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DFR8's (Read 32508 times)
gnat leader
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DFR8's
04/28/06 at 22:21:58
 
Still waiting for mine. I haven't heard anyting. Not even when they are expected to ship.  Anyone heard anything?
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« Last Edit: 05/05/06 at 23:23:27 by Brad »  
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gnat leader
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Re: Still awaiting DFR8's
Reply #1 - 05/02/06 at 18:02:09
 
Yay! I got shipment notification today.  Estimated arrival by Friday.  Gonna be hard to get out of the house this weekend Smiley
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crazy bill the eel killer
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Re: Still awaiting DFR8's
Reply #2 - 05/03/06 at 02:12:43
 
Hey Brad,

Glad to hear they're coming.
Please post impressions ASAP!!! (I'm especially interested since I plan to add the Aurum tweeter to the DFR8 )

We'll be waiting with, as they say, baited breath !!

Cheers, Bill :D :
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« Last Edit: 05/03/06 at 02:13:16 by Crazy Bill the Eel Killer »  
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gnat leader
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #3 - 05/05/06 at 23:28:24
 
Got them in just now.  That is the most serious job of packaging I've ever seen!  

You know I'm gonna throw them bad boys in the HDT's... like tonight!

fun, fun, fun....

I'm gonna break them in and do all auditioning without having my ribbon tweeters hooked up.  I want to become fully accustomed to the sound of the DFR8's before I ever listen with the tweeters. That way I can tell better if the tweeters make the DFR8's sound better, worse, or if they are just not needed at all.
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« Last Edit: 05/05/06 at 23:29:30 by Brad »  
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Chris K
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #4 - 05/06/06 at 02:40:18
 
I can't imagine the highs will be improved in the range yourr running your Aurum Cantus Brad. It's likely you still dig the ribbons in. Betcha a saltine craker  :)
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gnat leader
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #5 - 05/06/06 at 09:56:34
 
Yeah, Chris, You're prob right.

Btw, many that's quite a speaker collection you have...
The MG944's, Hawthorne SI's, and Ed's Horns.
I know what the Horns sound like, but how do you like the SI's and MG's in comparison?

thx, -Brad-
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Mr Content
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #6 - 05/06/06 at 11:23:23
 
Hey Brad, looking forward to your impressions of these drivers. Interested in how forward the mids will be, or not be. Grin

Mr C
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Chris K
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #7 - 05/07/06 at 15:40:59
 
Hey Brad,
Yes my speaker list is growing.
While the Horns do some amazing things in imaging and midrange they are not my favorites at this point. The MG944's do just about everything right but maybe not as "clinical" as the HDT's. I do want to have HDT's in the house also. The SI co-axials are a very nice sounding speaker but I have yet to get them in baffle so there is not much I can say. Down on the floor though they cast a tall deep image/sound stage, and that makes a strong case for JohninCR's diminutive "Joint Chiefs" project. I do have another pair of prototype speakers that have the 6" Fostex drivers (2 per side) and they also have a wonderful presentation and presence that none of the other speakers have. I like em all. The Horns are for sale though. MG's and SI are keepers.
I still have a long way to go especially with my source..

BTW brad would you be kind enough to PM me (or post) the link to the case you selected for your "Charlize" amp?
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« Last Edit: 05/07/06 at 15:45:46 by Chris K »  
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gnat leader
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #8 - 05/08/06 at 05:59:36
 
I've been listening to the DFR8's with my Charlize amp connected direct to my CD player.  My TABOO and CSP is still over my friends house.  The HDT's with the DFR8 drivers still sound quite bright sounding - not very acceptable IMO.  I'll have to see how much of this is due to the sound of the Charlize, the breakin  of the DFR8 drivers, and/or what happens if I was to (1) use the TABOO instead of the Charlize, or (2) put the CSP preamp in front of the Charlize.  My impressions so far of the Charlize is that it is a brighter sounding amp than the TABOO and certainly the Zen CS. This is not unlike what I heard from the Clari-T (another Tripath chip based amp) to sound like.  This would explain why a couple people I know who like these amps have them mated to full range drivers that have a rolled off high end (IMO) due to not having a whizzer or a separate tweeter - namely the B200 and the Fostex F200A.  Keep in mind that my room is very "alive" not having allot of reflective surfaces (no carpeting  of any kind for example) so I think it's a brighter room than your average bear.

