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Standing in the shower thinking... (Read 8517 times)
jkalet
Ex Member



Standing in the shower thinking...
08/29/06 at 17:34:32
 
<No, not really.  That song's just running through my head, and so is this question.>

So's I'm looking at the specs for Dayton's Titanic MKIII....besides the price, why would it be an undersireable sub for a HW build?  Too much sag?  

How about using it for other decware plans?
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Adrian D.
Ex Member



Re: Standing in the shower thinking...
Reply #1 - 08/29/06 at 18:54:15
 
does it have sag ?
if you're set on the hw and the mk3 you could build it and lay it on its side.
i was dead set on the hw at first, but i ended up building the db. 2 db-12s are, imo better than a hw with 2 12s.
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jkalet
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Re: Standing in the shower thinking...
Reply #2 - 08/29/06 at 19:00:50
 
Not sure how to measure the sag, or if there's a realtionship between (magnet) mass and sag.  (Or would that be voicecoil length and sag...hmmm).  

In your opinion, 2 dbs are "better" than 1 HW, but is part of that because you have 2x the number of speakers? (assume 2 per enclosure).  How would you rate  2 dbs  vs  2  HWs?
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Adrian D.
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Re: Standing in the shower thinking...
Reply #3 - 08/29/06 at 19:08:52
 
when i read the onld db forum, i found one of steve's posts saying that 2 db-12s (1 woofer in each) would perform better than 1 hw with 2 woofers.
sag is related to moving mass (voice coil + former + cone) and suspension stiffness. post some specs, i'll see if i can help you.
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jkalet
Ex Member



Re: Standing in the shower thinking...
Reply #4 - 08/29/06 at 22:02:06
 
[quote author=Adrian D.  link=1156872872/0#3 date=1156874932]...one of steve's posts saying that 2 db-12s (1 woofer in each) would perform better than 1 hw with 2 woofers. [/quote]

Wow, that's a bold statement!  I'm very surprised.  I'd like to believe this, but can anybody else verify this claim?

From PE's website regarding Titantic MKIII 15's specs:

*Power handling: 800 watts RMS/1,100 watts max *VCdia: 2-1/2" *Le: 3.84 mH *Impedance: 4 ohms *Re: 3.68 ohms *Frequency range: 19-500 Hz *Magnet weight: 136oz. *Fs: 19.93 Hz *SPL: 91.7 dB 2.83V/1m *Vas: 7.79 cu. ft. *Qms: 5.89 *Qes: .41 *Qts: .38 *Xmax: 20.5 mm *Dimensions: Overall Diameter: 15-9/16", Cutout Diameter: 14-1/16", Mounting Depth: 8-3/8".
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60ndown
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Re: Standing in the shower thinking...
Reply #5 - 08/29/06 at 23:42:22
 
[quote author=Adrian D.  link=1156872872/0#1 date=1156874055]does it have sag ?
if you're set on the hw and the mk3 you could build it and lay it on its side.
i was dead set on the hw at first, but i ended up building the db. 2 db-12s are, imo better than a hw with 2 12s. [/quote]
ive built both in a 12 inch version, i wouldnt say either is better, dbs a little cleaner, hwk has more output.
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60ndown
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Re: Standing in the shower thinking...
Reply #6 - 08/29/06 at 23:44:34
 
but my db12 had 1 x 12 inch driver and my hwk had 2?
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jkalet
Ex Member



Re: Standing in the shower thinking...
Reply #7 - 08/30/06 at 01:38:48
 
Thanks for the reply 60ndown.  I find it hard to believe that 2 db's could "best" 1 dual HWK, but who knows?  Given room placement, drivers, etc. I guess it's possible    ???


BTW am I the only one who see's a red X on the front page under Mrs. Deckert?  It's been that way since I found this decware.com and on multiple computers with different web browsers.

oh yah...back to my original question...anybody?  Bueller?
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« Last Edit: 08/30/06 at 01:39:55 by jkalet »  
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Adrian D.
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Re: Standing in the shower thinking...
Reply #8 - 08/30/06 at 06:24:42
 
60, you're experience of both is based on a car setup.
link to one of steve's posts in the old db forum.
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Adrian D.
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Re: Standing in the shower thinking...
Reply #9 - 08/30/06 at 06:27:48
 
[quote author=jkalet  link=1156872872/0#4 date=1156885326]

Wow, that's a bold statement!  I'm very surprised.  I'd like to believe this, but can anybody else verify this claim?

