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hz numbers on a 15" 2 driver (Read 39701 times)
bassboy
Ex Member



Re: hz numbers on a 15" 2 driver
Reply #195 - 06/06/06 at 16:39:09
 
The sensitivity rating by itself simply means the speaker is a bit less loud at any given power level.  That's all it means and you cannot make any guesses as to good or bad sound based on this spec alone.
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Bob in St. Louis
Ex Member



Re: hz numbers on a 15" 2 driver
Reply #196 - 06/06/06 at 16:48:51
 
Thanks bassboy, and here I thought I'd make it through the day without learning anything!  :)

Bob
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bassboy
Ex Member



Re: hz numbers on a 15" 2 driver
Reply #197 - 06/06/06 at 17:54:08
 
Here's another bit to think about.  Any audiophile will tell you that the proper sub level is barely on at all.

Start by listening to the mains.  Slowly turn up the sub gain until you barely hear it making any sound.  Then turn it down a notch and that's your sub level.

I would not consider myself an audiophile and those levels are a bit too low for me, but try it and you might notice that the muddy sound your are describing is just way too much bass.

By the way, if your box is aligned exactly the way John told you, it should start getting strong around 40 hz  (on a downward sine sweep) and be satisfying down to at least 20 hz.  Are you sure it's exactly the way John told you?
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« Last Edit: 06/06/06 at 17:55:28 by bassboy »  
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60ndown
Ex Member



Re: hz numbers on a 15" 2 driver
Reply #198 - 06/06/06 at 19:35:50
 
the thing is for me fellas, that of everyone that posts here i believe steve deckert is the most knowledgable. he has been designing and building for a long time (and not part time), i have built several of his designs (not modded) and they all did exactly what he said they would , basically flat to 20 hz and excellent sq, i have a test disk and there is very little, if any drop off until about 23hz? in my hwk, i have had it in many different positions (includeing the garden Smiley) and all it does is produce 'gobs' of great bass. i know from your posts that you all understand audio better than me, so i cant argue any specific points, but lets say this, if i had to build an aeroplane and actuallyfly in it), i wouldnt try to modd one, i would build a tried and trusted desighn that had carried many people many miles many times, and returned them to ground safely. which i believe is exactly what steve offers in his plans Wink ....except obviously his subs dont fly, but apparently they can 'levitate' rugs!
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« Last Edit: 06/06/06 at 19:36:26 by 60ndown »  
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bassboy
Ex Member



Re: hz numbers on a 15" 2 driver
Reply #199 - 06/06/06 at 19:57:50
 
60, I don't disagree with a single thing you said this time.  But you are neglecting a few points that we have made.

Not every sub is ideal for every purpose.  For example, the low tuned subs we are planning would absolutely suck where the HWK excells.  Even more to the point, your HWK measures completely different in the garden than it does in the corner of a small room.  Don't tell me it doesn't, unless you live in some other dimension.

The proposed other solutions (EBS ported and huge bandpass) are also tried and true options, they just weren't offered as plans by Steve.  The only product in the Decware lineup that is going to do what Bob wants is the imperial SO, that's just the way it is.

And furthering your alalogy of airplanes, a stealth bomber is not going to help you much if your need is really for a passenger jet.  (Notice I equated the HWK with a stealth bomber just to make you happy.)

By the way, I would encourage you to measure again.  Unless you have an Imperial SO, I doubt very much anything you have built is hitting 20 hz flat.  They just simply were not designed to do that.  What you just described in your HWK assessment is an F3 at 23 hz.  We are talking about F3's below 15, which may not seem to be an incredible difference until you look at the exponential nature of the FR line.  To be fair, I have only tried a WO and Imperial, both with inadequate drivers, but common sense tells you that you need bigger boxes and lower fs drivers to do 20 hz flat.  The only reason the Imperial SO is flat at 20 hz (as it is theoretically too small as well) is that Steve is ingenius in his designs, no one is disputing that at all.
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« Last Edit: 06/06/06 at 20:08:40 by bassboy »  
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Bob in St. Louis
Ex Member



Re: hz numbers on a 15" 2 driver
Reply #200 - 06/06/06 at 20:42:39
 
OK bassboy, John gave me a couple ideas, we're trying the small/easy/cheap version first. If memory serves, here's the current configuration;
One hole is closed
Other enlarged to fit 4" PVC, I think it's 17" long
Drivers clamshelled in/on top baffle
Drivers out of phase
Amp is bridged (900W)
Top lid off, then on, then off, now it's on.

You know 60, I saw your mug on the other post. It's scary how much we look alike.

Bob
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Bob in St. Louis
Ex Member



Re: hz numbers on a 15" 2 driver
Reply #201 - 06/06/06 at 20:50:22
 
By the way 60, --"bass, the final frontier!"?

Do you really mean it?

Bob
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60ndown
Ex Member



Re: hz numbers on a 15" 2 driver
Reply #202 - 06/06/06 at 21:01:36
 
[quote author=Bob in St. Louis  link=1145573673/195#202 date=1149623422]By the way 60, --"bass, the final frontier!"?

Do you really mean it?

