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1st post-ready to convert but which HDT? (Read 3025 times)
banjohoss
Ex Member



1st post-ready to convert but which HDT?
07/28/06 at 19:51:44
 
i am a budget audio'fan' not really audiophile.
I say this because i love the artform of musical performance first.  I prefer my ears over graphs and technical info.  And, the only reason i would have a problem with audio equipment is if it prevented a great performance from being engaging.  Also, i do believe that an intimate experience can be gained without spending large amounts of cash, in fact, i am driven to get to this plane as affordably as possible.

Though I usually can enjoy a good performance on sub-standard gear, I had never really had that religious experience needed to go headlong into a diy project or into researching the next level.  I am a performer of live music and I just assumed that listening to recorded music would just always be a big step down.
enter single drivers:
I had started reading about various diy speaker projects on-line (xo designs and single driver) and had been most intrigued by the full-range designs because of the sheer minimalism.  So, by chance I was visiting family near Hot Springs Village AR, and called up Bob Brines on the phone, and he graciously invited me over for a listen.  This was my first time to hear fostex and lowthers,  and bang!  The Veil was lifted, I was on stage with the performers, the experience of listening was more active than passive, I knew I would at some point head in this direction.

My immediate concerns were--way too narrow sweet spot, low bass but not enough weight to it, perhaps too shy in the SPLs, ??was there enough high-end treble?  But I still wanted that sweet midrange and something similar to that 'inside your head' listening experience.

One of my main issues is that i have SS amps and don't plan on going to tubes just for speakers, but will eventually.  So, will these full range speakers sound too harsh with solid state?
I was tempted to just try some vintage dahlquist dq10s or 20s, ar-lsts, maybe mirage?  Still, i would spend a good chunk of money on used speakers that may not sound as open and transparent, and more than likely need new caps.  So, fullrange is worth a try i believe.

The other issue is that I have no desire, nor room, for
gigantic horns or speakers that have to be placed far away from the back wall.  My first thought was to build a version of the Big Fun Box bass reflex(fe206), maybe add a super tweeter, and use a subwoofer if needed.  

the more I read about fostex speakers in bass reflex designs, I was afraid that the midrange would get messed up and that I would definitely need to use a sub (which to me ruins the minimalism).   Would my unseasoned ears care?  I heard some pretty sweet fe167s in bass reflex at bob brine's?(though he did use a sub and only used the BR versions in a HT set up).

Never the less, the HDT just seems to be a good fit for my needs.  The enclosure is not huge, the spls are pretty high, i have read on this board that most people don't need a subwoofer, i assume that it can sit pretty close to the back wall, etc.  Still, will it sound good with solid sate? will it have a large sweet spot, and sound good off axis?

the obvious alternate option is to go with the HDT mkII.  The soundstage would be more wide and most likely be more friendly to SS amps.

Sorry for the length of this post, if anyone is still reading, i have a few specific questions:

if i go with the original HDT design, would the DFR-8s be my best bet or should i give the Audio Nirvanas with the copper phase plugs a try first.  The reason I ask is because i have a 200w x 2 amp and (50 x2) and the AN drivers are suppose to have higher power handling and are cheaper.
about the ANs--has anyone tried adding the Decware phase plug to the audio nirvanas?

or

Should i forget even trying the fostex or ANs with big watt SS amps and just go with the HDT MkII?
if so,
Is a driver kit available for the MkIIs and if so, how much do they run?  I would probably prefer this option at this point.

I am a woodworker hobbyist so the box is not too intimidating.

I know that i am requesting a lot of advice here and i will be greatly appreciative if anyone is able to help.  I hope to be able to return the favor at a later time, but it may have to be on a related topic or after I have completed the speakers.

thanks for your time

banjohoss










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Rap
Ex Member



Re: 1st post-ready to convert but which HDT?
Reply #1 - 07/28/06 at 21:31:56
 
Well Steve is reputed to have said that if he had put in the DFR´s into the alt tuned HDT´s there would never have been a MK II.
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banjohoss
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Re: 1st post-ready to convert but which HDT?
Reply #2 - 07/28/06 at 21:39:44
 
interesting.

Maybe the MkII was a nostalgic project?
i would still love to hear it, the 8" driver he is using in it must be quite unique.

Any thoughts on HDT w/dfr8s powered by big watt Solid State?
also, does the added foam edging help with dispersion?and bass perhaps?
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Yoda
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Re: 1st post-ready to convert but which HDT?
Reply #3 - 07/29/06 at 01:08:27
 
The Mk II may be the way to start.  It is alive and well in my house, and works well with my decware gear, the Sonic Impact t-amp and suprisingly well with a sony all in one unit that someone donated to the sidewalk.  It is what is advertised:  holographic, slightly warm, and really hard to make sound bad...  I find it to be a very flexible, satisfying and enjoyable speaker.

