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wo for 12s a lil help please. (Read 8363 times)
60ndown
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wo for 12s a lil help please.
06/09/06 at 02:26:51
 
looks like im buying more mdf Wink going to build a wo for 2 x 12s, questiuon is this,
with all you guys knowledge, would you build it 36x36x14 or, scale it with the same ratio a 10 is to a 12, ie multiply all dimensions by 1.2 (or the surface area difference?)

im leaning towards scaleing the whole thing because it sems right to build the thing a bit bigger for a bit bigger sub, trying to squeeze a 12 into a box made for 10s seems silly 2 mi. wadda you think and why?
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J_Rock
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #1 - 06/09/06 at 02:46:56
 
From the guy shouting "Don't Mod Steve's Designs..."

I would follow steve's plans then.  Add 2 inches.

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Gex
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #2 - 06/09/06 at 04:13:19
 
same here
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60ndown
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #3 - 06/09/06 at 06:02:40
 
[quote author=J_Rock  link=1149820011/0#1 date=1149817616]From the guy shouting "Don't Mod Steve's Designs..."



[/quote]

not modding it, building it the same, just bigger?
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djman37
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #4 - 06/09/06 at 22:28:58
 
I built UP and love it. Grin
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bassboy
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #5 - 06/11/06 at 02:46:15
 
60, you could probably do it either way with success.  But at the same time I would try to leave the horn flare alone.

If you want a guess, I'd say it was designed the way it was because that is the design that was most successful for 10 inch drivers.  Adding two inches in height changes the horn enough as it is, expanding all dimensions by 1.2x would make further significant changes.

I am very wary to take liberties with the horn part.  It works more like a high efficiency, low distortion, wide range port than a horn, in my estimation.  Making it significantly longer might make it act more like a horn, and that's not good for a horn this size.

I think there are reasons that 15's and 18's are not recommended.  I think scaling the height alone makes too much change to the horn section and not enough in the driver chambers.

Remember that this is just a guess, but I think the box was made specifically for 10 inch drivers but happens to be flexible enough to accomodate a couple of inches either way with good results.

So I don't think you should change the horn more than you have to.  But you can probably safely change the chambers that feed the horn.  Make the chambers bigger (the sealed chamber mainly) and the tuning of the chambers will lower.

This is all just speculation but it seems to me that the further you deviate from the plans without understanding the implications, the more risk you are taking.  It's all at your own risk.
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Gex
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #6 - 06/11/06 at 04:24:40
 
60
remember awhile back somebody was going to modify the WO so the sealed chamber was bigger or a mod of some sort that left a triangular hump to the top lid.
I wonder what came of it? I don't remember who and threads were disappearing back then.

I would not mess with the "horn part" I would add 2" I think thats what Big air used and it worked, but correct me if I am wrong.

how about you try a 12" WO32 and let me know how it works, nobodys done it yet that I know of.
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60ndown
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #7 - 06/11/06 at 05:53:06
 
[quote author=bassboy  link=1149820011/0#5 date=1149990375]60, you could probably do it either way with success.  But at the same time I would try to leave the horn flare alone.

If you want a guess, I'd say it was designed the way it was because that is the design that was most successful for 10 inch drivers.  Adding two inches in height changes the horn enough as it is, expanding all dimensions by 1.2x would make further significant changes.

I am very wary to take liberties with the horn part.  It works more like a high efficiency, low distortion, wide range port than a horn, in my estimation.  Making it significantly longer might make it act more like a horn, and that's not good for a horn this size.

I think there are reasons that 15's and 18's are not recommended.  I think scaling the height alone makes too much change to the horn section and not enough in the driver chambers.

Remember that this is just a guess, but I think the box was made specifically for 10 inch drivers but happens to be flexible enough to accomodate a couple of inches either way with good results.

So I don't think you should change the horn more than you have to.  But you can probably safely change the chambers that feed the horn.  Make the chambers bigger (the sealed chamber mainly) and the tuning of the chambers will lower.

