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HDT  1.5s?!?! (Read 3645 times)
RobLikesTubes
Ex Member



HDT  1.5s?!?!
04/14/06 at 12:42:13
 
After  a  bunch of  pondering, I  decided to  take  a  small, reversible  plunge and  purchase a  pair  of  the  Aurum Cantus  G2Si  ribbon  tweeter to  add  to the  HDT  via  Brad's  suggestion.




They  arrived  Tuesday  morning, and I  wired them up with 1uf Mondorf caps in parallel using  just-long-enough  Teflon coated pure  silver  hook-up  wire. They are  mounted  on the  front  edge  of the HDTs  for now  using  heavy-duty Velcro  strips cut to  size. I  ran them for 5hrs on/5hrs off all of  tuesday  afternoon, all day wednesday, and  most  of yesterday.  Last  night I  settled-in for  some listening.

I wasn't  sure  exactly  what to expect,  and tried to  keep  my  expectations  at reasonable  levels,  even preparing  myself  to  be slightly  disappointed  if  results were  such.

I  am  happy to  report  that I  am  very, very, pleased  with the  results !!   Thanks  Brad !

What  I  was  hoping  for  was that little extra  extension on the  top, primarily for  cymbals, other percussion, and that  gleam on the  top  end  of  acoustic  guitar  and  wind  instruments, and  incidental  sibilants. Things  that  I  know  had  been  audibly  absent  from a  lot of  recordings I  am intimately  familiar  with. This  tweeter  delivers  that nicely, realistically, and  cleanly.

What I  wasn't  expecting  was  how  well they  would  integrate with the  HDT  particularly  in the  imaging  department.

I  am a  drummer, and  have a thing  for  well recorded kits. Not  that the  HDTs didn't  do a  good  job  on their  own, it's  just  that the placement in the  soundstage of  various cymbals  and  effects  always  seemed a little off to  me - they  tended to  either  be  pushed a little  too  close  to  the  speakers  themselves, or,  when  having a  good  center  image,  didn't  appear  where they  should  in height/depth.

With these tweeters,  drummers  who I  am  very  familiar with  their  set-ups,  are just  right.  Hi-hats appear  just  right of  center, and  you  can  feel the  space  between the  hi-hat  and  snare. On a  drummer  like  Carter  Beauford  from  Dave  Matthews Band(who has a  large kit with tons of  cymbals)  each  one appears in the  soundstage
as it  does  on  his  kit.  He plays  left-handed  on a  kit  oriented  right-handed.  He  uses two ride  cymbals mounted  to  his  left, and  pretty high up.   I  can  now  sense that  height and  space  perfectly in relation  to the  rest  of  his  kit, where  previously, those  parts  were  not  nearly as  well defined.  The  sound/feel of  wood  stick hitting metal  cymbal is much  more  defined and  stunningly  real.

Other  recordings that  had things  like  triangles,  bells, etc.. that were always very  harsh  with  previous  dome  tweeters, and  rather  understated(and in some  cases barely  audible)
on the  HDTs  alone,  are  now  "there" - but  in a  very  clean and  realistic sounding portrayal.

For  under  $200, this  is  a  killer, and  completely  reversible  tweak. I  am  sure I  will be  experimenting  with  some placement options. I  recently heard a homemade pair of speakers  using a full-ranger and a similar tweeter  in a  rear-ambience configuration that  was pretty  impressive.

I  am  still planning on getting  a pair of the  new  DFR8s for  comparison to  the  original  Fostex, and  see if  the 2GSi is  needed.

So far, the  only  drawback I've  experienced is a little harshness/over-emphasized "sss"ibilants on  some  female  vocals. Some of this may  still be  break-in of the  tweeters and  caps, and if  not,  the  benefits I  am  getting so far  outweigh that minor draw-back.

Highly  recommended !!

So,  do  we  call this a  HDT  1.5 ?    ???

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Zygi
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Re: HDT  1.5s?!?!
Reply #1 - 04/14/06 at 14:09:58
 
Rob,


I believe a whizzer-less dfr-8 and the Aurum Cantus with a 1mF cap would be perfect. Not that might be a HDT1.5


   BobZ
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« Last Edit: 04/14/06 at 14:10:49 by ZYGI »  
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RobLikesTubes
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Re: HDT  1.5s?!?!
Reply #2 - 04/14/06 at 14:20:00
 
Sounds  like a  plan !

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gnat leader
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Re: HDT  1.5s?!?!
Reply #3 - 04/14/06 at 18:18:50
 
Rob, I found the G2Si's to be slightly bright/grainy at first but this mellowed out and became more smooth over time.  I'm glad you like them, and at least it confirms what I'm hearing.  You certainly are better at verbalizing it given your knowledge as a drummer/musician.

