The sensitivity rating by itself simply means the speaker is a bit less loud at any given power level.  That's all it means and you cannot make any guesses as to good or bad sound based on this spec alone.

Here's another bit to think about.  Any audiophile will tell you that the proper sub level is barely on at all.

Start by listening to the mains.  Slowly turn up the sub gain until you barely hear it making any sound.  Then turn it down a notch and that's your sub level.

I would not consider myself an audiophile and those levels are a bit too low for me, but try it and you might notice that the muddy sound your are describing is just way too much bass.

By the way, if your box is aligned exactly the way John told you, it should start getting strong around 40 hz  (on a downward sine sweep) and be satisfying down to at least 20 hz.  Are you sure it's exactly the way John told you?

60, I don't disagree with a single thing you said this time.  But you are neglecting a few points that we have made.

Not every sub is ideal for every purpose.  For example, the low tuned subs we are planning would absolutely suck where the HWK excells.  Even more to the point, your HWK measures completely different in the garden than it does in the corner of a small room.  Don't tell me it doesn't, unless you live in some other dimension.

The proposed other solutions (EBS ported and huge bandpass) are also tried and true options, they just weren't offered as plans by Steve.  The only product in the Decware lineup that is going to do what Bob wants is the imperial SO, that's just the way it is.

And furthering your alalogy of airplanes, a stealth bomber is not going to help you much if your need is really for a passenger jet.  (Notice I equated the HWK with a stealth bomber just to make you happy.)

By the way, I would encourage you to measure again.  Unless you have an Imperial SO, I doubt very much anything you have built is hitting 20 hz flat.  They just simply were not designed to do that.  What you just described in your HWK assessment is an F3 at 23 hz.  We are talking about F3's below 15, which may not seem to be an incredible difference until you look at the exponential nature of the FR line.  To be fair, I have only tried a WO and Imperial, both with inadequate drivers, but common sense tells you that you need bigger boxes and lower fs drivers to do 20 hz flat.  The only reason the Imperial SO is flat at 20 hz (as it is theoretically too small as well) is that Steve is ingenius in his designs, no one is disputing that at all.

By the way 60, --"bass, the final frontier!"?

Do you really mean it?

Bob

[quote author=bassboy  link=1145573673/195#200 date=1149620270]60, I don't disagree with a single thing you said this time.  But you are neglecting a few points that we have made.

Not every sub is ideal for every purpose.  For example, the low tuned subs we are planning would absolutely suck where the HWK excells.  Even more to the point, your HWK measures completely different in the garden than it does in the corner of a small room.  Don't tell me it doesn't, unless you live in some other dimension.

The proposed other solutions (EBS ported and huge bandpass) are also tried and true options, they just weren't offered as plans by Steve.  The only product in the Decware lineup that is going to do what Bob wants is the imperial SO, that's just the way it is.

And furthering your alalogy of airplanes, a stealth bomber is not going to help you much if your need is really for a passenger jet.  (Notice I equated the HWK with a stealth bomber just to make you happy.)

By the way, I would encourage you to measure again.  Unless you have an Imperial SO, I doubt very much anything you have built is hitting 20 hz flat.  They just simply were not designed to do that.  What you just described in your HWK assessment is an F3 at 23 hz.  We are talking about F3's below 15, which may not seem to be an incredible difference until you look at the exponential nature of the FR line.  To be fair, I have only tried a WO and Imperial, both with inadequate drivers, but common sense tells you that you need bigger boxes and lower fs drivers to do 20 hz flat.  The only reason the Imperial SO is flat at 20 hz (as it is theoretically too small as well) is that Steve is ingenius in his designs, no one is disputing that at all. [/quote]

Using musical instrument woofers (ex. PEAVEY BLACK WIDOW) you get tight full accurate bass from 200 down to 40 HZ. Using subwoofers you get big warm full bass that can on command create Subsonic pressures lower than 20 cycles.  
???

Where in there does it say it's flat to 20 hz?  My imperial is flat to 40 hz, but you better believe it can create subsonic pressures lower than 20 cycles.  Let's see some FR graphs, please.  With real drivers in real conditions, please.  I don't post pictures, but if you want, I will gladly link to a spot showing a FR graph of my current unfinished (almost unstarted) project, clearly showing predicted response flat to about 18 hz in a box which is probably smaller than the HWK (but I assume not capable of anywhere near the brute SPL).  That's using the Dayton Quatro, the Series II's 4 ohm brother.  And that's before I start modding it Jensen style for a killer low end.

Measure your box, my friend, get out your meter and do some charting but be sure to mention where it was measured - outside, small room, corner loading, etc.  I'll guarantee both our boxes will sound good, so the differences will be pure SPL and FR.  You have chosen higher tuning and higher SPL, I choose lower tuning and lower SPL.  (Although I'm hoping for 95 db at 1 watt, shouldn't too far from yours)

Nice yard, VERY nice fence!

Do your ears fall off below,.... um... ?? How low?   ???

Bob

Ok bassboy, way back on post #201.
Does that give you the information you need?

J_Rock, I've heard (no pun intended) that humans can hear down to 20 just like you have heard (ok, pun intended that time) but I agree with you, that we can hear well down into the teens.

Bob