This is all just speculation but it seems to me that the further you deviate from the plans without understanding the implications, the more risk you are taking.  It's all at your own risk. [/quote]

thanks for the thoughts, if you have anymore before monday / tuesday let me know.dont horns get better the longer they are? more throat to controll the wave? i know nothing Cheesy
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Adrian D.
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #8 - 06/11/06 at 07:01:59
 
[quote author=Gex  link=1149820011/0#6 date=1149996280]60
remember awhile back somebody was going to modify the WO so the sealed chamber was bigger or a mod of some sort that left a triangular hump to the top lid.
I wonder what came of it? I don't remember who and threads were disappearing back then.

I would not mess with the "horn part" I would add 2" I think thats what Big air used and it worked, but correct me if I am wrong.

how about you try a 12" WO32 and let me know how it works, nobodys done it yet that I know of. [/quote]
hmmm, Jrock said that using high excursion drivers (rl-p has 24mm xmax) in front loaded horns might not have good results. at least not at high power.
60, did you manage to find another rl-p ?
too bad mike doesn't sell rl-p 10s Sad
it would surely be a great choice for a wo.
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60ndown
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #9 - 06/11/06 at 13:27:15
 
[quote author=Adrian D.  link=1149820011/0#8 date=1150005719]
hmmm, Jrock said that using high excursion drivers (rl-p has 24mm xmax) in front loaded horns might not have good results. at least not at high power.
60, did you manage to find another rl-p ?
too bad mike doesn't sell rl-p 10s Sad
it would surely be a great choice for a wo. [/quote]

yes i will be useing 2 x rl-p in my new w.o.i hope the high excursion isnt an issue, perhaps if i open the throat just a little from 1.25" too 2". i cant think why a scaled version for bigger subs would perform any differently than the standard version with smaller subs?, other than it 'should' play louder and lower?
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Adrian D.
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #10 - 06/11/06 at 14:08:18
 
i'm pretty sure it won't pose any problems. just ask on ssa about a reccomended port area for the rl-p12. the wo provides 17 sqin of port area if the opening is 1.25" * 14". should be enough.
i don't think scaling up will play a lot lower. THAT would be messing with the design.
just how much sealed volume does the wo offer ?
recomended sealed box for the rl-p is around 1.25 cf.
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J_Rock
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #11 - 06/11/06 at 15:21:22
 
WRT high excursion drivers in horns:  The problem high excursion drivers had were with the use of compression chambers like the WO has.  They tend to muddy the bass when used.  

60 sounds like the kind of guy that will be turning it up full blast occasionally, just to show off or impress.  So in his case, I doubt the high excursion will pose a problem.

I would just stay away from high excursion drivers in compression chamber style horns if they are to be used at high output for most of their lives.  There are better designs that won't produce the muddienes.(sp)

Case in point, the WO32.  No compression chamber, and at the loss of a little output, it performs better with more speed and accuracy but with a close to equal ability to go low.
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J_Rock
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #12 - 06/11/06 at 15:29:29
 
Sorry for the second post.

In regards to useing the recommended sealed enclosure volume, vented enclosure port area etc.

You cannot expect to know what the WO will do for your sub while just compareing the recommended enclosure specs to the WO.  Changing one thing on the WO, like throat size, will result in a different animal. (Steve recommends opening the throat more for the WO to play High Frequencies better.)

Messing with the chamber sizes will change the Q of the box and make it sound boomier or more quiet.

The only way to get a good representation would be to model a 4th order BP tuned to 45 Hz with the chambers the same size as the WOs.  This is what Steve suggests, and what has worked for me in the past.

So what does this mean?  Well 60, if you want to decide to scale or to add 2 inches:

Model the 4th order BP tuned to 45Hz with both changes done.  It won't compensate for the different horn dimensions, but it will give you an idea of how the volume changes of the chambers in each situation will help or hurt the WO's ability.

But I would not scale it for some of the same reasons as BassBoy mentioned.  Added to the fact that if the WO is a horn, horns do not work the same when scaled.  If it is indeed an "Impedance transformer" or "Rubber throat"  basically a wideband port, changeing it by scaling will mess with it even more than adding 2 inches.  SO I would select the lesser of two evils.
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Gex
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #13 - 06/11/06 at 16:23:39
 
Just Add 2" inches and your model will tell you if you need to move the baffle a little.
Do not move it back towards the sealed chamber.