Btw, If I were you I'd build the Manowar Sonotube baffles for the SI's.  I think they look much better than the Joint Chief baffles and are much less obtrusive looking compared to large flat baffles. I can't speak to how they sound though I would imagine it's prob about the same as other similarly sized baffles...
http://www.hawthorneaudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=158
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« Last Edit: 05/08/06 at 06:38:30 by Brad »  
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gnat leader
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #9 - 05/08/06 at 06:22:24
 
Here are some DFR8 pics.
While I had the drivers out I made a small cabinet change to help reduce cabinet resonances. I added a small piece of Deflex panel dampening sheet just behind where the driver sits.  Not sure what   audible effect this really has, but it can't hurt Smiley and it only costs ~$15 for both speakers - one 12" deflex sheet cut in half.  The picture was taken before I put the foam back in place - the piece that goes just below the driver. The black gunk left over from the driver sealant/putty-stuff is easily cleaned.  Btw, my drivers didn't come with that driver sealant "rope putty" - luckily I had a couple in my box of audio junk that I never throw away.  The ribbon tweeters sitting on top of the cabinets are not hooked up.





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« Last Edit: 05/08/06 at 06:39:48 by Brad »  
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Mr Content
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #10 - 05/08/06 at 07:40:46
 
Nice pics Brad, and thanks for the first impressions. Just as a side point, You used silver hookup wire in your charlize yes? A few have noted that the silver wire is brighter than copper, with the majority feeling that copper gives a smoother sound. Smiley

Mr C
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« Last Edit: 05/08/06 at 07:41:19 by barfind »  
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Steve_Collins
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #11 - 05/08/06 at 12:19:44
 
Hi Brad
I did the foam surround mod only on the black FE206EM's about 10 days ago.
Straight back into the box I heard
1. Increased bass punch
2. The little bass bloom at 20hz ( that appears in the article graphs) is gone so that made the sound lean at the bottom. Installing the alternate tuning extension tubes bought the bass back up nicely and made the whole bass presentation much more even.
3. Good recordings are better. Bright and edgy recordings are worse
4. The lower mid-range is glass clear and more detail is apparent.
5. The upper midrange is brighter and vocal sibilance is now more pronounced. Some recordings are now borderline listenable. Getting rid of female vocal sibilance is why I got out of solid state and complex speakers.
6. The brighter sound has helped my vhf tuner which sounded a little laid back before
7. The brighter sound has not helped my njoe tjoeb when a bright cd is playing
8. I believe that the brightness has decreased about 10% since I first installed the polyether surrounds. Perhaps it will continue to improve?
9. I've tried various bits of damping around the phase plug and whizzer but they seem to affect other things so I've ended up taking them out.
10. With good source material the clarity of the new driver is very good. If you only played top notch vinyl then you'd be laughing.
11. Are they better speakers? My only concern with the HDT's has always been their amazing clarity ( It has helped me when modifying the Zen ) and slightly forward upper midrange. This is not unusual in FR drive units. Everything else about the modded drive units is better except the bright upper mid-range, which now appears much brighter.
12. All of this needs to be veiwed in the context that I installed the surrounds myself. Therefore my implemetation may have affected the result.
13. On any given day when you fire up the speakers from cold they change markedly over the first 45 mins.
14. When all is said and done these are High Definition Towers! We got what we asked for, we may not like all of it.
Cheers
Steve
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gnat leader
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #12 - 05/08/06 at 20:02:22
 
[quote author=Mr Content  link=1146262918/0#10 date=1147070446]Nice pics Brad, and thanks for the first impressions. Just as a side point, You used silver hookup wire in your charlize yes? A few have noted that the silver wire is brighter than copper, with the majority feeling that copper gives a smoother sound. Smiley

Mr C [/quote]


Yeah C, My buddy Steve and I thought about this. We have some Cardas copper litz wire on order for building the second Charlize (which we have all the parts for).  Then we will compare the two.