From PE's website regarding Titantic MKIII 15's specs:

*Power handling: 800 watts RMS/1,100 watts max *VCdia: 2-1/2" *Le: 3.84 mH *Impedance: 4 ohms *Re: 3.68 ohms *Frequency range: 19-500 Hz *Magnet weight: 136oz. *Fs: 19.93 Hz *SPL: 91.7 dB 2.83V/1m *Vas: 7.79 cu. ft. *Qms: 5.89 *Qes: .41 *Qts: .38 *Xmax: 20.5 mm *Dimensions: Overall Diameter: 15-9/16", Cutout Diameter: 14-1/16", Mounting Depth: 8-3/8".
[/quote]
specs ain't got what i need to calculate Sad
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jkalet
Ex Member



Re: Standing in the shower thinking...
Reply #10 - 08/30/06 at 14:07:03
 
I found it.  FYI for those who don't know.

http://www.partsexpress.com/resources/downfire.html

*edit*  Sorry to keep bumping my post, but according to PE's calculations, the 15" Dayton Series II (which is so popular here) has approximately 8.6% sag, while the 15" Titanic MKIII has approximately 3.05% sag.  

PE states "As a general rule of thumb, any time the sag exceeds 5% of the driver's Xmax, it's not recommended for a down-firing subwoofer application"

It looks like the Series II isn't such a good choice in a vertical HW... ???
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« Last Edit: 08/30/06 at 14:20:34 by jkalet »  
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Wreckinthehouse
Ex Member



Re: Standing in the shower thinking...
Reply #11 - 08/30/06 at 15:14:02
 
[quote author=jkalet  link=1156872872/0#4 date=1156885326]

Wow, that's a bold statement!  I'm very surprised.  I'd like to believe this, but can anybody else verify this claim?

From PE's website regarding Titantic MKIII 15's specs:

*Power handling: 800 watts RMS/1,100 watts max *VCdia: 2-1/2" *Le: 3.84 mH *Impedance: 4 ohms *Re: 3.68 ohms *Frequency range: 19-500 Hz *Magnet weight: 136oz. *Fs: 19.93 Hz *SPL: 91.7 dB 2.83V/1m *Vas: 7.79 cu. ft. *Qms: 5.89 *Qes: .41 *Qts: .38 *Xmax: 20.5 mm *Dimensions: Overall Diameter: 15-9/16", Cutout Diameter: 14-1/16", Mounting Depth: 8-3/8".
[/quote]
You would still have double the amount of woofers compared to one even if the HW was double loaded. The 2 dbs are bigger (more Volumn) and utilize the cone area of both speakers.
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jkalet
Ex Member



Re: Standing in the shower thinking...
Reply #12 - 08/30/06 at 15:23:55
 
Wreckin', I don't understand what you wrote.  Are you backing what Adrian (and Steve has) said about 2 db's being "better" than 1 dual-loaded HW?  How is a dual-loaded, magnet-to-magnet, HW not "utilizing the cone area of both speakers"?
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Lee in Arkansas
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Re: Standing in the shower thinking...
Reply #13 - 08/30/06 at 15:28:23
 
[quote author=jkalet  link=1156872872/0#0 date=1156869272]Standing in the shower thinking... [/quote]
I do that quite often. The bathroom is one of the best places for me to think, I don't know why. When I'm really troubled by something I go to the bathroom, sit there, think about it, and the answer materializes out of nowhere it seems. Weird.....

Anyways....I remember reading somewhere that 2 single loaded db's would outperform a dual loaded hwk.
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Wreckinthehouse
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Re: Standing in the shower thinking...
Reply #14 - 08/30/06 at 16:34:35
 
[quote author=jkalet link=board=Housewrecker;num=1156872872;start=0#12 date=08/30/06 at 09:23:55]Wreckin', I don't understand what you wrote.  Are you backing what Adrian (and Steve has) said about 2 db's being "better" than 1 dual-loaded HW?  How is a dual-loaded, magnet-to-magnet, HW not "utilizing the cone area of both speakers"?[/qu                                        Think about it, the speakers are lined up back to back or front to front as the case may be. In this configuration you must wire the speakers out of phase with one another causing them to work as one. This configuration will without a boubt give you more control and tighter bass, but you will still be using the cone area of one driver 176.71 square inches. By using two single loaded cabinets you are utilizing more cone area 226.20 inches. The difference in cone area is approximately the equivalent of an 8" woofer. Pump one fist in the air you have your HW, pump 2 fists in the air you have your Db's. Get it?
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