IMHO
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« Last Edit: 06/11/06 at 16:28:49 by gexter »  
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60ndown
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #14 - 06/11/06 at 16:45:10
 
i have /use/ understand no software, winamp boxbuild etc.but it seems your all saying not to scale it? but just to add 2 inches in height and angle the baffle? can you explain in simple terms what effect scaleing it by 1.2 might have? to me it seems the shape and layout of the horn / throat is almost identical , just a little bigger? cant see how that will effect / change performace that much, but if you can shed some light on the issue for me id appreciate it.
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60ndown
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #15 - 06/11/06 at 16:47:35
 
my wo21 is scaled with the same idea (from 10 inchers to 6.5") and sounds excellent. but i use no test equpiment either ?
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bassboy
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #16 - 06/11/06 at 17:08:31
 
60, it's hard to say what will happen.  The reason is because the horn is way too small to do what it does if horn theory is applied to it.  It is true that bigger horns are better if you want to go low, but we are talking about a horn that is about 20 feet long with a 27 sq foot mouth to get a 20 hz note.  And that still requires corner loading.  Use that sucker for a coffee table (lol) and it would suck hard.  You don't want to mod that much, do you?

Nobody really knows exactly what will happen when you mess with the horn, that's why you aren't getting any more than guesses.

But everyone seems to agree that you should change it only as much as you absolutely have to.

If I had to do it, I might extend the height and width (to make the chambers a bit bigger), and leave the depth alone.  But I would also take care not to make the horn longer, or change it in any way.  Now it won't fit in a car anymore either.  If you don't care about going lower, just add 2 inches, I can almost guarantee that will be the loudest option.
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« Last Edit: 06/11/06 at 17:17:41 by bassboy »  
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bassboy
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #17 - 06/11/06 at 19:29:17
 
Here's another way to think about it.  If you scaled it all the way up to Imperial size, it would act like a real horn.  You would get a lot more sensitivity and more volume for the input power.

That also means it would absolutely require corner loading, it would not work properly without the corner.  But even with the corner loading your low frequency cutoff, where it starts to drop like a rock, is going to be around 40 hz for the mouth size and expansion rate.  The regular 10 inch WO goes lower than that.

So you can see that the WO horn is just too small to work according to horn theory, that's why I said it works more like a port on steroids, as far as I can tell.  I don't completely understand it but it works if you don't mess with it too much.

In my opinion, adding 2 inches to the height alone is a mod from the original plans, because the box is designed for 10's.  Anything else you change is a mod to the mod and it is unlikely that anyone (except maybe Steve) will be able to tell you exactly what is going to happen.  But I'm guessing if you asked him, he would say what he already said, add two inches to the height.

Good luck.
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« Last Edit: 06/11/06 at 19:31:26 by bassboy »  
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Gex
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #18 - 06/11/06 at 20:06:28
 

Now if anyone thinks differant or knows differant I am all ears
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« Last Edit: 06/11/06 at 20:07:16 by gexter »  
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60ndown
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #19 - 06/11/06 at 20:17:19
 
where does steve sujjest adding 2 inches for 12s?
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Gex
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #20 - 06/11/06 at 22:33:24
 
[quote author=60ndown  link=1149820011/15#19 date=1150053439]where does steve sujjest adding 2 inches for 12s? [/quote]

Well until I can get back onto ADSL the search is up to you.
I did talk with him about putting 12" in a WO32 quite awhile back, and he said to use 12" in a WO instead and adjust the height to accomdate the larger driver.( too slow to use spell checker, now you know I can't spell either LOL)
then in HT forum when we were talking about HT specifically he said to use the DB12.