Steve, thanks for your feedback.  I still think that the Charlize is a big source of this brightness, and to a lesser extent, my room.  I tend to discount the room effect because when I listen near field it's even brighter!  I'll make conclusions when I get to hooking my TABOO+CSP back up.  For now, the Charlize is serving to break in both itself (it's got maybe 200 hours on it now) and the DFR8's.
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« Last Edit: 05/08/06 at 20:09:51 by Brad »  
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Mr Content
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #13 - 05/09/06 at 04:29:23
 
Get your CSP into the chain. I have mine working again, so I am listening to my charlize with tubes now. Inital impressions are a smoother presentation, but all my tube are new, so I will give it a couple of days before I listen critically Smiley

Mr C
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gnat leader
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #14 - 05/09/06 at 06:19:47
 
I'm using cryo treated Sovtek 6n1p's in my CSP. Very nice. Yeah, I gotta get my CSP back from my buddy. He lives 1.5 hours away so I haven't gotten over there.
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Mr Content
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #15 - 05/09/06 at 10:01:04
 
Thanks for that info Brad. I am going to Modd the thing, I am now developing a plan of upgrade, but I want it to include a better source switch, volume control and better RCA's, or maybe a different type of connection for the IC's. With your cap upgrade did you notice a detail level increase?

Mr C
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gnat leader
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #16 - 05/09/06 at 17:42:23
 
Yes, the Mundorfs gave a little better micro details while remaining smooth and no hint of grain/brightness.
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Mr Content
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #17 - 05/10/06 at 09:12:06
 
Thanks Brad. I will start with the caps. I stick to one thing at a time, to better gauge the improvement. Smiley

Mr C
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gnat leader
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #18 - 05/11/06 at 19:16:21
 
Madisound has some of the Mundorfs on sale now.  If you lookup my past posts (sorry have to wade through allot of them!), you will see pictures of the inside of mine with the new caps in place - may  help with positioning them.  -BB-
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Mr Content
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #19 - 05/12/06 at 08:39:16
 
Thanks for the heads up Brad. I have your pics saved already, I have been thinking this over for some time. Smiley

Mr C
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Yoda
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #20 - 05/13/06 at 03:44:42
 
I imagine that the DFR8's will take as long as the orig 206e to break in....and be very sensitive to the amp used.  

When I got my 206's two years ago, I'd turn on my tuner and amp while I was at work for 2 months.  It got better, but it wasn't until late last year that I really started to get smoother response and good bass.





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gnat leader
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #21 - 05/16/06 at 06:02:34
 
Well, the DFR8's seem to be breaking in nicely already.  Everything is slowly getting smoother and less bright.  Even with using my new chip amp.  I still haven't gotten my TABOO back to try. I'll let y'all know when I do.  Maybe this is helping the breakin though. Sometimes when I go to work I'll leave a CD playing - cranking pretty loud.  I can do this with the chip amp and don't have to worry (it runs on 12 volts) like I do with my tube gear - plus it's more than twice as much watts.
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Mr Content
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #22 - 05/16/06 at 12:57:26
 
Brad I would be interested to see what you think of the CSP/ Charlize combintation. At my place its WOW! Grin

Mr C
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gnat leader
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #23 - 05/16/06 at 22:52:34
 
Sure. Btw C, have you ever thought of adding a super-tweeter to your B200's?  I bet the Aurum Cantus G2Si ribbon tweeter I'm using would improve things for you quite a bit.
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Mr Content
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #24 - 05/17/06 at 05:37:43
 
Brad I have thought about it. I have a pair of Hiel Air motion tweets. There is only 1 song in all the songs I play, that ever has me thinking about it though. But as you say it may be of benefit. Something worth trying at some stage. Did you notice any down side to adding a tweeter to your HDT's.

