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NEW Decware Amplifier (Read 19844 times)
brettjm
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Re: NEW Decware Amplifier
Reply #45 - 06/09/06 at 18:31:08
 
Very classic looking, nice job Steve!
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veryoldcat
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Re: NEW Decware Amplifier
Reply #46 - 06/09/06 at 19:33:41
 
[quote author=boead  link=1149544554/30#43 date=1149873671]


When seeing these tubes listed on a couple of different websites, there is an order number difference between the 6n15n-EB and the 6n15n-EV. Steve lists only the EV on his site and as replacement tubes for his components. They are not one in the same from what I gather.

[/quote]


[quote author=Obi-Vaughn Kentubi  link=1130378877/0#4 date=1130477070]The two are different. The 6n15nEB (or EV) is the primo military type. The "standard" version that Svetlana (SED St. Petersburg) branded as the SV83 back when is the 6n15nM. The 6n14n (also can be labeled 6P14P) is a true EL84 type, and the same extra EV or EB suffixes mean the premium military version.

The 6n14n/6P14P has lower transconductance, slightly higher plate resistance, a higher screen grid rating (thicker screen grid wire), and has the suppressor grid wired internally to the cathode, whereas the 6n15nM's suppressor grid is externally accessible via pins 1 and 6.

This means that when you run an SV83 in your Decware amp, the suppressor grid is not being used. But when using an EL84, it is. The SV83 operates with less distortion and more like a "real" triode with the suppressor not connected. Besides the obvious differences in electrical characteristics, this is one of the reasons that SV83s and EL84s sound so completely different in Decware amps.

Linearity is another. The EL84 makes a highly linear strapped triode. The SV83 makes an insanely linear strapped triode. Add to that the absence of the suppressor grid operation and the excellent linearity of the 6N1P, and you get a SE amp that's very clean sounding without using global negative feedback.

Eddie Smiley [/quote]

I thought I'd repost an Eddie Vaughn comment concerning the EB vs. the EV designation, not to prove anyone right or wrong, but just because there seems to be quite a bit of general interest in these particular valves.

Maybe they're the same but come from different factories, or one of those deals? The group buy of military sv83's that "gnat leader" so graciously assisted with last year have the 6n15n "EB" designation.

Anyhow...

Karl
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« Last Edit: 06/09/06 at 19:54:52 by veryoldcat »  
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Rap
Ex Member



Re: NEW Decware Amplifier
Reply #47 - 06/09/06 at 20:17:18
 
I have the Ebīs and gz32īs and am a Mister Content for now.
Wonderfull bass and seperation (though my new 650 sq fett room is prooving a bit problematic) So pip pip Ebīs all the way
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Yoda
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Re: NEW Decware Amplifier
Reply #48 - 06/09/06 at 20:45:02
 
Beautiful amp.  Am curious if there are PS differences between the Original CS and the ZS?

Consider me on board for a kit/plate CSP2 as soon as that is available.

Matt
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DukeJupiter
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Re: NEW Decware Amplifier
Reply #49 - 06/10/06 at 13:00:59
 
The new amp looks great.  I would guess that the plate layout is much easier to wire since the builder doesn't have to deal with the sides of the former box getting in the way.

It would be great to get a look inside to see how the layout changed (just curious).  Are the first 10 sold yet, because I'm nibbling on the hook of that $799 introductory price.

DUKE!
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Steve Deckert
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If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

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Re: NEW Decware Amplifier
Reply #50 - 06/10/06 at 17:10:26
 
[quote author=Yoda  link=1149544554/45#48 date=1149882302]Beautiful amp.  Am curious if there are PS differences between the Original CS and the ZS?

Consider me on board for a kit/plate CSP2 as soon as that is available.

Matt [/quote]


Thank you.  There are no power supply differences other then the power transformer itself is significantly larger to meet world voltage and C.E. specifications.