I never doubt Steve I just like to play around and not follow good advice.
I need a better driver to make it work well and his dayton series 2 choice is what I would use.
Thats all I got 60. I see that you posted in the general I would like to see what comes of that with the pros in there.
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« Last Edit: 06/11/06 at 22:35:23 by gexter »  
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musgofasa
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #21 - 06/12/06 at 01:34:55
 
Hey 60, I just realized this post was over here after I replied to your other post a few minutes ago. After reading the posts here, I have a little more info that might be more appropriate.
Way back in the day (1999 to be exact) I had built several 10"WO and experimented with porting the sealed chamber, angling the baffle, moving the baffle etc in an attempt to make the box play louder. Every change I made to the original design had the affect of changing the frequency response of the enclosure. moving the baffle towards the throat made the frequency response a little lower, but made the box very boomy. It did not help the SPL output at all. (In car) When I built a WO exactly by the plans and put a pair of 8" woofers in it I was so surprised at how clean and loud the box was. I later took and swapped to building Vented enclosures for SPL for reasons of achieveing a wall mounting in vehicles. I built a box for a CRX with 2 JL 15W3s and went a little overboard. I used the flare rate and the length from a WO36 and extended the port all the way to the front and double loaded the box. This thing was so smooth and Loud it was unbelievable. That has been my approach to almost every project since then. Basically I think of the WO as a band pass enclosure with a tuned port. The horn flare isn't long enough to act as a transducer and or impedance changing device across much of a frequency range. When I added to all the dimensions of the enclosure I found that the desired effect of the horn/port was lost. It just became a long port rather than having any positive effect on sound quality.
The rub is you don't know what it will sound like until it is built and you don't know if you will like it until you hear it. I know that for my personal tastes, I wouldn't build the box in a 1.2 size unless I was looking for large bass and little freq range. I think that would be a safe bet. If you are only looking to make it sound bigger then scale away. I wouldn't want to try to model the output based on the horn length as it is so short that I am sure it would only show a graph like that of a tuned port or a standard "bass reflex" enclosure. If you like that idea, then I would say build away though. Perhaps the question is what is the sound that you hope to achieve and what science and experience is available to work towards that goal. Wish I could offer a solid answer here, but I think it is a little bit of a niche that hasn't been tested enough to give good, solid answers about. Unfortunately all of my experience with 12" WOs has been boomy and SPL intended for cars not homes. All of the Home audio experience I have with WO has been great, but little mods. Hope you get what you are looking for there 60. let us know.

Robert
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60ndown
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #22 - 06/12/06 at 02:21:17
 
[quote author=musgofasa  link=1149820011/15#21 date=1150072495]Hey 60, I just realized this post was over here after I replied to your other post a few minutes ago. After reading the posts here, I have a little more info that might be more appropriate.
Way back in the day (1999 to be exact) I had built several 10"WO and experimented with porting the sealed chamber, angling the baffle, moving the baffle etc in an attempt to make the box play louder. Every change I made to the original design had the affect of changing the frequency response of the enclosure. moving the baffle towards the throat made the frequency response a little lower, but made the box very boomy. It did not help the SPL output at all. (In car) When I built a WO exactly by the plans and put a pair of 8" woofers in it I was so surprised at how clean and loud the box was. I later took and swapped to building Vented enclosures for SPL for reasons of achieveing a wall mounting in vehicles. I built a box for a CRX with 2 JL 15W3s and went a little overboard. I used the flare rate and the length from a WO36 and extended the port all the way to the front and double loaded the box. This thing was so smooth and Loud it was unbelievable. That has been my approach to almost every project since then. Basically I think of the WO as a band pass enclosure with a tuned port. The horn flare isn't long enough to act as a transducer and or impedance changing device across much of a frequency range. When I added to all the dimensions of the enclosure I found that the desired effect of the horn/port was lost. It just became a long port rather than having any positive effect on sound quality.
The rub is you don't know what it will sound like until it is built and you don't know if you will like it until you hear it. I know that for my personal tastes, I wouldn't build the box in a 1.2 size unless I was looking for large bass and little freq range. I think that would be a safe bet. If you are only looking to make it sound bigger then scale away. I wouldn't want to try to model the output based on the horn length as it is so short that I am sure it would only show a graph like that of a tuned port or a standard "bass reflex" enclosure. If you like that idea, then I would say build away though. Perhaps the question is what is the sound that you hope to achieve and what science and experience is available to work towards that goal. Wish I could offer a solid answer here, but I think it is a little bit of a niche that hasn't been tested enough to give good, solid answers about. Unfortunately all of my experience with 12" WOs has been boomy and SPL intended for cars not homes. All of the Home audio experience I have with WO has been great, but little mods. Hope you get what you are looking for there 60. let us know.

