sound without breaking the bank. I also have the ability to put them under a roof there. The stadium has never had anything close to a decent sound system so a small improvement will be pretty big.
My next step is to find out what the sound guys at the field want. They have been running the thing for 20 years like it is and I am sure they have some ideas for what they would like to see and hear.
I am still hoping to do the Imps cause I think they will be far more effiiceint overall. I will keep everybody posted as the build goeas along. I have nearly a year to get it underway so maybe by then I will have a better understanding of how this works.
Catch you guys later!
Have a happy thanksgiving!

Robert
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mrezstreet
Ex Member



Re: Never thought I would be asking this question
Reply #5 - 12/06/06 at 03:19:09
 
GO Robert  :D
i have no imput , but a good friend is buy you side even if they dont know what they are doing  :)
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VexorgTR
Ex Member



Re: Never thought I would be asking this question
Reply #6 - 12/24/06 at 19:51:28
 
Ok,  brace yourself.......  I'm going to say something that I'm pretty sure is  :o here......    Since you are doing PA,  may I suggest a DR Horn from Bill Fitzmaurice instead?........  I like Imperials....... very much,   but for the PA application they aren't practical.....    The DR horn makes more sense...  Line-array 2-3 cabs per channel.   They could be made weather resistant too.
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Braggi
Ex Member



Re: Never thought I would be asking this question
Reply #7 - 12/24/06 at 23:57:57
 
Where's DirtDawg when you need him?

He had a design for a midbass horn that sounded like a great way to get a lot of sound out of a smaller system. It used two 12" pro woofers mounted similar to the WO-32 and facing each other with a divider board between them that made the centerline of a horn made with bent plywood sides. Put two-inch drivers with some nice cast aluminum horns for high frequency (1,500 hz and up perhaps) and save the bottom couple hundred hz for some subs. You might do better with a pair of 18" drivers in a big bass reflex box for subs, or go for a pair of Imperials. Something like Labsubs would be overkill (since they're designed to be run four to a side).

The point here is to have the midbass horns, which are similar in size and shape to a WO, do the bulk of the work as far as voice is concerned. The boxes wouldn't be that expensive to build and you can power them with smallish amps since they're super efficient. You'd get deep and powerful voice with no boominess and your subs could still crank out substantial bass for music without having to handle voice.

I think serious PA is a lot to ask of a two way system although Jim might disagree.

If I were in your position, I'd come up with two or three possible options for system designs and then hire a professional sound person to come by and give some advice. Spending a couple hundred on an experienced pro could save you many thousands down the road. And who knows, maybe you'd teach your pro a thing or two. Maybe they'd even offer you a job.   Grin

One more thing, take a close look at those existing compression drivers up on the poles. Some of those old football stadium horns have major 2" Electrovoice or Altec drivers on them. Shine them up and add some new horns, crossovers and amps and they'll sound great for another 20 years. There's your tweeters.

Good luck!
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