Mr C
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gnat leader
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #25 - 05/17/06 at 17:43:04
 
No.  But you have to cross it high enough to keep it from messing up the main driver.  If not you're liable to get peaks in lower treble and a potentially bright sound.

Besides the obvious benefits to drum cymbols and plucked instruments I noticed a big difference on bowed instruments, particularly cello.
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RobLikesTubes
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #26 - 05/18/06 at 12:37:26
 
I have  to echo brad's sentiments  on the  Aurum Cantus ribbon. Mine  have  been in just a  hair  over a  month  now.  The only weakness I was experiencing early on (a  little too much sibilants, especially on female  vocals) has  now become very tame. Some of this may  have  been tube-related.

I  normally change  power  tubes every six months  like  clock-work, they  are  cheap  enough, and I  like's  'em  fresh.
I  had a  set  of the Russian Military  6N15Ns, and liked  them  so  much I bought a case of  50 @ $2.16/tube.

Anyway...  they  had  been in  only  about  4.5  months,  but I  had  been running them  very  hard, and  leaving the amps on constantly. A fresh set of tubes made all the difference  in the world !

I am ordering DFR8s tomorrow !   :
From the sound of the  feedback I'm  hearing, I  will be  burning  them in for some  time (good  time to  re-use the  4.5  month old  tubes).


Brad,  have  you  used the  ribbons with the  DFR8s  yet ?
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gnat leader
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #27 - 05/18/06 at 17:58:04
 
[quote author=RobLikesTubes  link=1146262918/15#26 date=1147952246]
I  had a  set  of the Russian Military  6N15Ns, and liked  them  so  much I bought a case of  50 @ $2.16/tube. [/quote]

You MUST send them in for a good Cryo treatment - it brings these tubes to a completely different level.  We did a group Cryo  buy/treatment a while back on these forums. Everyone really liked them including Steve.

Quote:
Brad,  have  you  used the  ribbons with the  DFR8s  yet ?


Yes, I have.  There is less of a need for the tweeter with the DFR8's to my ears.  The ribbon still adds something, but with the DFR8's I don't miss the tweeter when not hooked up as much as I did with the FE206EM's.  It may have to do with the fact that the DFR8's don't seem to need felt around the phase plug to mellow out brightness the way the EM's did.  

The DRF8's (and my chip amp) are breaking in nicely.  The brightness initially heard is mellowing out.  Bass is still lacking - it could be it takes longer for the surround and spider to break in.  But again, can also be largely due to my "live" room.  More time will tell.
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Mr Content
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #28 - 05/19/06 at 06:49:54
 
Next time there is a group Cryo going I be in it. Things like that in OZ are not that available. Sad

Mr C
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« Last Edit: 05/19/06 at 06:50:08 by barfind »  
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RobLikesTubes
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #29 - 05/19/06 at 12:58:30
 
[quote author=gnat leader  link=1146262918/15#27 date=1147971484] [/quote]
You MUST send them in for a good Cryo treatment - it brings these tubes to a completely different level. We did a group Cryo buy/treatment a while back on these forums. Everyone really liked them including Steve.


I have 16 of them being treated as we speak :)



Another interesting thing you might want to try:
Mount the ribbon facing the rear, and wire it out of phase.

I'm sure this 'rear ambience' effect would work better if it were mounted IN the cabinet, but I like the effect a lot.

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« Last Edit: 05/19/06 at 12:59:23 by Rob »  
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crazy bill the eel killer
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #30 - 05/19/06 at 17:07:55
 
Hello Rob,

Wait till you hear the cyroed versions. Unbelivable!!

BTW, if you don't mind, where did you source a case of fifty at that price.

Also, do you have a tube tester to match your pairs, or do you find it's not an issue.

Thanks, Bill Cheesy
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gnat leader
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #31 - 05/19/06 at 17:15:04
 
[quote author=RobLikesTubes  link=1146262918/15#29 date=1148039910]

Another interesting  thing  you  might  want to  try:  
Mount the  ribbon  facing the  rear, and  wire it out of  phase.