Robert [/quote]

great response thanks, what i want first is excellent sq, secondly the ability to make 'sickeningly' loud and accurate bass (but retaining absolute sq) if im in the mood.not spl, just amazing sq and really loud (sql).from your above post im guessing any variation from the 'origional wo10' results in a less flat response? so like i have been told above, sounds like building it 36 x36 x 14.5 is the first version i must try! but it will a few days before im ready to build it so if you think of anything else i would appreciate the heads up.
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« Last Edit: 06/12/06 at 02:22:02 by 60ndown »  
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musgofasa
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #23 - 06/12/06 at 10:02:20
 
[quote author=60ndown  link=1149820011/15#22 date=1150075277]

from your above post im guessing any variation from the 'origional wo10' results in a less flat response? so like i have been told above, sounds like building it 36 x36 x 14.5 is the first version i must try! [/quote]
Yup. Of the 30 or so of these monsters I have built, the best sounding ones have been with the original design. I would have to say that even the variations sounded good, but the response became more like a standard "Ported" box with a definite spike in spl at a specific frequency. The original isn't exaclty "flat" but it is very much smooth with a wider band than the variations that I made. If anyone has experimented with the dimensions in such a way as to build one very big with a much shallower taper, I would like to know how it turned out. This would be a huge mod though and I think could no longer be considered any part of the WO design. I like the peakiness of the variations as I have always used electronic crossovers and eq to try to compensate. I am certain that were I to go all Tube amp and passives however that my sq would not be very good with the variations. This is definitely my goal in my next project to be able to build a set of towers that will not need the extra electronic intervention. Perhaps without the extras, I will find a more "true to life" sound. OK, back to work. I need to make some drawings lol.

Robert


Note: I did just recall something else. I have built the WO in 36x36, 36x34, 36x32, 36x28 and 36x24 for 10s, 8s, and 12s. The twelves in the 36x36 sounded best to me with a lower respone frequency, but I am certain that was mostly due to the increased CC volume. I also have a version with a ported reaar chamber that I built for a pair of 8s and a pair of 12s. It required building the 12 inch version 18" tall in order to get the volume I was looking for.This box was so loud as to be pretty unreal and the response was great fron 45 to 100hz unfortunately it had little to nothing below 45 though. Let me know if you would like to see the plans for that. I am sure I can transfer them to the computer pretty easy. I might could even scan in the drawing at work today. I will look back at my notes and see what I wrote down about the changes I made to different WOs.
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60ndown
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #24 - 06/12/06 at 12:52:40
 
i want as flat as possible from 18 too 60 / 70  hz, in my car with this box.flat dry accurate bass with the ability to get plenty loud.did you ever build 1 with the difference in size being equal to the difference in sq inch area between a 10 and a 12? i have no idea what that is? wed have to work out the sq inch of a 10 then a 12 and reveal the % of difference. then build the new wo by that % scaleing difference.i just dont understand why, if the layout of the wo is kept identical to the origional, just bigger, why it will change the performance, taper would be the same?
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Adrian D.
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #25 - 06/12/06 at 14:01:50
 
seeing how the rl-i 10 performs... (better than my db-10 + infinity ref1040w, only it's in a box twice the size of mike recomeds) i'd suggest trying the wo with 2 of rl-is. but you will have to watch the gain. the orion could kill them. maybe wire each in series and parallel the 2 subs. it would present the orion a 4 ohm load.
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« Last Edit: 06/12/06 at 14:02:35 by adi_ro »  
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60ndown
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #26 - 06/12/06 at 14:17:49
 