Have you noticed how much better a bowed instrument sounds?  I found Cello's (amoung other things) to sound way more realistic with this tweeter added to the HDT.
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« Last Edit: 04/15/06 at 02:28:37 by Brad »  
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gnat leader
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Re: HDT  1.5s?!?!
Reply #4 - 04/14/06 at 18:25:09
 
Btw, Zygi, if you ever end up making a HDT 1.5 you should investigate the potential of using bamboo ply - or at least bamboo veneer.  I'm not sure how much it costs, but it looks pretty cool and it's as hard as maple...

http://www.plyboo.com

I prob couldn't afford the expresso machine...--->  ;-)


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« Last Edit: 04/15/06 at 02:31:37 by Brad »  
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gnat leader
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Re: HDT  1.5s?!?!
Reply #5 - 04/15/06 at 02:35:09
 
[quote author=Zygi  link=1145018533/0#1 date=1145020198]Rob,


I believe a whizzer-less dfr-8 and the Aurum Cantus with a 1mF cap would be perfect. Not that might be a HDT1.5


   BobZ [/quote]


Zygi, what makes you think this?  Have you ever removed a whizzer?  I have no idea what to expect in change of frequency response when this is done. Do you know what frequency range is being produced by the whizzer as apposed to the main cone?  Now that's a scary non-reversible mod!!!
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« Last Edit: 04/15/06 at 02:35:56 by Brad »  
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Zygi
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Re: HDT  1.5s?!?!
Reply #6 - 04/15/06 at 03:56:00
 
Brad,

   Its scarry for sure, I haven't tried it on the 8" , I have on the 6 1/2" and it worked very good. The reason I think it should be removed is phasing/ cancellation and two sources of highs can screw with the imaging. Sense I haven't tried it with the 8" (yet) one way to check is to squat down then slowly stand up, if its an issue you'll hear the cancellation, if you don't hear any change, then it should be ok.

 Brad try the bambo and let me know how you like it, It is very tough and hard, I thought I saw a close up of it, if it would take a a dye it could be made to look like Macassar Ebony.

Bobz
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« Last Edit: 04/15/06 at 04:02:44 by ZYGI »  
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gnat leader
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Re: HDT  1.5s?!?!
Reply #7 - 04/15/06 at 05:09:54
 
Zygi, what were the details you doing the whizzer-ectomy? You did it to a 6" fostex? And put it in which cabinet? And combined it with what tweeter crossed over how? Just curious. thx, -Brad-

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Zygi
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Re: HDT  1.5s?!?!
Reply #8 - 04/15/06 at 07:07:47
 
Brad,

No tweeter, another 6 1/2' with whizzer intact. No crossover other than mechanical.

Bobz
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« Last Edit: 04/15/06 at 07:09:17 by ZYGI »  
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Chris K
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Re: HDT  1.5s?!?!
Reply #9 - 04/15/06 at 13:40:00
 
[quote author=Zygi  link=1145018533/0#8 date=1145081267]Brad,

No tweeter, another 6 1/2' with whizzer intact. No crossover other than mechanical.

Bobz [/quote]

Smiley
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RobLikesTubes
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Re: HDT  1.5s?!?!
Reply #10 - 04/15/06 at 18:02:43
 
hmmm, perhaps I'll order the DFR8s, and  when they arrive send  back  the  original 206Es  for donut modification and  wizzerectomy.  By the  time  they  return, the  DFR8s  should  be  well  broken-in, and I  can  determine  if the  DFR8 stock alone is the  ticket, or  to  send  them  in to  be  nuetered..
???
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RobLikesTubes
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Re: HDT  1.5s?!?!
Reply #11 - 04/25/06 at 22:22:16
 
Well, the Aurum Canti  have  been in place for  almost  two  weeks at this  point. I  installed  them using a  pair of banana adapters with screw terminals for easy plug-in/un-plug to  compare with  and  without.

After listening to over 100 favorite recordings both with, and without ........they are  staying.

I'm ordering the  DFR8s this week, and  will send the  original FE206Es  for  DFR8-i-fication and  whizzerectomy........

Stay  tuned..................
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Brian
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Re: HDT  1.5s?!?!
Reply #12 - 04/26/06 at 02:27:46
 
Exciting stuff!  When the DFR8s are used without their whizzers, will they be used with the Decware phase guide?  It seems to be a kind of resonant tweeter, so I would guess it shall not be used.
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Zygi
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Re: HDT  1.5s?!?!
Reply #13 - 04/27/06 at 05:00:54
 
Rob, Brian,

  Iv'e never done the whizzerectomy on the 206's or the DFR8's. I've only done it to the 166's

   I think if you sent them to Steve for an ectomy he'd probably wonder what the hell you were talking about.

 The main reason I did the whizzerectomy on the 166's was I was going to tear them down to make a radial driver out of them, Steve with his infinate wisdom told me to experiemnt with them as I was tearing them down. Thats were the idea of the egg shaped holes in the whizzer came from, which I then tried removing the whizzer all together, I have done 12 drivers so far, all still sound great. I have not gotten to try it as a radial driver yet. I did about a year ago cut down the 206 driver and madea radial out of it.  96dB of pure YUK!!!  That was money and time well spent.

BobZ
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franksmith
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Re: HDT  1.5s?!?!
Reply #14 - 05/01/06 at 21:04:42
 
I'm about to do a wizerectomy on a new pair of fe206e and see the change it could produce.

Since I'm using a tweeter to complete the fe206em (almost a dfr-8) I can easily change the crossing point to compensate for the wizzerless driver.

Please let us know the results of the operation Smiley
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