Bob [/quote]

its a play on words with startreck (1st series) and my love of bass Wink

"captins log......etc etc.........................."
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60ndown
Ex Member



Re: hz numbers on a 15" 2 driver
Reply #203 - 06/06/06 at 21:04:50
 
[quote author=bassboy  link=1145573673/195#200 date=1149620270]60, I don't disagree with a single thing you said this time.  But you are neglecting a few points that we have made.

Not every sub is ideal for every purpose.  For example, the low tuned subs we are planning would absolutely suck where the HWK excells.  Even more to the point, your HWK measures completely different in the garden than it does in the corner of a small room.  Don't tell me it doesn't, unless you live in some other dimension.

The proposed other solutions (EBS ported and huge bandpass) are also tried and true options, they just weren't offered as plans by Steve.  The only product in the Decware lineup that is going to do what Bob wants is the imperial SO, that's just the way it is.

And furthering your alalogy of airplanes, a stealth bomber is not going to help you much if your need is really for a passenger jet.  (Notice I equated the HWK with a stealth bomber just to make you happy.)

By the way, I would encourage you to measure again.  Unless you have an Imperial SO, I doubt very much anything you have built is hitting 20 hz flat.  They just simply were not designed to do that.  What you just described in your HWK assessment is an F3 at 23 hz.  We are talking about F3's below 15, which may not seem to be an incredible difference until you look at the exponential nature of the FR line.  To be fair, I have only tried a WO and Imperial, both with inadequate drivers, but common sense tells you that you need bigger boxes and lower fs drivers to do 20 hz flat.  The only reason the Imperial SO is flat at 20 hz (as it is theoretically too small as well) is that Steve is ingenius in his designs, no one is disputing that at all. [/quote]

Using musical instrument woofers (ex. PEAVEY BLACK WIDOW) you get tight full accurate bass from 200 down to 40 HZ. Using subwoofers you get big warm full bass that can on command create Subsonic pressures lower than 20 cycles.  
??? Roll Eyes Cheesy Grin Wink Kiss Embarrassed
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Bob in St. Louis
Ex Member



Re: hz numbers on a 15" 2 driver
Reply #204 - 06/06/06 at 21:23:43
 
60, I was trying to ---  :-* --- with the 'frontier' comment, you didn't fall for it.  :)

I've quoted that very same line directly from the "pretty picture page" of the housewrecker ad.

It's been shot down many times. much to my dismay.
Steve hasn't devulged [sp] how he got there from here.  :'(

You never answered my question about your HWK and the critters.
You got pics yet of the landscape ?

Bob
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bassboy
Ex Member



Re: hz numbers on a 15" 2 driver
Reply #205 - 06/06/06 at 21:32:42
 
Where in there does it say it's flat to 20 hz?  My imperial is flat to 40 hz, but you better believe it can create subsonic pressures lower than 20 cycles.  Let's see some FR graphs, please.  With real drivers in real conditions, please.  I don't post pictures, but if you want, I will gladly link to a spot showing a FR graph of my current unfinished (almost unstarted) project, clearly showing predicted response flat to about 18 hz in a box which is probably smaller than the HWK (but I assume not capable of anywhere near the brute SPL).  That's using the Dayton Quatro, the Series II's 4 ohm brother.  And that's before I start modding it Jensen style for a killer low end.

Measure your box, my friend, get out your meter and do some charting but be sure to mention where it was measured - outside, small room, corner loading, etc.  I'll guarantee both our boxes will sound good, so the differences will be pure SPL and FR.  You have chosen higher tuning and higher SPL, I choose lower tuning and lower SPL.  (Although I'm hoping for 95 db at 1 watt, shouldn't too far from yours)
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60ndown
Ex Member



Re: hz numbers on a 15" 2 driver
Reply #206 - 06/06/06 at 22:01:30
 
my only measureing tools are my ears, what critters?

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Bob in St. Louis
Ex Member



Re: hz numbers on a 15" 2 driver
Reply #207 - 06/06/06 at 22:06:49
 
Nice yard, VERY nice fence!

Do your ears fall off below,.... um... ?? How low?   ???

Bob
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J_Rock
Ex Member



Re: hz numbers on a 15" 2 driver
Reply #208 - 06/06/06 at 22:11:13
 
research normally says 20hz.  But I feel (after reading some articles on ultra low high SPL sound, that we can hear below that.  It's just that our sensitivty to these sounds drop off at such a large rate, the sound level required for us to HEAR 15 hz is extremely high.  Normally we feel these sounds before we hear them.

An excellent example would be the large Barges that float down the Mississippi nearby.  When I am laying in bed at night I can hear them.  And while I listen I can count the peaks in the sound.  The frequency basically.  Now wether this is the beat effect or actually a wave I am hearing is still to be known...
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Bob in St. Louis
Ex Member



Re: hz numbers on a 15" 2 driver
Reply #209 - 06/06/06 at 22:17:21
 
Ok bassboy, way back on post #201.
Does that give you the information you need?

J_Rock, I've heard (no pun intended) that humans can hear down to 20 just like you have heard (ok, pun intended that time) but I agree with you, that we can hear well down into the teens.

Bob
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