[quote author=Adrian D.  link=1149820011/15#25 date=1150117310]seeing how the rl-i 10 performs... (better than my db-10 + infinity ref1040w, only it's in a box twice the size of mike recomeds) i'd suggest trying the wo with 2 of rl-is. but you will have to watch the gain. the orion could kill them. maybe wire each in series and parallel the 2 subs. it would present the orion a 4 ohm load. [/quote]

no, going to use these rl-ps if it kills me.not buying new subs, the wife will kill me Wink
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musgofasa
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #27 - 06/12/06 at 14:19:14
 
Hey 60,
I was wondering if this was going in a car. Completely different animal in a car than in a room. It should work fine to make the box grow if you have the room for it. I have built a couple of 12 inch boxes that were scaled up in every direction to be 1.2 x bigger for blazers and a pair for an astro once.
They sounds great. The only thing you do not want to change is the throat opening. Leave it at 1.25 inches. You may even consider cutting it down to 1 inch. This will ensure keeping the lower frequencies solid. The horn mouth and everything else stay in the same flare and the tuning of the box can be accomplished by moving it around a bit in the vehicle. I say go for it and I don't think you will be dissapointed. I will see my notes and see if I have anything on the actual dimensions I used. I believe the last one of these monsters I built was in 2001. I remember extending the throat opening a couple inches into the chamber if I am not mistaken and I am certain I angled the subs in a bit. I will have to check, though for the dimensions.
It might be a couple weeks before I find that since I am going out of town. I will see what I can find, though, as soon as I have some time.
Good luck

Robert
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60ndown
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #28 - 06/12/06 at 20:33:47
 
why is it ok to scale it for a car but not for a house?
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musgofasa
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #29 - 06/12/06 at 22:49:25
 
Cabin Gain

I actually don't know if it is a bad thing to adjust the box dimensions for a house because I haven't experimented with that one yet, but in a car, I can fairly predict the outcome. The small dimensions of a car eliminate the worry of standing waves and reflections. You also have the issue of a car fairly tuning itself as a second part of the enclosure, Scaling the WO to a bigger size will make it more efficient so I can predict that it will get louder and lower inside the relatively small space. Add this to the fact that a car has very different sonic performance and stage and the variations to the box become far less important.
I wish I could say the same for a house and maybe in the near future I will begin experimenting with those, but for now I have a lot of experience with automobile environments. If you had come to my shop and asked the same questions, I wouldn't hesitate to go ahead and build the box for you. I did have a policy that if you didn't like an enclosure I built, I would build another one to your liking free of charge.
Let me know how it turns out. I will sit down with my notes as soon as I have a chance and get you the dimensions on the scaled WOs that I built and how I made mods and what results it had in what vehicles. Lot of stuff in my archives, but it is buried at the moment as I haven't done it in a couple years.

Catch you later!
Robert
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60ndown
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #30 - 06/12/06 at 23:43:58
 
anyone ever tried a 12" housewrecker in a car? my car being a toyota previa 7 seater mini van.
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musgofasa
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #31 - 06/13/06 at 01:03:25
 
Now there is one I never tried lol. I did do an unconventional tqwt for 4 18s in an astro once that was unbearable lol.
I have done compound band pass enclosures for 12s that were similar to the HW, but I have never done the actual box. Anyone else?

Oh I forgot what kind of vehicle you said. Hmmmmm
12s you say? Must.....get.......notes....................

Oy Vey! I remember now! I have a (albeit very large) bandpass design for 3 12" subs that was pretty awesome. I also did a larger vented box for 2 12s that had surprisingly flat response while setting several SPL records at NOPI (156db w/ 2000 watts or so in a 4d blazer) and a few other comps in the area around the beach. That one I am sure I could draw up again and I know it would get off in a van. Hmmmm the gears are turning again lol.
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60ndown
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #32 - 06/13/06 at 01:13:02
 
im no spl guy, im a sq with as much L as possible Wink
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musgofasa
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #33 - 06/13/06 at 01:20:25
 
