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would stacking these have the same effect? (Read 6800 times)
jj420
Ex Member



would stacking these have the same effect?
09/10/06 at 14:30:32
 
I know that when you stack the WO family, or butt the Imperial's mouths together, you get an increased LF extension, does this hold true for the corner horns as well?

I envision a set of double height corner horns mounted equal dsitance from both the floor and ceiling, or just two per side stacked anyways...

would this give enough LF or would I still need a sub?
could I mount the drivers internally on one pair and use the front mount method on the other pair to get the best of both owrlds or would there be cancellation?

No, I am not building these, but it is the springtime of my creativity it seems and I cant stop theorizing and dreaming...
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gexter
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Re: would stacking these have the same effect?
Reply #1 - 09/10/06 at 19:51:15
 
The only problem with that approach JJ is you will not be able to dance on them when you have a party.

No really I think the disadvantages are greater than the advantage for people like us with normal houses, Its a rather philosophical concept.
Given the same room I would wonder if the bass extention would be deeper or just louder.
what would the practical and end purpose be? But your just wondering for the addition to that vast database of your mind are you not?
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jj420
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Re: would stacking these have the same effect?
Reply #2 - 09/11/06 at 02:06:26
 
Mainly this is for addition to the database, though I hesitate to call it "vast".  I do however dream of having a large shop area to call my own one day.  This dream, like all else in my life, must comply with my addiction to music.  In an area as large as I would like, the options are either the Imperials or the corner horns, especially if stacking them does increase the LF extension.  Honestly I lean more towards the corner horns anyways, maybe with an SO somewhere strategic, as they do integrate better with the structure (as in they stay out of the way in a corner and use the walls to yeild a much larger hornmouth.)  I also like the use of four smaller, faster cones instead of one  or two 15s, though I suppose one could also scale the corner horn up to use four 15s... ???

Dammit...  OK, so if I built the corner horns scaled up to use four 15" instead, and then installed some higher tuned horns in front of the larger cornerhorn, think J-low http://www.passdiy.com/speakers.htm only with (a) less compromised driver(s) would it melt my brain?  :-/

methinks the wanter needs a trimmin...
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musgofasa
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Re: would stacking these have the same effect?
Reply #3 - 09/20/06 at 20:50:25
 
OK JJ,
Trimming of the wanter for me usually results in begging for money to purchase wanted audio gear. That being said, my wife wants gear worse than I do to go in our new house (which we just signed the contract on and will be closing this month!).
The room I am working with is 18' x 14' with (I believe) a 9' ceiling.
The wall on one ond of the room is perfect. It has an entry way dead center in the 14' wall that leads out into a foyer and a stairway so that wave will never experience the room nodes. The other end has a fireplace and a well diffused wall. One of the long walls has an opening about 6' wide near the back of the room.
Here is what I am proposing and I think she really likes the idea. The walls in this room are currently white. Two corner horns stacked in each front corner with the 4 driver per enclosure set up (I am thinking scan speaks or Vifa currently) and using the B&G 75s in the front baffle where the single driver would normally go. (I think they are 75s lol, it's the tall ones).
If I use this for HT, it will have to go against the back wall so I will have a place to mount the TV.
Then I was thinking to use the Neo9 and two of the mids as a center and the same for the rear surrounds.
Of course I like loud. I mean really really loud sound lol. So if all that comes together I can match a seperate subwoofer or two that will play the infrasonics for HT and still have the ability to use the mains for stereo playback without the HT processor.
Anyone heard these things with the 4 drivers inside?
I like this design for so many reasons and I really think I want to go this route if I get any feedback on it.
Hate to threadjack, but the questions are the same and it has been dead a while. Any ideas? JJ what do you think buddy?
Have I been sippin a little too much lately?
Maybe I am high from the whole house buying thing.
Oh well,
Catch you guys later!

Robert
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gexter
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Re: would stacking these have the same effect?
Reply #4 - 09/21/06 at 01:26:53
 
A 2 hp hedge trimmer comes to mind with you guys.

My other pesonality says I would do it just because and I like to build stuff.
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« Last Edit: 09/21/06 at 01:49:14 by gexter »  
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musgofasa
Ex Member



Re: would stacking these have the same effect?
Reply #5 - 09/21/06 at 02:19:21
 
Gex!!   Cheesy Smiley Smiley Cheesy
I just realized how much of a trimming my wanter needs!
Those B&G RD 75s are $753 a piece!