I began with the Mk I and the fe206e and followed all the tweaks including phase guide felt wrapping.  It sounded great with the decware gear, but was not as fulfilling with amps and recordings that are sub par.  I have not heard the DFR-8 driver with the new passives, so I cannot comment on those, but I imagine that they have a much more significant impact than the very helpful tweaks I applied, and bring the 206 driver to a new level.  One day I'll follow through with this or build the NFX specifically for the dfr8.

Whatever you do, it is a flexible system.  The platform is very accomodating.  If you DIY, you can build them to swap drivers and passives to your liking.  

Matt

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banjohoss
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Re: 1st post-ready to convert but which HDT?
Reply #4 - 07/29/06 at 02:15:46
 
yoda,

what is the cost for the mkII drivers and do i just call them and ask, i can't find the kit on the website.  I assume the tweeter is modified, otherwise it is a readily available driver at parts express and other places.  the woofer/mid i assume is a decware product for shure?  

anyone,
would the mkII work with the Aurum Cantus and if so what would the advantages be?
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Yoda
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Re: 1st post-ready to convert but which HDT?
Reply #5 - 07/29/06 at 17:40:35
 
Banjo...
pm sent re: mk II's.  If you do a little digging, the info I sent was also posted on the forum re drivers.  The cabinet is the same for all.  Dispersion plates are a little different, passives different.  Decware sells plans for the cabinet or pre-cut panels for diy.

The HiVi is very good and the impedance/ efficiency is matched with the silver flute extended range  This may ultimately be more critical, but don't know about the BC.

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gnat leader
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Re: 1st post-ready to convert but which HDT?
Reply #6 - 07/31/06 at 19:31:20
 
The internal ports are also different and *I think* the internal stuffing/foam is different.
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banjohoss
Ex Member



Re: 1st post-ready to convert but which HDT?
Reply #7 - 07/31/06 at 20:36:21
 
will the HDT MkII alterations/variations be mentioned in the HDT plans or will I need to talk to Steve/Decware about making those changes to the enclosure?

ps

I have a friend with a basic t-amp that i plan to use with the MkIIs.  If i like it,  I may sell my big solid state amp to fund the MkIIs and a Charlize kit.

gnat leader and/or others,

would you recommend the charlize kit?  do you think it would drive the mkIIs sufficiently?
have you used the charlize with a solid state preamp?
understand that tube preamps and tube amps are not a financially viable option for me currently?  This t-amp phenom  is very interesting to me, I believe that it is going to bring a lot of people into the high efficient world who would have steered clear before.  Much like tube users are sampling the t-amps, I can see t-amp users gravitating to tubes, once they are hooked.
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Yoda
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Re: 1st post-ready to convert but which HDT?
Reply #8 - 07/31/06 at 21:07:17
 
The cabinet dimensions are the same, save for the dispersion plates which rest on top anyway.  

for HDT II, make a pair of 3/4" top plates for each speaker.  The lower dispersion plate has a 3" triangular cut out in the back.  The top one does not have this.  both get the semi circle cut in front.  I think they get spaced 1" and 3/4".  refer to HDT MkII picture in the turnkey speaker part of the main website is what Steve told me to do.  

The HDT II uses the same port dimensions as the original HDT  (pre alternate tuning) .  This is what I built from the plans, and I can reach down into the cabinet to add a sleeve to lengthen the ports at a later date to accomodate the alternate tuning.

Note, the Alternate Tuning package (later modification) for the 206e based driver does alter the length of the internal ports. I don't know if the current plans were ever updated to include the alternate tuning dimensions.  I just know I can easily add lenth to mine, should I want to do this for the FE206e alternate tuning.


Matt
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gnat leader
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Re: 1st post-ready to convert but which HDT?
Reply #9 - 08/01/06 at 16:52:15
 
Quote:
I have a friend with a basic t-amp that i plan to use with the MkIIs.  If i like it,  I may sell my big solid state amp to fund the MkIIs and a Charlize kit.


I have a built Charlize with mondo power supply I'd be willing to sell. PM me if interested.  -Brad-

see posts here by bbaker6212 (me)

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78944&highligh...


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« Last Edit: 08/01/06 at 16:53:01 by Brad »  
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banjohoss
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Re: 1st post-ready to convert but which HDT?
Reply #10 - 08/01/06 at 17:14:20
 
gnat leader,

see PM.

also,
does it have the air core inductors?
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