LOL
It's been a long time. It was way too easy to get caught up trying to make things louder. Considering the vehicle, I would seriously say do the WO. It is much faster and more "real" sounding than any other BP enclosure I have used and I feel certain that you will be able to play with it's placement to get the tone and punch you are looking for. The mods would be relative and I think it would perform very well for you. If you are looking for more SQ than even the WO, I would consider a compression design. I built a very cool and easy design a long time ago that was very solid, but unfortunately it was not very nice to my woofers. The sound was as good as anything I have built, but my woofers disentigrated after a few months of pounding on them. If you like, I can find the measurements on that thing for you too just to kick around.
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60ndown
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #34 - 06/13/06 at 05:08:00
 
[quote author=musgofasa  link=1149820011/30#33 date=1150158025]LOL
It's been a long time. It was way too easy to get caught up trying to make things louder. Considering the vehicle, I would seriously say do the WO. It is much faster and more "real" sounding than any other BP enclosure I have used and I feel certain that you will be able to play with it's placement to get the tone and punch you are looking for. The mods would be relative and I think it would perform very well for you. If you are looking for more SQ than even the WO, I would consider a compression design. I built a very cool and easy design a long time ago that was very solid, but unfortunately it was not very nice to my woofers. The sound was as good as anything I have built, but my woofers disentigrated after a few months of pounding on them. If you like, I can find the measurements on that thing for you too just to kick around. [/quote]

compression!??, now your talkin bout the death box right?
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musgofasa
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #35 - 06/13/06 at 10:43:31
 
Um Well, Not exactly,
This was a quick idea we had a long time ago for 3 tens that got transferred to 2 12". It was really easy to build and it blew our minds at how accurate it was. Unfortunately the upper woofers seemed to suffer cone failure and exploded a few times. Nonetheless, I was shocked at how smooth and accurate (and at the same time LOUD) this box was in car.
Here is a really quick sketch.

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60ndown
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #36 - 06/13/06 at 12:58:43
 
looks interesting  ???
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60ndown
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #37 - 06/13/06 at 13:01:52
 
i wonder if it was built wide rather than long , if it would save woofers?
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musgofasa
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #38 - 06/13/06 at 13:47:39
 
In all reality, there was no engineering in that enclosure. It was just an idea that we acted on and afterwards were surprised with the reusults. If anybody would like to model it and see what the numbers look like it was pretty simple.
The enclosure for 12s was 14 inches wide x 12 inches tall and 32 inches long. The opening is 2" and the sides are symmetrical. (The board is 2" from the bottom at the opposite end from the opening. Simple, quick and surprisingly good sounding. Scrap wood and scrap woofers turned into loading 18 10" woofers in a crx lol.
6 boxes stacked with 3 10" in each lol.

Robert
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Hellion
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #39 - 10/14/06 at 06:56:45
 
Just curious... would a single high watt high excursion 12" work with

Or does it require two drivers?
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« Last Edit: 10/14/06 at 06:57:54 by Hellion »  
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musgofasa
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #40 - 10/15/06 at 03:08:48
 
It worked pretty awesome with a single 10' high excursion driver. I don't remember the dimensions off hand.
I will sit down monday and draw it up for you. I think I can remember how this one worked lol. I won't promise that the woofer will stay together under extreme power though. We did have some explosions with this thing, LOL.

Robert
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mrezstreet
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #41 - 10/16/06 at 15:30:48
 
what if a guy keeped the drivers at the bottem of the box if it would keep from killine the sub?
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musgofasa
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #42 - 10/16/06 at 16:24:08
 
I don't think it would be an issue with only one driver. The biggest problems we had were when we went to three drivers. My belief is that the subs were fighting each other to compress the air in front and behind at different rates because of the taper. It sounded great and produced massive SPL for a small enclosure, but the woofer that always blew was the one at the back of the enclosure.
The cone actually disentigrated in a few of these.

Robert
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mrezstreet
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Re: wo for 12s a lil help please.
Reply #43 - 10/16/06 at 17:27:14
 
i was speaking or the multi diver setup you had spoke of ^^^
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