The plate does offer provisions for up to one choke per channel which would no doubt have interesting effects, but there is an art to power supply design and while appearing overly simple, the original power supply design is largely responsible for the signature and performance characteristics of the amp.  The SE84CS has a long and proven track record of being "just right" so it would be foolish to change it at this point.


BTW - The owners manual is now completed and online.  Here is a direct link to the manual.  It is in a .pdf format (875K)

http://www.decware.com/ZSmanual.pdf






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« Last Edit: 06/10/06 at 21:32:31 by Steve Deckert »  
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Pyewacket
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Re: NEW Decware Amplifier
Reply #51 - 06/12/06 at 13:57:14
 
Can the MK II have the same base as the new ZS?
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Steve Deckert
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If the 1st watt
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Re: NEW Decware Amplifier
Reply #52 - 06/13/06 at 02:01:50
 
You can the same base for the TORII Mk II, yes.

Steve
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primetime
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Re: NEW Decware Amplifier
Reply #53 - 06/19/06 at 14:11:14
 
New amp looks great.  Question - where is the bias switch?
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Steve Deckert
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Re: NEW Decware Amplifier
Reply #54 - 06/22/06 at 02:37:55
 
In an effort to further improve the sonics the bias switch has been eliminated.  The tube is now biased exactly inbetween the two original settings of the prior model. So far I believe this was a wise decision, time will tell.
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primetime
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Re: NEW Decware Amplifier
Reply #55 - 06/22/06 at 19:37:50
 
[quote author=Steve Deckert  link=1150659727/45#54 date=1150940275]In an effort to further improve the sonics the bias switch has been eliminated. †The tube is now biased exactly inbetween the two original settings of the prior model. So far I believe this was a wise decision, time will tell. [/quote]

Good news - I always felt the laid back position was too laid back and the forward position was too forward and often wondered if the amp could be custom biased in the "middle".  For that reason alone, I may just sell the C I have buy the new amp just to get the "right" signature being the anal listener I am (we are).
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chrisby
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Re: NEW Decware Amplifier
Reply #56 - 06/22/06 at 22:12:57
 
[quote author=primetime  link=1150659727/45#55 date=1151001470]

Good news - I always felt the laid back position was too laid back and the forward position was too forward and often wondered if the amp could be custom biased in the "middle".  For that reason alone, I may just sell the C I have buy the new amp just to get the "right" signature being the anal listener I am (we are).
[/quote]


or just bypass (or repurpose) the switch and install the revised value cathode resistors
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lightmaster
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Re: NEW Decware Amplifier
Reply #57 - 06/25/06 at 21:03:38
 
what are the values of the 3 different bias resistors?
and is the effect linear or exponential so to say.

I also thought the forward position too aggressive and the back too recessed and always wished something 2/3 towards the forward position

(man this is an obsession, some of my friends think I am mental when I talk about some details I do care for in my system, but at least HERE I am in GOOD COMPANY I guess Smiley

f

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« Last Edit: 06/25/06 at 21:04:12 by lightmaster »  
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boead
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Re: NEW Decware Amplifier
Reply #58 - 07/01/06 at 18:25:06
 
[quote author=Steve Deckert  link=1150659727/15#20 date=1149721775]I'd be willing to bet everyone who's just stated their Select's are not warm and lush but rather just the opposite are not using the 6N1P from the factory tube compliment.  Rather you got suckered into more detail and better focus of NOS 6922's and or 6DJ8's.  So basically your amps sound the way you made them sound.  ;) [/quote]

You know I hate it when Steve D. is always right!

Iíve had my Select for a couple of years as it is now, somewhat modified.

I lived with the combination of a GZ32 rectifier, a pair of Mullard EL84ís and Amprex PQ white label 6922.  

I decided to live with all the stock tubes, which I did for a couple of weeks. I first tried replacing the Ruby, it has too much mechanical noise and besides all the other NOS rectifiers I tried sounded better, even just a little. For whatever reason the GZ32 (I have two) sounds a little more transparent and has a little more weight and bass that I like.