I'm  sure  this  'rear  ambience'  effect  would  work  better if  it  were  mounted  IN the  cabinet,  but  I  like the  effect  a lot.

[/quote]

What value cap are you using on the tweeter?
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RobLikesTubes
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #32 - 05/20/06 at 11:47:45
 
Bill...
The  seller  was the  same  one on E-bay who is  selling the  cases  of 50 on E-bay at the "buy it  now" price of $175.  
At  first  he  did  open auctions  on these  cases, and  I  lucked  out on  one that  ended at  like  3 in the  morning with only  one  bid  ahead  of  me. I  got  it  for $108

I  do  not have a  testerand  have  never  matched  tubes  in  my pair  of  Selects. It's never   been a  problem,  unless  one of the  tubes is  bad, or at  least way off  from the  other, and that  has  only  happened 2-3  times in  5  years.


Brad..
I'm  using  the  1uf Mundorf  Silver/foil from Madisound.
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gnat leader
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #33 - 05/20/06 at 19:32:16
 
That's silver foil in oil, yes? I've got some of those in my TABOO.
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gnat leader
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #34 - 05/20/06 at 19:37:05
 
[quote author=RobLikesTubes  link=1146262918/15#29 date=1148039910]
You MUST send them in for a good Cryo treatment - it brings these tubes to a completely different level.  We did a group Cryo  buy/treatment a while back on these forums. Everyone really liked them including Steve.


I  have  16 of  them  being  treated  as  we  speak  :)



Another interesting  thing  you  might  want to  try:  
Mount the  ribbon  facing the  rear, and  wire it out of  phase.

I'm  sure  this  'rear  ambience'  effect  would  work  better if  it  were  mounted  IN the  cabinet,  but  I  like the  effect  a lot.

[/quote]


Rob where are you having the Cryo done and how much is it costing you?
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RobLikesTubes
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #35 - 05/20/06 at 20:03:42
 
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gnat leader
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #36 - 05/21/06 at 07:09:04
 
My name is Gnat and I'm a tweakaholic... Smiley

I'm very happy with the sound of the DFR8's now that they are breaking/broken in.  But this came about for a different reason - I'll explain later.


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« Last Edit: 05/21/06 at 22:32:32 by Brad »  
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Mr Content
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #37 - 05/21/06 at 07:47:54
 
Wow Brad. Interesting looking. Where did you get the salad bowls  :) Come-on explain. What differences, what about dispertion? ???  ;D

Mr C
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Rap
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #38 - 05/21/06 at 08:35:07
 
Wow, That will have increased the sensetivety by a few db ??? How dose it sound?
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gnat leader
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #39 - 05/21/06 at 09:23:06
 
It sounds great!  A little more efficient, more midrange detail (as if there wasn't enough already!) while still sounding smooth and not bright, midrange is more "juicy" for lack of a better word, and a hair better bass. Only downside I can see so far is you lose allot when not seated unless you're clear accross the room.  Putting something under the fronts to tilt them back could help that.

While these are not large enough for a "true front bass horn" I think they are helping the mids my compensating for some baffle step loss.
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« Last Edit: 05/21/06 at 09:24:43 by Brad »  
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gnat leader
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #40 - 05/21/06 at 09:29:44
 
C, you caught me! Smiley  The things just happened to have exactly an 8" diameter bass and a curved profile similar to a horn.  And they cost $20 each!...




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« Last Edit: 05/21/06 at 09:45:22 by Brad »  
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gnat leader
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #41 - 05/21/06 at 09:54:09
 
The "Target bowl" tweak is reversible/non-permanant. I used double sided aggressive out-door tape (the kind to stick address letters on a house) to affix them.

Btw, you might think I'm goofy, but this really does improve the midrange quality and "juicy tone".  I'd love for somebody with a less live (better treated) room to try this and let us know how it sounds - especially the imaging.  For me I don't lose anything, but my room is not the best for discerning imaging details.