Undecided Undecided Undecided Undecided Undecided Undecided Undecided Undecided Undecided


OK so I may reconsider that direction hmmmm. I read Steve's white paper and his posted numbers from what looks like quite a while back. Perhaps I will stick to 2 front corner horns. Now the question is which is better. 4 5" speakers or 1 6.5" speaker. He gives pros to both but never says why the single speaker is better for home use.
Inquiring minds want to know!

Robert
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bassboy
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Re: would stacking these have the same effect?
Reply #6 - 09/21/06 at 03:10:36
 
I'm not a fan of build-in mains, so I haven't looked at the cornerhorn info in a couple of years, but this is what I remember.  If I am correct, the horn path is short for the frequency response this gets.  If you look at regular horns with the same lf response, the lengths are generally much longer, even on compromised and shortened horns.  That makes it more comparable to the WO than a regular horn, and the horn could just as acurately be described as an exponential port.

If you study the WO and cornerhorn (as these are the only exponential port designs I am aware of) it seems that the magic length is somewhere between 3 - 4.5 feet length.  Shorter lengths do not support lower frequencies well and longer lengths are counterproductive as it appoximates horn behavior and may get louder but will not go lower.  Also, the spiky frequency response of a horn with a too-small mouth will begin to appear with longer lengths.

The expansion rate does not seem to be quite as important.  The WO expansion rate is not nearly as steep as the cornerhorn.  The cornerhorn CSA gets very big very fast and the mouth area is many times that of the WO, but the path length is similar.  This leads me to believe that a fast expansion and large mouth are beneficial for lf reproduction if space is not an issue (you don't have to try to stuff it in the trunk of your car).

All of that is a fancy way of saying the cornerhorn is not a traditional horn design.  Since I don't have two (or any) cornerhorns to stack, or even two WO's, or any other type of exponential port design, I have no idea what would happen when you sum mouth areas.  But I do know that the top driver would mess up the single point source benefits, unless you cut the highs on the top one.
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« Last Edit: 09/21/06 at 03:12:47 by bassboy »  
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gexter
Ex Member



Re: would stacking these have the same effect?
Reply #7 - 09/21/06 at 03:39:44
 
[quote author=bassboy  link=1157898632/0#6 date=1158804636]
But I do know that the top driver would mess up the single point source benefits, unless you cut the highs on the top one. [/quote]

depends how big the room is and most people do not a room that large. and then the type of horn is too small.

I will never have a dedicated listening room however the corner horns always come to mind when ever I start daydreaming about one. I think one of the things that interest me is the design and the build.
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bassboy
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Re: would stacking these have the same effect?
Reply #8 - 09/21/06 at 05:07:55
 
The design is incredibly innovative, using the walls to form a very large percentage of the box and drastically eliminating materials needed for construction.  It has a huge mouth for a speaker of it's size.  But I demand portability from mains so I won't ever have these.

As far as single point source goes, if you have more than one speaker (per side), you don't have a single point source.  Single point source is a major audiophile advantage of fullrange drivers and speaker systems.  Generally, you don't want a high frequency driver 6 feet off the ground.  It just messes things up.
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« Last Edit: 09/21/06 at 05:08:57 by bassboy »  
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musgofasa
Ex Member



Re: would stacking these have the same effect?
Reply #9 - 09/21/06 at 14:25:35
 
[quote author=gexter  link=1157898632/0#7 date=1158806384]
I think one of the things that interest me is the design and the build. [/quote]
Gex, In case you haven't noticed, that is all that interests me, lol.
I love complex designs and I love to experiment. One day I hope to have the funds to do so just for fun lol.
You never know what you will have until it is built and tested. You can make predictions, but from experience, nothing is in stone until it has been tried. Hey we patented a subwoofer design in 1998 that was so simple it was ridiculous. The problem was that the enclosure was theoretically too small to work. The conflict was not only did it work, it worked great! It helped save woofers from overeager kids cranking their amps and volume knobs and anybody who has sold speakers knows that something that saves woofers from morons is worth a mint! Especially if it doesn't destroy sound in the process lol.
Ahhh here I go again dreaming about what I will be doing in my new house.  ??? Roll Eyes ???
Somebody stop me!

Robert
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