I then rolled through input tubes, slowly.
I tried a classic Bugle Boy 6DJ8, Amprex PQ 6922, Mullard (Blackburn) 6DJ8, Sovtek 6N1P.
The 6N1P is the overall best at compromise. Its sound is well balanced. It has nice weight and bass, not as tight as the Amprex tubes but fuller but not as full as the Mullard, although the Mullard can be a bit soft and mushy (like an Elephant), its rich and tubey. The 6N1Pís high end is clear and detailed but maybe a little dry (no grit or sharp edge when its sometimes needed) but still never too bright or raspy. The Amprexís top end is a little too edgy and doesnít quite extend as high as the 6N1P although its very transparent and has clearly has MORE detail then the 6N1P. The Mullard has the least amount of high end detail and at times is almost veiled, at times its pleasant and very musical but other times it obviously lacking detail.
The midrange/vocal range of the 6N1P is somewhat back, a little dark and quiet. Nicely transparent, good weight but is lacks tight focus in the sound stage, overall more forgiving. The Amprexís were both more upfront and more detailed, somewhat congested at times and overly revealing. Focus is very tight on the PQ and although the sound stage is tighter and more defined spatially the overall width and depth appears smaller then the 6N1P. Male vocalist have SO much detail and nuance itís very alluring. The Mullard has an almost creamy midrange, although lacking detail its so darn musical. Soundstage is big, wide and deep, and very transparent and a row or two back from the 6N1P.

The Mullard is by far the most musical and make nearly everything you play sound good! If youíre listening critically to well recorded music, itís not as detailed or as focused and could be considered bass heavy, classic tube sound.

The 6N1P is the best balanced and compromising. Not the best at anything but it might be the best tube for the amp. I keep going back to it, its musical, detailed and enjoyable to listen, especially when rolling through all different types of music.

The Amprex PQ is great but can be most critical of material. Lots and lots of detail, less full and abundant bass a pronounced midrange and high end thatís not bright. Very tight top to bottom but can be a little edgy, raspy and overly revealing.

The Amprex BBoy is much like the Amprex PQ but more relaxed with a brighter top end. Sometimes it comes across as the best compromise but I like the darkness in my system. I recently introduced a PS Audio Juice Bar which is no more then a good quality 6 outlet power strip with no protection or filtering at all. You can roll power cords to the bar that has a profound effect on the entire system. I gained a lot more detail and a more upfront presentation by eliminating the power conditioner for the preamp and all sources. The amp is always plugged directly into the all. Iím trying different power cords on the CD Player, one that has a cap inline and does some very basic and mild filtering (K-Works brand) that I like a lot so far.


Changing Rectifiers has its own effects but as Iíve said the GZ32 is really the only one I seem to like for any extended time.

Next Iíll roll through power tubes. Iím down to just the SV83ís, EiElite EL84ís and a pair of Blackburn Mullard EL84ís. Iím expecting to like the SV83ís best.


I have plenty of time on my hands, off of work till Wednesday and Iíve been working home since Tuesday.

Anyone hear about the floods in New York? My family (wife, kids, dogs) are in Delaware County on a vacation in a house we own in town. The town was completely flooded with over 3 feet of rain water that breached many of the local reservoirs. Our old house is built high so no water made it into the first floor but the town is devastated. National Guard are fixing sewer and water (fixed as of this morning), handing out water and food. Until today you couldnít get in or out of the area, most roads were too highly damaged.

My Van filled with water halfway up the seats and the soonest I can get a rental van is Monday!

So Iím home listening to music.


Itís amazing what a couple of Tanqueray and tonics will do to the sound stage.


Happy 4th

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Hotsauce
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Re: NEW Decware Amplifier
Reply #59 - 07/01/06 at 18:59:11
 
Yeah, flooding was bad in places.  I had my yellow submarine in some deep water, but not up past the bottom of the doors.

John C.
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