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« Last Edit: 05/21/06 at 10:04:13 by Brad »  
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gnat leader
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #42 - 05/21/06 at 10:11:10
 
Bottom line is I was walking through Target the other day and when I spotted these bowls, I thought... hmmm... interesing profile... and man that diameter looks close.  Then when I grabbed a tape measure and saw it was 8" I had to take one home to try out.  I cut the bottom out with a razor knife, and listened to it on just one speaker, listening mono, and switching back forth to compare to the other without the bowl.  Things sounded promising and I didn't hear any major problems, so I bought another bowl to audition in stereo.  Well, I don't think I'll be pulling the bowls off any time soon - except maybe to silicon them in place permanently.

I'm lovin' it even with my Charlize chip amp.  I'm really chompin' at the bit to get my TABOO and CSP back from my friend!!!

One of those accidental discoveries.  :)
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« Last Edit: 05/21/06 at 22:22:19 by Brad »  
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Mr Content
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #43 - 05/21/06 at 11:08:20
 
I am game to try it. I will see if Target in Oz carries them. If not I will have to get you to post a couple over to me Brad.
Its a great hobby, lots of things we can try. Grin

Mr C
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Rap
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #44 - 05/21/06 at 12:41:23
 
Nice ,creative, find Brad Grin .
Ill have to see if I can find something simmilar here In Belgium to try on my HDTs Thanks for heads up.
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gnat leader
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #45 - 05/21/06 at 17:36:16
 
C, sure I can send you a couple if you can't find them over there.
But what is the size of your OB?  If they are pretty wide/big, you might not hear much of a difference with the TB's.  Unless there really is some horn action going on.  But even if that's the case, they are too small to be adding much bass, so It's a crapshoot if they will make things sound better or not.  In any event, they're cheap enough to try just as a fun experiment.
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Mr Content
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #46 - 05/21/06 at 21:30:23
 
Thing is Brad, you just never know. But as you say it is cheap enough to try. Smiley Thanks for the offer to send them over, I will look today for something the same or like it. Grin

Mr C
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gnat leader
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #47 - 05/21/06 at 22:14:28
 
You may already know this... ideally you want curved walls not straight. I think you can get honky/resonances with linear "horn" walls or walls curved the wrong way (bowl as apposed to bell shaped).  

Btw, this should be a separate thread. Really not specific to DFR8 drivers.

cheers, -Brad-
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« Last Edit: 05/22/06 at 18:50:31 by Brad »  
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Re: DFR8's
Reply #48 - 05/22/06 at 18:51:24
 
Don't bother searching for it online. It's not there.  I called Target and it cannot be purchased on their website or by phone. Go figure!  It *is* sold in all their stores under the name Zazen bamboo tray.  Target also does not ship internationally - unfortunately.  

Btw, the bowl bases can varry in diameter as much as 1/8".
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« Last Edit: 05/22/06 at 20:10:29 by Brad »  
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Re: DFR8's --> Steve, where's my commission?
Reply #49 - 06/12/06 at 07:26:03
 
Well, I may have unintentionally just sold a pair of HDT's for Steve and possible and CSP to boot.  Steve, where my commision? Wink

My buddy Steve and I had a mini listening session. He already had my CSP hooked up to his Art Audio Carissa amp. I brought my HDT's over his place today and left the for a while.  We gave a listen to a few disks on different combination of equipment.  The disks were good quality recordings, not awesome, but just good.  I forget the album names but Steve pulled out Natilie Merchant, Aimee Mann, while I had brought some of my current favorite Marcio Faraco (Brazilian jazz) 'cause I thought Steve would like him, which he did.  We had limited time so we focused on changes in equipment and listening mostly to Faraco.  Equipment listened to:

Speakers: Decware HDT, Reference 3A Royal Virtuoso
Amps: Art Audio Carissa, Decware TABOO, Charlize DIY chip amp
Preamp: Decware CSP
Source: Sony 9000ES w/Modwright mods
cabling: All cables were expensive looking snake-like beasts - I didn't enquire about their brands.
Room: No treatments, approx 15'x15', listening at approx 8' triangle, toe'd in pretty much directly at the listener.

Sorry for the quality. I snapped them with my phone... thought some of you might find them interesting...













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